Thor Ragnarok Spoilers - Part 1

[BigThor]

No all those last comments were speculative about what I'd want in an all out no holding back battle between the 2 (from our previous posts), not to do with what happens in the film.

I know, it just sounds like you didn't think Hulk was as strong or durable in this film as he could have been.

 

[Iceman]

Another aspect to the matter is that Odin seemingly wanted to die. Not only was his life nearing it's end due to all the circumstances, he said that Frigga was calling him so I think he felt that he was done with everything.

Did seem that way a bit. Also like he thought it was the right time for the responsibility to pass to Thor.

Even in his fight with Fenris I think Hulk was nerfed a bit. He only won by sheer luck, basically.

It was great to watch but Hulk wasn't really dominating that fight. It's true as others have said that Fenris would be a big ask if it was Fenris from the comics but to the GA he is just a huge possibly ancient black wolf.

 

[Iceman]

I know, it just sounds like you didn't think Hulk was as strong or durable in this film as he could have been.

If we're talking just the Hulk Vs Thor fight then the real difference between the 2 was Thor's great speed and counters. In the first phase of the fight I don't think Hulk landed at all so we don't know his strength there while Thor was countering and landing for fun. That also implies Hulk's tanking was decent as he withstood all that even though it would be a unanimous decision on a boxing card lol. It's kind of hard to compare strength and durability as evidence of one person's strength depends on the other's durability so if one person takes a hit badly you don't know whether to attribute more of that to their comparatively weaker durability or the other person having superior strength over their durability level, in the absence of other feats to compare against. Hulk is strong enough that he can send Thor flying every time he connects but he just doesn't get any hits in without getting lucky or Thor hesitating. If anything was downplayed or overplayed it was the disparity on speed and agility between Hulk and Thor in this fight and the gap was so vast that Thor was running rings around Hulk until Hulk kind of cheated lol.

All my other talk was about an ideal Thor vs Hulk both in murderous rage mode and no holding back. Based on what we've seen here, for the first time in the MCU I'd now say Thor would definitely win with that Super Saiyan mode. I'd just like to see Hulk show that he is stronger for eg if they get into a clinch I want to see Hulk making the gains. Aside from that I would like to see Thor go all out offense with all his crazy powers and a Hulk forced on the defensive officially lose the fight but be able to tank nearly all of it.

In other words I think you'll be very impressed with Thor's power levels in this compared to what we've seen before. He truly is the God of Thunder now.

 

[BigThor]

If we're talking just the Hulk Vs Thor fight then the real difference between the 2 was Thor's great speed and counters. In the first phase of the fight I don't think Hulk landed at all so we don't know his strength there while Thor was countering and landing for fun. That also implies Hulk's tanking was decent as he withstood all that even though it would be a unanimous decision on a boxing card lol. It's kind of hard to compare strength and durability as evidence of one person's strength depends on the other's durability so if one person takes a hit badly you don't know whether to attribute more of that to their comparatively weaker durability or the other person having superior strength over their durability level, in the absence of other feats to compare against. Hulk is strong enough that he can send Thor flying every time he connects but he just doesn't get any hits in without getting lucky or Thor hesitating. If anything was downplayed or overplayed it was the disparity on speed and agility between Hulk and Thor in this fight and the gap was so vast that Thor was running rings around Hulk until Hulk kind of cheated lol.

All my other talk was about an ideal Thor vs Hulk both in murderous rage mode and no holding back. Based on what we've seen here, for the first time in the MCU I'd now say Thor would definitely win with that Super Saiyan mode. I'd just like to see Hulk show that he is stronger for eg if they get into a clinch I want to see Hulk making the gains. Aside from that I would like to see Thor go all out offense with all his crazy powers and a Hulk forced on the defensive officially lose the fight but be able to tank nearly all of it.

In other words I think you'll be very impressed with Thor's power levels in this compared to what we've seen before. He truly is the God of Thunder now.

