The Wrestling Thread is now nothing but recaps from last week - Part 71

[Metallo]

Fora while. Especially since he came to WWE and started using the hold on larger guys. When you see him wrestle someone smaller it sometimes looks more like the classic Liontamer/Walls of Jericho positioning.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Bryans a better TALKER? No way. Bryan's a better wrestler but Christian has always had a stronger gift of gab and humor and lets be honest in WWE world that matters more. Has for almost 30 years. Each has a strength over the other but as an overall package they've both had their detractors. As total packages its not very easy to say one is better than the other when one does something better than the other.

The thing thats held Bryan and Christian back more than anything and been percieved as their biggest weakness are their "looks"/builds/physique. Thats the biggest reason people have said they wouldn't make it. Its the same thing thats always said. Its the same thing that was said about Cody Rhodes early on.

When Bryan and Christian did get shots with main event gold they both delivered pretty well.

I've watched Christian over his entire WWF/E career, and he has never (e-e-evarr!) had the crowd chanting with him DURING a match. On a pure promo level, I'd still give a slight edge to Bryan, just because he's had a more established solo character to work from.

But in terms of working ability, no contest, Bryan is better. I like Christian, but he's too small to be a big man, but doesn't have the innovative move set a small man should have. He's kind of stuck in the middle zone there, kind of like Matt Hardy without the self-destructive behaviour.

 

[TX85]

I thought Piper did great last night But of course Vince didn't like it and had Cole keep bashing the segment

 

[Metallo]

I've watched Christian over his entire WWF/E career, and he has never (e-e-evarr!) had the crowd chanting with him DURING a match. On a pure promo level, I'd still give a slight edge to Bryan, just because he's had a more established solo character to work from.

But in terms of working ability, no contest, Bryan is better. I like Christian, but he's too small to be a big man, but doesn't have the innovative move set a small man should have. He's kind of stuck in the middle zone there, kind of like Matt Hardy without the self-destructive behaviour.

I've also watched Christian over his entire WWE career. What you say is because he never had a catchphrase as simple and over as The Yes but I've seen Christian get pops BIGGER than Bryans in general. When people thought he was going to win MITB one year they went apesh**. Before he left for TNA he was getting really good reactions but WWE made sure they snuffed that.

Bryan also never had to deal with being marginalized and having his credibility damaged for NEARLY as long as Christian did. You aren't giving the whole story when you leave things like that out.

Bryans good on the mic, better than people give him credit for, but Christian has always been funnier and more versatile.

Another thing that helps Bryan is that he got a better run with the WHC, something that was beyond both mens control. Christian had a great couple of runs against Mark Henry with the ECW title and WHC but he never got put into the mix with someone like Punk during his title run they way Bryan has in the main event. Bryan was also lucky enough to get wrapped up in the whole AJ fiasco when it really took off. She's helped the YES as much as he did and ones heat fed the other. Opportunities count for a lot. Christian was wrapped up with Del Rio...who he made look MUCH better than he was...but Del Taco isn't close to being a CM Punk or even a Dolph Ziggler (in the ring).

But now if Bryans so much better why is he beginning to see the same problems Christian is/was seeing? He's slipping down the card and McMahon isn't putting him over people that REALLY matter. Exact same problems. Its like Hunter said he's a better wrestler but you aren't going to see him tap someone that really matters. They have some of the same problems: McMahons perceptions.

 

[Superark]

www.pwinsider.com

ANGLE VS. PUNK?
by Mike Johnson @ 1:19 PM on 8/14/2012

Kurt Angle, taking issue with CM Punk referring to TNA as an indy company during a Q&A at the Wizardworld Chicago event, responded via Twitter:


"Punk wants to say TNA is an indy league? I was on top in WWE when you were trying to get a job anywhere. It was my choice to go to TNA. If I ever see you, Punk, hide, *****."

Of course, Angle has a history of "out there" statements on his Twitter, including a recent claim he would be included in the WWE '13 videogame, which he later backed off of.


FOLLOWING TWITTER OUTBURST, WWE HOLDS TALENT MEETING
by Mike Johnson @ 1:41 PM on 8/14/2012

In what I was told was a direct response to JTG ranting on Twitter about how he and other WWE talents are disrespected, WWE had a talent meeting last night offering the chance for anyone who was unhappy and had an issue to speak up and air their grievances.

