Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - - - - - Part 14

[jaqua99]

Who else could he have been talking about other than Hulk? And yes he affected her but she got what she wanted from him. I loved that scene.

That's why I hated it. Black Widow just doesn't trike Loki into giving her information.

And again, Loki was talking about the Hulk. I ask again, "you're a monster" "no, you brought the monster", yes, he refers to Hulk, but how does that reveal his intention was to "unleash" the hulk, when he said "what", I felt like he didn't even plan for that, and that she gave him the idea right there.

Cause she didn't trick anything.

She brought up a topic she GENUINELY was concerned about, Hawkeye, and Loki proceeded to rip her apart, and her motives, and clearly emotionally effect her, and when she says "your a monster" he responds, "no, you brought the monster", taking a verbal jab at the Hulk. Now I ask again, how does that reveal that his plan was to "UNLEASH the the Hulk?"

It doesn't. Loki emotionally and accurately ripped her apart, and the scene and moment, in my eyes was ruined by throwing the whole Hulk thing in out of no where. It felt just dropped in, and nothing he said in that one statement suggests he wanted to unleash the hulk, he merely said "you brought the monster" "That's your plan, Banner"? Loki, in a confused voice "what?" I got the impression, hopefully, that he hadn't even thought about using the Hulk to his advantage, but he did. That Widow planted the idea in his head.

Because of his reaction, and nothing was said by him suggesting he was going to unleash the Hulk. It could have been his intention, hell, it probably WAS his intention, but nothing he said revealed this, not until he smiled when he heard Hulk yell.

 

[Bren]

Lol that stuff is like 3 times harder than ordinary glass but yeah xD

I saw their trademark on the glass reflected in Loki's eye t:

 

[Sombra112]

That's why I hated it. Black Widow just doesn't trike Loki into giving her information.

And again, Loki was talking about the Hulk. I ask again, "you're a monster" "no, you brought the monster", yes, he refers to Hulk, but how does that reveal his intention was to "unleash" the hulk, when he said "what", I felt like he didn't even plan for that, and that she gave him the idea right there.

Cause she didn't trick anything.

She brought up a topic she GENUINELY was concerned about, Hawkeye, and Loki proceeded to rip her apart, and her motives, and clearly emotionally effect her, and when she says "your a monster" he responds, "no, you brought the monster", taking a verbal jab at the Hulk. Now I ask again, how does that reveal that his plan was to "UNLEASH the the Hulk?"

It doesn't. Loki emotionally and accurately ripped her apart, and the scene and moment, in my eyes was ruined by throwing the whole Hulk thing in out of no where. It felt just dropped in, and nothing he said in that one statement suggests he wanted to unleash the hulk, he merely said "you brought the monster" "That's your plan, Banner"? Loki, in a confused voice "what?" I got the impression, hopefully, that he hadn't even thought about using the Hulk to his advantage, but he did. That Widow planted the idea in his head.

Because of his reaction, and nothing was said by him suggesting he was going to unleash the Hulk. It could have been his intention, hell, it probably WAS his intention, but nothing he said revealed this, not until he smiled when he heard Hulk yell.

I got the feeling he said 'what?' because he had underestimated her like Mightyally said. He didn't expect anything like that to happen to when it did he was unprepared for it because he thinks he's so much better than us.

And she probably did pull up Banner intentionally. You drop hints, see what they respond with, and if it doesn't work you move on. If she dropped it on purpose it was to find out if that's what he wanted. And he said monster. Banner isn't a monster, Hulk was the only thing on that ship that could be classified as a 'monster'. So why would he mention it if that wasn't his intention to unleash him.

 

[jaqua99]

I got the feeling he said 'what?' because he had underestimated her like Mightyally said. He didn't expect anything like that to happen to when it did he was unprepared for it because he thinks he's so much better than us.

And she probably did pull up Banner intentionally. You drop hints, see what they respond with, and if it doesn't work you move on. If she dropped it on purpose it was to find out if that's what he wanted. And he said monster. Banner isn't a monster, Hulk was the only thing on that ship that could be classified as a 'monster'. So why would he mention it if that wasn't his intention to unleash him.

He is so much better than "us" he's the trickster god. He deceived Asgard and almost destroyed Jotenheim because of him clever-ness.
Because he knew that's what Hulk was. He didn't take it seriously. He looked at Banner earlier, and Laughed, laughed when hulk was unleashed, and made a joke about the Hulk, "I thought the beast had wandered off", and referred to him as "the mindless beast", and called him a "dull creature"..he didn't take him seriously at all.