How long was Thor in Super Saiyan 2 mode in his fight against Hulk?

 

[Wise]

Yes good point. Banner said if he changes to Hulk again he will be stuck as Hulk for good (I didn't catch how he would know that). But maybe if part of Banner's personality makes it through this won't come to pass, while also making Hulk more formidable and strategic. Yes his durability is very impressive.

I think the point is that he doesn't know that. He was just freaked out after being subject to Hulk's control for 2 years.

I actually really liked that aspect. It ties back to Age of Ultron. Hulk was still feeling shame from his Johannesburg rampage, but mostly for walking out on Natasha. Hulk seemed to be a coping mechanism for Banner and the way the Hulk resisted the change back to Banner in the Quinn jet sort of reinforces that.

I like that this film explored the Hulk's personality a bit more. Hearing Hulk hold a conversation and interact with Thor and Valkyrie was great.

 

[jaqua99]

Did seem that way a bit. Also like he thought it was the right time for the responsibility to pass to Thor.



It was great to watch but Hulk wasn't really dominating that fight. It's true as others have said that Fenris would be a big ask if it was Fenris from the comics but to the GA he is just a huge possibly ancient black wolf.

I remember people were expecting Hulk to be Godly. To me, it sounds like it was perfect. This is Thor's world, not Hulks, not Tony's, not the US army. This is Thor's world of gods, monsters and mythology.

In this movie, Hulk literally encounters the 4 most powerful characters he's ever met. If they are drawing from mythology and simmonsons comics, yeah, from an objective feat/mythos story telling standpoint, Fenris shouldn't be easy work for Hulk and should be too much for him, as should an all out Thor, Hela, Fenris, and Surtur. He shouldnt be able to beat up a character to is historically above him, simply because "he's Hulk, and forget continuity"

Doesn't sound like Hulk was nerfed, or "should have been more powerful" here, it just sounds like the writers didn't boost him up and lower the other characters..his powers were scaled accurately as the should be.

People are conditioned to Hulk being overall "strongest one there is".. not in Thor's world with him, Hela, Fenris and Surtur. With characters like that Hulk SHOULDN'T stand out. He is a heavy weight playing steriod heavy weights and peak humans

 

[BigThor]

Don't forget to vote in our Killian vs Drax battle, link in my signature.

The last day is tomorrow.

 

[Wise]

I remember people were expecting Hulk to be Godly. To me, it sounds like it was perfect. This is Thor's world, not Hulks, not Tony's, not the US army. This is Thor's world of gods, monsters and mythology.

In this movie, Hulk literally encounters the 4 most powerful characters he's ever met. If they are drawing from mythology and simmonsons comics, yeah, from an objective feat/mythos story telling standpoint, Fenris shouldn't be easy work for Hulk and should be too much for him, as should an all out Thor, Hela, Fenris, and Surtur. He shouldnt be able to beat up a character to is historically above him, simply because "he's Hulk, and forget continuity"

Doesn't sound like Hulk was nerfed, or "should have been more powerful" here, it just sounds like the writers didn't boost him up and lower the other characters..his powers were scaled accurately as the should be.

People are conditioned to Hulk being overall "strongest one there is".. not in Thor's world with him, Hela, Fenris and Surtur. With characters like that Hulk SHOULDN'T stand out. He is a heavy weight playing steriod heavy weights and peak humans

Plus Hulk's power is historically tied to how angry he is. We saw that he liked living on Sakaar. He was friends with Valkyrie, he was a famous celebrity with a penthouse (complete with a hot tub). He wasn't as angry as we've seen him in situations where Betty is in danger or New York is threatened or he's been mind drugged by Scarlet Witch.

 

[BigThor]

Plus Hulk's power is historically tied to how angry he is. We saw that he liked living on Sakaar. He was friends with Valkyrie, he was a famous celebrity with a penthouse (complete with a hot tub). He wasn't as angry as we've seen him in situations where Betty is in danger or New York is threatened or he's been mind drugged by Scarlet Witch.

