Thor: Ragnarok The Official News and Speculation Thread - Part 1

[meanmc]

Thor vs. Hulk...

I think, it was a big mistake that Kursed could beat Thor sooo easy!
Was not good for the character of Thor...
And now he maybe will fight Hulk without his hammer (and maybe wins)?

Thor is my favorite... since i was a small boy!
So Marvel, better do it right this time...

I want a Thor who kicks some a... , and not a Thor like in TDW with many lousy fighingscenes! Specially those against Kursed and in Vanaheim.. beating the big one did not save the whole fight! Sorry!

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

I dislike the "THOR 2 SUX!!!!! LOL" crowd as much as anyone, but I don't think this forum has to be in "let's all hold hands and say how wonderful the Thor movies are" mode all the time either. A discussion forum without differing viewpoints is somewhat pointless IMO.

While it's among my least favorite MCU movies, I still like Thor 2. The good aspects of that movie outnumber the bad... Bor vs. Dark Elves, Loki's arc, Thor's characterization, whatever little screen time Sif and the Warriors Three got, the attack on Asgard, etc. were all wonderful in my eyes. Doesn't mean there were lot of pretty bad, groan-worthy moments in the movie that should be swept under the rug.

And on LOTR... it isn't some grim historical documentary. It's plenty wacky! You have walking tree folk, Cosmic Cube/Infinity Gem-type McGuffins, a super-group (complete with apparent jobbers who later prove their worth) formed to execute a mission, sorcerers, powerful magic/science artifacts that our heroes receive, Frodo flying on giant eagles, and so on. LOTR also has plenty of humor. No, not necessarily the modern quippy humor that's prevalent in the MCU, but rather a nice, witty old-school brand of humor (especially the books). So yea, Thor and LOTR aren't as disparate as all that. The folks calling for LOTR-style epic film making in the Thor movies aren't far off base at all.

I agree with you and am not saying that folks need to go all Kumbaya on the Thor films but the backlash is over the top. I personally love Thor 2 and understand why they did what they did but I also understand the criticisms of it. But people obsess over what they didn't like and dismiss the entire Thor franchise because of it. While I'm pleased to see some people stick up for Kenneth Branagh's Thor, I still see revisionists with selective amnesia thinking Captain America 1 is some great film simply because Cap 2 was and Thor 1 is not a great film because Thor 2 wasn't. A great Thor 3 will change the entire perception of Thor and Marvel knows this.

Listen, Alan Taylor has proven himself to not be a good director. Things didn't go that great for Thor 2 behind the scenes. It was a troubled production with a unfortunate share of bad luck. (e.g. Jaime Alexander near death accident etc.) Marvel saved that film but people refuse to see that.

Meanwhile, Waititi had nothing to do with that film. He's saying all the right things to me.

If you're going to call the movie Thor, Thor has to be the best character.

Feige is saying all the right things.

It's going to be, perhaps, as totally different from the two prior Thor movies as Winter Soldier was from the first Captain America. We want to take it to new places, we've got new characters that will show how big we're swinging on this.

The film takes place within the cosmos primarily which is to say, frankly, very little Earth.

Waititi is a director with a superb resume, a flair for the unique and a fascination with the material (comics and mythology).

I started reading about the actual Norse Ragnarok and that’s even more insane than the comics. Crazy!

They are bringing in great actors like Mark Ruffalo and freaking Cate Blanchett (knocks on wood). Hemsworth is the perfect Thor! You know Hiddleston will be back.

Can someone please explain to me the need to be negative here???

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Thor vs. Hulk...

I think, it was a big mistake that Kursed could beat Thor sooo easy!
Was not good for the character of Thor...
And now he maybe will fight Hulk without his hammer (and maybe wins)?

Thor is my favorite... since i was a small boy!
So Marvel, better do it right this time...

I want a Thor who kicks some a... , and not a Thor like in TDW with many lousy fighingscenes! Specially those against Kursed and in Vanaheim.. beating the big one did not save the whole fight! Sorry!

Kurse is twice as strong as Thor. Even in the comics.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

The humor was just the hook in Thor 1
The drama is what people wanted to come back for
When people talked about their favorite scenes from the first film, they would briefly mention how funny the movie was before focusing on Loki and Odin in the throne room, or Loki and Thor at the SHIELD base, or Thor laying down his life against the Destroyer. It was those emotional and dramatic moments that made the biggest impact

Yeah, pretty much. That the first film had good humor was a great bonus but they played the dramatic stuff so well. When Odin and Loki have their confrontation about Loki's origin the air crackles with the performances of Tom and Hopkins. The moment Thor cannot lift the hammer and realizes he can never go home makes a mark on you as a viewer, I mean what is more sympathetic than someone who just wants to go home? Is there a quick turn around in Thor's character? Maybe, but he went through much in a short period as well. I felt the change in his character.

More of that material is what the sequel needed. The death of Frigga was less than it should have been. More time and interaction with her sons was needed, for myself.

Thing is, Marvel has had a successful track record with bringing in people from a comedy background to come and helm these films so nothing says that they will repeat TDW. This very well could turn out the way TWS did.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Yeah, pretty much. That the first film had good humor was a great bonus but they played the dramatic stuff so well. When Odin and Loki have their confrontation about Loki's origin the air crackles with the performances of Tom and Hopkins. The moment Thor cannot lift the hammer and realizes he can never go home makes a mark on you as a viewer, I mean what is more sympathetic than someone who just wants to go home? Is there a quick turn around in Thor's character? Maybe, but he went through much in a short period as well. I felt the change in his character.