Given THAT, I think his comment was merely another dig.

given how Loki was able to deceive Asgard...and hide from Heimdal's vision, almost kill the air to the throne, and get away with it, given how he thought Hulk was a joke, I was under the impression that the "you brought the monster", was yet another jab at the Hulk.
And given that he was able to trick all of asgard essentially,

I don't think he accidentally let slip his plan by referring to Banner as a monster. Not after he's tricked a lot of people in Asgard.

I just don't understand how you can find out someone's plan of releasing the hulk, just by them referring to it as a monster, when it was already clear he thought the Hulk was a joke. When I first saw it, I was under the impression that Widow planted the idea in Loki's head.

Almost like a double trick thing on her, cause now, when revealed to Barton, she feels crappy that Loki ripped her apart, and that she now feels responsible for Hulk being unleashed (planting the idea in Loki's head) and pissing him off when she was talking. "YOUR LIFE!"

I just couldn't see her getting ANY information from, or about Loki from that exchange of words, other than the fact that he is a psycho, and genuinely thinks that Humans are just the bottom of the bottom, completely pathetic.

 

[Sombra112]

He is so much better than "us" he's the trickster god. He deceived Asgard and almost destroyed Jotenheim because of him clever-ness.
Because he knew that's what Hulk was. He didn't take it seriously. He looked at Banner earlier, and Laughed, laughed when hulk was unleashed, and made a joke about the Hulk, "I thought the beast had wandered off", and referred to him as "the mindless beast", and called him a "dull creature"..he didn't take him seriously at all.

Given THAT, I think his comment was merely another dig.

given how Loki was able to deceive Asgard...and hide from Heimdal's vision, almost kill the air to the throne, and get away with it, given how he thought Hulk was a joke, I was under the impression that the "you brought the monster", was yet another jab at the Hulk.
And given that he was able to trick all of asgard essentially,

I don't think he accidentally let slip his plan by referring to Banner as a monster. Not after he's tricked a lot of people in Asgard.

I just don't understand how you can find out someone's plan of releasing the hulk, just by them referring to it as a monster, when it was already clear he thought the Hulk was a joke. When I first saw it, I was under the impression that Widow planted the idea in Loki's head.

Almost like a double trick thing on her, cause now, when revealed to Barton, she feels crappy that Loki ripped her apart, and that she now feels responsible for Hulk being unleashed (planting the idea in Loki's head) and pissing him off when she was talking. "YOUR LIFE!"

I just couldn't see her getting ANY information from, or about Loki from that exchange of words, other than the fact that he is a psycho, and genuinely thinks that Humans are just the bottom of the bottom, completely pathetic.

I don't think either of us is going to change the others mind so we'll just have to think what we think about that scene. I had fun discussing it with you though t:

 

[Bren]

I can see where Jaqua is coming from.... However, it seems a large majority didn't think it through properly and just thought "well played BW"

Worked for me

Being the Trickster and tricking Asgard and tricking the frost giants does not imply he can never be tricked. I think the point of that scene was to show EXACTLY that. The fact that BW and friends couldn't act on it quick enough was fine too, Loki got what he wanted anyway, which I was fine with.

Did you not notice that none of his plans have actually succeeded?

I must admit and ask forgiveness - I always read jaqua as 'jackwa'

 

[Feenix]

I can see where you're coming from.... However, it seems a large majority didn't think it through properly and thought "well played BW"

Worked for me

Being the Trickster and tricking Asgard and tricking the frost giants does not imply he can never be tricked. I think the point of that scene was to show EXACTLY that. The fact that BW and friends couldn't act on it quick enough was fine too, Loki got what he wanted anyway, which I was fine with.


Did you not notice that none of his plans have worked to fruition?

They never really do. It's a long running "theme" in the comics that even though Loki is of genius level intelligence, his plans always fail. The one time his plan did come to fruition, he ended up being killed by the Void because he underestimated it's power (or something like that).

Plus, as Coulson pointed out, Loki lacks conviction.