Well in the interviews for this film Taika and Mark Ruffalo said being Hulk 2 straight years made Hulk angrier/stronger than he's ever been.

He's also been a gladiator for two years meaning he's picked up MUCH better fighting skills. So in essence, this Hulk should kick Avengers and AOU Hulk's asses handily.

 

[HammerDown]

Hulk strenght and power was portrayed accurately.
The difference is that he no longer was fighting in the minor leagues. Now he was going head to head against Thor, Fenris Wolf and Surtur.

Hulk and Thor are an even match.
Fenris is a giant wolf and he was no joke.
Hulk in a direct fight against prime Surtur wouldn't stand a chance.

 

[BigThor]

I remember people were expecting Hulk to be Godly. To me, it sounds like it was perfect. This is Thor's world, not Hulks, not Tony's, not the US army. This is Thor's world of gods, monsters and mythology.

In this movie, Hulk literally encounters the 4 most powerful characters he's ever met. If they are drawing from mythology and simmonsons comics, yeah, from an objective feat/mythos story telling standpoint, Fenris shouldn't be easy work for Hulk and should be too much for him, as should an all out Thor, Hela, Fenris, and Surtur. He shouldnt be able to beat up a character to is historically above him, simply because "he's Hulk, and forget continuity"

Doesn't sound like Hulk was nerfed, or "should have been more powerful" here, it just sounds like the writers didn't boost him up and lower the other characters..his powers were scaled accurately as the should be.

People are conditioned to Hulk being overall "strongest one there is".. not in Thor's world with him, Hela, Fenris and Surtur. With characters like that Hulk SHOULDN'T stand out. He is a heavy weight playing steriod heavy weights and peak humans

Well said bro, I think people are just so used to seeing Hulk dominate in The Avengers films. Hulk had almost all the most "cool looking" moments in The Avengers final battle and frankly was built up to pretty much be the end all be all in the dialogue.

After The Avengers most of the GA and even a lot of CBM fans felt Hulk was the clear superior to Thor. Most even feel like he won their battle in the Helicarrier, so now everyone can understand how us Thor fans felt.

 

[darkslayer101]

so eh.... does thor get his hammer back?

 

[BigThor]

Hulk strenght and power was portrayed accurately.
The difference is that he no longer was fighting in the minor leagues. Now he was going head to head against Thor, Fenris Wolf and Surtur.

Hulk and Thor are an even match.
Fenris is a giant wolf and he was no joke.
Hulk in a direct fight against prime Surtur wouldn't stand a chance.

Yep, it's just that simple

 

[HammerDown]

When Thor says something like "I am not strong as you father".
Odin's response made me go...

 

[BigThor]

When Thor says something like "I am not strong as you father".
Odin's response made me go...

What did Odin say?

 

[HammerDown]

What did Odin say?

You are stronger than i am.

 

[BigThor]

You are stronger than i am.

That would hold more weight if Thor didn't get his ass kicked by Hela right after that.

 

[HammerDown]

That would hold more weight if Thor didn't get his ass kicked by Hela right after that.

He didn't.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I remember people were expecting Hulk to be Godly. To me, it sounds like it was perfect. This is Thor's world, not Hulks, not Tony's, not the US army. This is Thor's world of gods, monsters and mythology.

In this movie, Hulk literally encounters the 4 most powerful characters he's ever met. If they are drawing from mythology and simmonsons comics, yeah, from an objective feat/mythos story telling standpoint, Fenris shouldn't be easy work for Hulk and should be too much for him, as should an all out Thor, Hela, Fenris, and Surtur. He shouldnt be able to beat up a character to is historically above him, simply because "he's Hulk, and forget continuity"

Doesn't sound like Hulk was nerfed, or "should have been more powerful" here, it just sounds like the writers didn't boost him up and lower the other characters..his powers were scaled accurately as the should be.