I was told that no one spoke up, although as one wrestler joked today, "They just fired Abraham Washington and then ask us to speak up in front of the locker room. We may as well ask to be released!"

During the meeting, WWE officials reminded talents that they needed to handle themselves professionally via social media and to remember that what they say will be monitored by the media as well as the public.

More than a few wrestlers privately noted that just a week after he ranted, JTG was used on Raw for the first time in quite awhile.

One of the reasons some of the mid-card wrestlers were upset were recent payouts for international tours and Wrestlemania. In the case of Wrestlemania, a number of mid-card talents were upset that the payouts were only a few thousand. However, these were talents who weren't performing on the show. One wrestler pointed out that they were still utilized over the course of Mania week, but at the same time, WWE covered all the hotel and travel costs that week. So, it has to be put in perspective.

There were also some upset about international tour pay-offs, but at least one wrestler was told a clerical error was made due to the international exchange used and that situation was going to be cleared up in the next few weeks.


JBL UPDATE
by Mike Johnson @ 1:47 PM on 8/14/2012

As we mentioned last week in the PWInsider.com Elite section, there has been discussions between JBL and WWE about JBL returning in some capacity, most likely as an announcer.

 

[Metallo]

Oh Kurt... Not that I totally disagree with how he feels. I can see where he's coming from...but he's taking it too personally.

As for the talent meeting...it sounds like a joke. You speak up and you are punished. Nobody would have dared say anything. JTG could have been more private with his problems with management but its still bizarro land in WWE behind the scenes. Even if he'd done it behind closed doors I doubt he'd be taken seriously and certainly not be commended or anything.

Please JBL, please come back. Smackdown needs you.

 

[Darkness Falls]

i must admit i laughed at the ending of raw
those poor kids crying and screaming at brock to let shawn go

 

[TX85]

Undertaker's Streak dvd is good But I'd love to have a new dvd about his career when he retires and hopefully it has him talking in a documentary out of character,I want to see&hear him talk about his life/getting into wrestling/being in WCW as"Mean Mark"/The Undertaker characters/Being with Michel Mccool/WWE/Paul Bearer/etc!!

 

[Metallo]

Ditto. As much as he's kayfabes up by WWE you NEVER hear them talking about his entire career. As close as we got to seeing the real man was when he was doing the biker gimmick.

 

[TX85]

Yeah he's done a few interviews and even been on talk shows..But only when he was ABA Taker,He doesn't even show up at the HOF and events like Fan Axxess during Summerslam&WM weekends just to be in character!!

Kane did it when he was under his old mask and stayed in character yet made it work where he could be at Fan Axxess events LOL!..

[YT]feRKgN6yTec[/YT]

 

[Herolee10]

Regarding Christian's popularity at its highest, I remember on how well he was received during one RAW back in Canada (right before Cena had been drafted to Raw for the first time) and how he took shots at Cena's rapping, along with giving a great promo, which resulted in the crowd LOUDLY cheering for him.

Overall, I think the guy has potential and could have been more had the WWE allowed him to be.

Frankly, what's sad is that WWE is exactly what WCW was back in the years in terms of how badly it's run.

If another wrestling organization was able to rise up and threaten it, then it'd probably shake them out of this bad funk

 

[Pink Ranger]

Regarding Christian's popularity at its highest, I remember on how well he was received during one RAW back in Canada (right before Cena had been drafted to Raw for the first time) and how he took shots at Cena's rapping, along with giving a great promo, which resulted in the crowd LOUDLY cheering for him.

Yeah, but that's Canada. Canada will cheer Christian even if he drags Osama Bin Laden's corpse into the ring and kisses it on the lips. That's not a great comparison, unless the WWE wants to hold every PPV at the Air Canada Centre. (Yay for me, but bad for the rest of you!)

 

[Lobo]

I know I'm alone but always preferred Christian to Edge. Christian should have been a ME player back in 05 I think it was when he had Tomko, and Trish and was insanely over. I was at the MSG show when he was in the ring with Vince and he got the loudest pop of the night (except Hogan who came out to help HBK against Davari and Hassan) and Christians was very close to that

 

[Metallo]

Much like I said with Bryan every guy has to make it his own way. Thats how I knew he could be more than he was. There isn't always some set formula to make a guy popular.

WWE never really Christian have a go at it his own way most of the time. Its another reason WWE can't seem to figure out how to make new stars. They don't let enough people have the right opportunities to get over. And when they do get over if they don't do it the way WWE wants they squash it. Or Vince simply refuses to acknowledge it.