 

[Sombra112]

I can see where Jaqua is coming from.... However, it seems a large majority didn't think it through properly and just thought "well played BW"

Worked for me

Being the Trickster and tricking Asgard and tricking the frost giants does not imply he can never be tricked. I think the point of that scene was to show EXACTLY that. The fact that BW and friends couldn't act on it quick enough was fine too, Loki got what he wanted anyway, which I was fine with.

Did you not notice that none of his plans have actually succeeded?

I must admit and ask forgiveness - I always read jaqua as 'jackwa'

Wait, that's not how it's pronounced?

 

[ctsketch]

Oh yeah. It did seem like the staff was trying to irritate everyone and cause some dissension. That plus the explosion could throw anyone over. Okay

Lets not forget the glance Loki gave during the perp walked that made him have to rub his eyes....it was shown in the first Thor movie that Loki had some small mind control abilities

 

[Mightyally]

I pronounce it like Jack + uhuh + wha. I add an swe u, which doesn´t sound like "you" but more like the "u" in "huh"

English isn´t my native language so I have like political imunity on that statement. It´s like: Anything you say can not and will not be used against you in the court of law. That´s how I roll!

That's why I hated it. Black Widow just doesn't trike Loki into giving her information.

And again, Loki was talking about the Hulk. I ask again, "you're a monster" "no, you brought the monster", yes, he refers to Hulk, but how does that reveal his intention was to "unleash" the hulk, when he said "what", I felt like he didn't even plan for that, and that she gave him the idea right there.

It´s not only about the actual words comming out. The tone, look in the eyes, smile, expression or even how you position you head or hand can indicate/give information about the actual message.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfvPTo6HKzU take a look and you will see what I mean

 

[Moridin]

Oh, I didn't realize that the confusion came from the comics too. Well, I would love to know what they are in the MCU for sure.

I find the argument of "are they gods or aliens" to be purely semantics, perspective and misunderstandings of terms. Some people see it as "Aliens = Sci-fi, Gods = Fantasy/ myth" with absolutely no crossover.

Are they from Earth? No. So by definition, they are aliens. But they are also the very same beings worshipped as gods by the Norse.

Science vs Magic:
A definition of science:
something studied or performed methodically: an activity that is the object of careful study or that is carried out according to a developed method

How does Thor summon & direct lightning whenever he pleases? Magic, right? But he must have an understanding of the method behind it, and practiced that method so it's repeatable on command. Same goes for Loki or Odin and their "magic" attributes.

It looks like "magic" to humans because we don't have anywhere near a complete understanding of physics. It just depends on which way you're looking at it.

"I come from a place where they are one and the same".


Someone mentioned Darcy's explanation "ancient cultures would have worshippedd advanced beings as gods". We have modern versions of this with Cargo Cults on certain Pacific Islands after World War II activity exposed native tribes to Allied & Japanese armies and their technologies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult#Pacific_cults_of_World_War_II

With the end of the war, the military abandoned the airbases and stopped dropping cargo. In response, charismatic individuals developed cults among remote Melanesian populations that promised to bestow on their followers deliveries of food, arms, Jeeps, etc. The cult leaders explained that the cargo would be gifts from their own ancestors, or other sources, as had occurred with the outsider armies. In attempts to get cargo to fall by parachute or land in planes or ships again, islanders imitated the same practices they had seen the soldiers, sailors, and airmen use.

In a form of sympathetic magic, many built life-size replicas of aeroplanes out of straw and cut new military-style landing strips out of the jungle, hoping to attract more aeroplanes. The cult members thought that the foreigners had some special connection to the deities and ancestors of the natives, who were the only beings powerful enough to produce such riches.

I pronounce it like Jack + uhuh + wha. I add an swe u, which doesn´t sound like "you" but more like the "u" in "huh"

English isn´t my native language so I have like political imunity on that statement. It´s like: Anything you say can not and will not be used against you in the court of law. That´s how I roll!

"Dip-lo-matic imunity!"

t:

 

[Sombra112]

I find the argument of "are they gods or aliens" to be purely semantics, perspective and misunderstandings of terms. Some people see it as "Aliens = Sci-fi, Gods = Fantasy/ myth" with absolutely no crossover.

Are they from Earth? No. So by definition, they are aliens. But they are also the very same beings worshipped as gods by the Norse.

Science vs Magic
something studied or performed methodically: an activity that is the object of careful study or that is carried out according to a developed method

How does Thor summon & direct lightning whenever he pleases? Magic, right? But he must have an understanding of the method behind it, and practiced that method so it's repeatable on command. Same goes for Loki or Odin and their "magic" attributes.