People are conditioned to Hulk being overall "strongest one there is".. not in Thor's world with him, Hela, Fenris and Surtur. With characters like that Hulk SHOULDN'T stand out. He is a heavy weight playing steriod heavy weights and peak humans

I've yet to see anyone complain about the Thor fight or the Surtur fight and he doesn't even fight Hela at all. He was losing to Thor because Thor is more than just a brute warrior, he's the God of Thunder with an array of power, and Surtur was basically the most powerful being that we've seen in the marvel films so far.

But I think the Fenris fight was absolutely a disservice, especially considering 1) Fenris was not presented as anything remotely resembling the eldritch devourer of worlds and gods that he is in the comics and mythology. In fact he's basically just presented as an overgrown wolf that Hela rode into battle a few times, with no real special abilities or any particular weight to his existence other than Hela having sentiment for him as a pet. 2) The fight was basically just Fenris mauling Hulk until he got off a lucky shot that sent Fenris over the edge into space. Considering how depowered Fenris was, the fight should have been far more even than what it was. More of King Kong vs T-Rex and less of a man getting attacked by a big dog.

 

[BigThor]

He didn't.

So Hela didn't kick Thor's ass?

A couple of posters said she did.

But I think the Fenris fight was absolutely a disservice, especially considering 1) Fenris was not presented as anything remotely resembling the eldritch devourer of worlds and gods that he is in the comics and mythology. In fact he's basically just presented as an overgrown wolf that Hela rode into battle a few times, with no real special abilities or any particular weight to his existence other than Hela having sentiment for him as a pet. 2) The fight was basically just Fenris mauling Hulk until he got off a lucky shot that sent Fenris over the edge into space. Considering how depowered Fenris was, the fight should have been far more even than what it was. More of King Kong vs T-Rex and less of a man getting attacked by a big dog.

How did it look when Hulk suplexed Fenris? Was it cool and did Hulk throw any punches, knees or kicks?

 

[HammerDown]

So Hela didn't kick Thor's ass?

A couple of posters said she did.

When he is in normal Thor mode yes he gets owned by her. Then he goes Beast Mode and she tastes his power in a big way. She definitely realizes something is up. t:

 

[BigThor]

When he is in normal Thor mode yes he gets owned by her. Then he goes Beast Mode and she tastes his power in a big way. She definitely realizes something is up. t:

So how was their fight?

 

[Roose Bolton]

How did it look when Hulk suplexed Fenris? Was it cool and did Hulk throw any punches, knees or kicks?

He basically grabs Fenris by the tail when he goes to lunge at Heimdall and the Asgardian civilians, lifts him briefly and they kind of tumble into the waters beneath the Bifrost. It was kind of funny more than anything, because Banner was trying to show off for Valkyrie and Fenris had a weird kind of startled expression. From what I can remember, (it's intercut with Thor vs Hela and Heimdall vs the undead/Skurge) most of what he does is keep Fenris' jaws pried apart, maybe throws a punch or two, and then gets dragged along under the water when Fenris starts mauling him. They tumble through the water as the currents take them to the edge where Hulk manages to throw off Fenris.

In general, Fenris is weirdly used. I don't think he actually kills anyone or does much beyond the Hulk fight and growling at scared Asgardian civilians.

 

[HammerDown]

So how was their fight?

Hela first owns Thor. Then he goes Beast Mode and blasts her with lightning throwing her down from a big height in the palace.

 

[CK Spider]

So how was their fight?

I can answer this to you. I've seen the movie, just didn't have to write a proper review. But sure enough I absolutely loved it. t:

So, to the fight. The thing is, as far as I remember, they don't really fight when Thor goes super sayan. He blasts Hela away - really far way - with his lightning, but it doesn't seem enough to truly hurt her. Then, he proceeds to fight her minions in one of the coolest scenes of the MCU. He realises he won't stop her with his powers, so he asks Loki to revive Surtur.

EDIT: Not fast enough. LOL But you might appreciate the extra context.