 

[The Batman]

Yeah, count me as a guy who thinks Christian coulda been a lot bigger than he was...

Guys like HHH say in interviews that all you need to do to be successful in WWE is connect with the fans. BS. You can connect with the fans and still get buried by management. The politics are mind numbingly stupid. MAkes me wish that TNA would get more popular.

 

[Lobo]

Even Christian's two WHC reigns, he needed Edge to distract Del Rio the first time, and some lawyer stipulation the next time. I still hate how he got sent down the card after his feud with Orton. Match wise I'd say Christian has been Randy's best opponent.

 

[Herolee10]

Yeah, count me as a guy who thinks Christian coulda been a lot bigger than he was...

Guys like HHH say in interviews that all you need to do to be successful in WWE is connect with the fans. BS. You can connect with the fans and still get buried by management. The politics are mind numbingly stupid. MAkes me wish that TNA would get more popular.

Indeed. Ryder was able to get over with the fans, and just when we thought that things were looking up for him after his U.S. Title win last year, they slowly but surely sent him back down at the end of the line. Imho, while popularity with the fans is one thing, in the end, it’s all about who likes you or not backstage and them politics.

Frankly, I don’t expect for the WWE to have a chance of even getting interesting in a drastic way until Vince McMahon retires from his position completely.

 

[Metallo]

Ryder is a prime example of HHH quite frankly lying on air. Its more about politics and WWE's "vision." Not always so much about what the people cheer.

The deal is you don't get the reactions that Christian has gotten for as long as hes gotten them while putting on the performances he has without having the potential to move somewhere up the ladder.

There have been a bunch of guys who were pegged for bigger things than Christian by WWE that didn't last as long as he has or put in the quality of work he has while getting the reactions he does.

 

[Herolee10]

IF anything, it seems like the only time popularity plays a factor in the decision to promote someone’s status in the WWE is if they fit the criteria that Vince normally seems to go for, which happens to be tall and muscular looking wrestlers who also happen to have personal connections with the higher ups, along with the fact that if the popularity of that said person is a result out of WWE’s creative booking team and not something original that the person had created on their own.

Heck, C.M. Punk is another example on how despite on how well over he was getting with the fans ever since his famous pipe bomb promo, he’s never been allowed to go to the top. And it doesn’t help things when you consider on how Linda’s senate campaigns further limits wrestlers from reaching out with their own creativity.

Frankly, I can’t really think of one active wrestling company right now between WWE and TNA where one isn’t plagued with some kind of setback that prevents them from being more successful as they’re capable of being. Whether it be bad management or lack of resources, in a way, if I were a wrestler right now, it’d be frustrating like hell for me to have this as a career if I weren’t hooked up with the right folks.

 

[Slushy]

The Bryan / Christian debate is quite interesting. Ironically, if Christian didn't become the sacrificial lamb, Bryan and Punk wouldn't be where they are now.

Re: SummerSlam 2012

Aside from the lame triple threat, I'm going over the SummerSlam card and this could be the best show in years. The last good show overall was back in 2005. I look forward to Sunday night.

Somebody on here mentioned the HHH / HBK backstage segment was like watching Rocky IV. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who got that vibe.

It was surreal watching Shawn get beat up by Brock. Made me wish he hadn't retired yet. Michaels Vs. Lesnar would've been amazing.

My only regret is after RAW ended, HHH is soooo winning the main event.

 

[MMMMM...Pancakes]

I know I'm alone but always preferred Christian to Edge. Christian should have been a ME player back in 05 I think it was when he had Tomko, and Trish and was insanely over. I was at the MSG show when he was in the ring with Vince and he got the loudest pop of the night (except Hogan who came out to help HBK against Davari and Hassan) and Christians was very close to that

You're not alone, Christian and Jericho have been my favorite wrestlers since I've been watching WWE in 03. I never became a big Edgehead in the first place.

 

[Superark]

With Magnus the plan is probably a slow build given his age, I think he'll take the TV title off Devon and defending it each week will be a good showcase for him. RVD is basically the same guy as a heel or face, my guess is he'll see out his year and then leave.

Magnus getting a long run with the TV Title would be a good way to build him up as a star in the same way WCW did with Booker T. A feud between him and Joe would be good.