It looks like "magic" to humans because we don't have anywhere near a complete understanding of physics. It just depends on which way you're looking at it.

"I come from a place where they are one and the same".


Someone mentioned Darcy's explanation "ancient cultures would have worshippedd advanced beings as gods". We have modern versions of this with Cargo Cults on certain Pacific Islands after World War II activity exposed native tribes to Allied & Japanese armies and their technologies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult#Pacific_cults_of_World_War_II

Wow. That's actually incredibly fascinating. I had no idea something like that actually happened. Cool.

 

[Bren]

Jackwa works for me

Wait, that's not how it's pronounced?

I'm still trying to work out what 112 is in bra size

 

[Sombra112]

Jackwa works for me



I'm still trying to work out what 112 is in bra size

: don't you want to know

 

[Bren]

You kinda put me in my place because that's as far as I'll joke about that... But I can't talk about the other guys that are going to flood this thread now hahaha!!!

 

[Mightyally]

Yeah Moridin, that was a true mindfart lolz Diplomatic and politcal are equally boring words so one tend to forget. But since I have have the imunity, you can´t use that against me

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

You kinda put me in my place because that's as far as I'll joke about that... But I can't talk about the other guys that are going to flood this thread now hahaha!!!

I just assumed our young friend was either a latina OR a fan of the episode of ARCHER where Cyril pretends to be the accountant for a drug kingpin... The Shadow!
DANGERZONE!!!

 

[Sombra112]

I just assumed our young friend was either a latina OR a fan of the episode of ARCHER where Cyril pretends to be the accountant for a drug kingpin... The Shadow!
DANGERZONE!!!

Neither! I am just a fan of dark, cool places away from hot lights

 

[Bren]

I just assumed our young friend was either a latina OR a fan of the episode of ARCHER where Cyril pretends to be the accountant for a drug kingpin... The Shadow!
DANGERZONE!!!

Neither! I am just a fan of dark, cool places away from hot lights

Like Jotunheim

And just like that I bring it back to Thor t:t:t:

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Neither! I am just a fan of dark, cool places away from hot lights

Gotcha... You're some kind of Fungus/Human hybrid with wifi. It all makes sense now.

 

[Sombra112]

Gotcha... You're some kind of Fungus/Human hybrid with wifi. It all makes sense now.

You're just jealous that I can eat by photosynthesis.

 

[Smashlilman]

I can see where Jaqua is coming from.... However, it seems a large majority didn't think it through properly and just thought "well played BW"

Worked for me

Being the Trickster and tricking Asgard and tricking the frost giants does not imply he can never be tricked. I think the point of that scene was to show EXACTLY that. The fact that BW and friends couldn't act on it quick enough was fine too, Loki got what he wanted anyway, which I was fine with.

Did you not notice that none of his plans have actually succeeded?

I must admit and ask forgiveness - I always read jaqua as 'jackwa'

Loki greatest strength is also his greatest weaknesses. Loki is a master liar. His lies are so good that when he engages in Introspection he lies to himself and believes them which results in delusions.

 

[seahammer]

Science vs Magic

Hey Moridin!

Interesting take. We were having a science vs. magic discussion recently in this Dr. Strange thread:
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=451611&page=6

Thor's world has already been established (IMHO) as a blending of the two in the MCU (and in the comics for many, many years), so there isn't much discussion to be had here. But if you're interested in the discussion there, check it out!

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Loki greatest strength is also his greatest weaknesses. Loki is a master liar. His lies are so good that when he engages in Introspection he lies to himself and believes them which results in delusions.

Has anyone here ever read CRYTONOMICON by NEAL STEPHENSON? There is a part way at the end that has a fascinating analysis of gods and myths across cultures and one of them is of course Loki. It's interesting that a god of cunning intelligence is often portrayed in the Norse worldview as being both very duplicitous as well as often too smart for his own good. In myth a lot the times while Loki is essential to getting the goDS out of some jam using craftyness, it's also the case that they wouldn't have gotten into said messes if Loki wasn't scheming up a storm to begin with.
The Norse people of their times seemed to have a distrust or at least a strong distaste of the type of prowess Loki exemplified.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Why does IMAX Thor have to be in 3D? WHY?!?!?!