RVD's persona has always been more geared as a heel. He needs some kind of edge. I think he'll stay in TNA for the simple fact he doesn't have to worry about the wellness policy and he has the freedom to do what he wants for the most part. You have to consider the TNA schedule as well. A big reason he did not go back to WWE was due to wanting to spend more time with his wife after her bout with cancer. I respect that.

I think Angle is more likely as you say given he was attacked by Aces & 8's, but I think Aries would be well sereved by being in the team as he's been involved in the storyline and it makes him important, Jeff hasn't really been in the angle and sadly I think AJ will be in some sort of blow-off match for the dreadful baby daddy angle.

Unfortunately I think you are right about AJ. He's done a good job making his matches with Daniels fresh, but I do not want to see them go at it again. Time to move on! Please TNA kill this angle at No Surrender.

I hope you're right but I'm not totally sure because TNA may see the Aces & 8's angle as bigger than everything right now, plus if Storm does win there is a distinct lack of challenger options.

Storm could have a nice feud with Bully for a bit. They can also drag out his reign with a few 3 ways with Aries and Roode. TNA needs another strong heel. I would not be surprised if Joe gets a renewed main event push so Storm has someone to go up against.

I just pray they do not put Anderson against him. That guy needs to stay away from the main events.

At his age I think Christian will stay with WWE, pick up a legends deal and maybe become a road agent.

I think he'll pull an Edge and just enjoy being out of the spotlight and do it on his terms.

 

[The Sage]

IF anything, it seems like the only time popularity plays a factor in the decision to promote someone’s status in the WWE is if they fit the criteria that Vince normally seems to go for, which happens to be tall and muscular looking wrestlers who also happen to have personal connections with the higher ups, along with the fact that if the popularity of that said person is a result out of WWE’s creative booking team and not something original that the person had created on their own.

Heck, C.M. Punk is another example on how despite on how well over he was getting with the fans ever since his famous pipe bomb promo, he’s never been allowed to go to the top. And it doesn’t help things when you consider on how Linda’s senate campaigns further limits wrestlers from reaching out with their own creativity.

Frankly, I can’t really think of one active wrestling company right now between WWE and TNA where one isn’t plagued with some kind of setback that prevents them from being more successful as they’re capable of being. Whether it be bad management or lack of resources, in a way, if I were a wrestler right now, it’d be frustrating like hell for me to have this as a career if I weren’t hooked up with the right folks.

To their credit, some of TNA's setbacks appear to be removing, probably due to a certain writer leaving the company. I won't mention his name because all know who he is.

If they continue to improve their product, I hope the resources become more abundant for them. They're embracing the business that they're in and being unashamed of it, unlike how WWE is acting.

 

[Superark]

www.prowrestling.net

Kurt Angle issued an apology for threatening C.M. Punk after the WWE Champion labeled TNA an "indy" promotion during a comic con appearance on Saturday. "I apologize to TNA and WWE fans for my comment," Angle wrote. "I don't expect Punk to apologize to TNA, but I'm sorry. Respect 4 The Biz."

"I didn't apologize to Punk," added Angle. "Only the WWE (and) TNA fans. Punk disrespected TNA. He Has a lot to learn about fame and responsibility. Follow Angle online at ***********/RealKurtAngle.

Powell's POV: For those who missed Angle's comment, here it is: "Punk wants to say TNA is an indy league? I was on top in WWE when you were trying to get a job anywhere. It was my choice to go to TNA. If I ever see you, Punk, hide, *****." I don't mind Angle defending his company, but he could have made his point without suggesting that Punk needs to hide from him. He did the right thing by apologizing, so end of story. If nothing else, it's good to see that his Twitter account wasn't "hacked" this time around.


TNA wrestler Matt Morgan offered another tease for a possible departure from TNA. He posted a graphic that features the words "I don't care about making an 'Impact,' I'm ready to start a War." The words "Tick Tock" appear on the cell door featured in the image. [Thanks to Dot Net reader Victor Rodriguez]

Powell's POV: Am I the only person who thinks the graphic looks similar to some of the work that TNA has done for their pay-per-view posters? I have a hard time believing that anyone from TNA is WWE-bound given the ongoing legal dispute between the two companies. Even so, Morgan's tweets have generated interest in whatever it is he's doing next.

 

[Slushy]

I don't know what happened to Angle. He used to be a stand up guy (well for the most part,compared to the others, he still is), but now he's become like Kevin Nash. Saying anything to get attention.