More of that material is what the sequel needed. The death of Frigga was less than it should have been. More time and interaction with her sons was needed, for myself.

Thing is, Marvel has had a successful track record with bringing in people from a comedy background to come and helm these films so nothing says that they will repeat TDW. This very well could turn out the way TWS did.

I agree with all of this and what you said about Frigga. I personally thought the funeral scene was amazing BUT the payoff would have been far more impactful with more characterization. I don't think this fault lies purely with TDW though - the first Thor also cut out scenes with Rene Russo that I think should've have stayed in. Marvel needs to stop editing these films down too much IMO. Both the Iron Man and Cap films have benefited from added character moments which extended their runtimes. Thor deserves no less.

 

[Sleiek]

I dislike the "THOR 2 SUX!!!!! LOL" crowd as much as anyone, but I don't think this forum has to be in "let's all hold hands and say how wonderful the Thor movies are" mode all the time either. A discussion forum without differing viewpoints is somewhat pointless IMO.

While it's among my least favorite MCU movies, I still like Thor 2. The good aspects of that movie outnumber the bad... Bor vs. Dark Elves, Loki's arc, Thor's characterization, whatever little screen time Sif and the Warriors Three got, the attack on Asgard, etc. were all wonderful in my eyes. Doesn't mean there were lot of pretty bad, groan-worthy moments in the movie that should be swept under the rug.

And on LOTR... it isn't some grim historical documentary. It's plenty wacky! You have walking tree folk, Cosmic Cube/Infinity Gem-type McGuffins, a super-group (complete with apparent jobbers who later prove their worth) formed to execute a mission, sorcerers, powerful magic/science artifacts that our heroes receive, Frodo flying on giant eagles, and so on. LOTR also has plenty of humor. No, not necessarily the modern quippy humor that's prevalent in the MCU, but rather a nice, witty old-school brand of humor (especially the books). So yea, Thor and LOTR aren't as disparate as all that. The folks calling for LOTR-style epic film making in the Thor movies aren't far off base at all.

Abso-bloody-lutely.

I know I call for more seriousness to these films, doesn't mean I didn't appreciate serious scenes like the Frega funeral. I forgot to mention that scene feels like LOTR, earlier I only mentioned the opening scene that comes close. That funeral scene was undeniably gorgeous and made me tear up a bit. I mentioned this a few months ago. We need more of such scenes with immense dramatic heft.

 

[First Avenger]

I enjoy TDW a lot. It's always a fun time.

 

[ALittlePush]

Abso-bloody-lutely.

I know I call for more seriousness to these films, doesn't mean I didn't appreciate serious scenes like the Frega funeral. I forgot to mention that scene feels like LOTR, earlier I only mentioned the opening scene that comes close. That funeral scene was undeniably gorgeous and made me tear up a bit. I mentioned this a few months ago. We need more of such scenes with immense dramatic heft.

I think the music scores actually add emotional depth to a scene. For example, Loki letting himself fall into the portal and Frigga's funeral were emotional scenes anyway but the music just made it that much more.

TDW wasn't a bad movie, it was decent enough but it could've done with more Asgard stuff and less Darcy's intern/ Jane dating stuff.


Question about TDW: Was the London flat that Jane and co were staying in, Erik's rented flat or did they say it was Jane's mom's? I'm sure they mentioned it but I'm not quite sure.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Yeah, pretty much. That the first film had good humor was a great bonus but they played the dramatic stuff so well. When Odin and Loki have their confrontation about Loki's origin the air crackles with the performances of Tom and Hopkins. The moment Thor cannot lift the hammer and realizes he can never go home makes a mark on you as a viewer, I mean what is more sympathetic than someone who just wants to go home? Is there a quick turn around in Thor's character? Maybe, but he went through much in a short period as well. I felt the change in his character.

More of that material is what the sequel needed. The death of Frigga was less than it should have been. More time and interaction with her sons was needed, for myself.

Thing is, Marvel has had a successful track record with bringing in people from a comedy background to come and helm these films so nothing says that they will repeat TDW. This very well could turn out the way TWS did.

that's what was the great thing about Thor 1, the dramatic moments were superb and the humour never got in the way of that, in fact it complemented the dramatic moments very well.

The sequel went the other way and the humour constantly undercut the dramatic moments.

 

[ernesth100]

I really liked the Loki Thor dynamic in that film. Them working together kept me interest.

 

[LowlifeZar]

I really enjoyed TDW. I was very excited for it to come out and even watched it 3-4 times in theaters, but there was just something missing from the first one to me. The acting and dramatic moments were key in me loving the first Thor film.
If the first film didn't even have any action scenes I would have still enjoyed it immensely as I still do.
I feel that it comes down to what the directors were able to bring out of the actors and that is where Branagh outshined Taylor.
I really hope Waititi is able to bring out great performances from the actors as well as awesome action scenes.

 

[Mjölnir]

I've really enjoyed the two previous outings but I'm highly excited for Waititi's words about taking inspiration from the real mythology and wanting to reinvent the franchise with a basis in that, as well as in the comics. Add that he realizes that Thor needs to be the most interesting character in his own movie and I think everything is set up properly as far as mindset goes.

Now it's all in the execution.

 

[Zoom]

All I know is that I'm very excited about Ragnarok, specially with so much talent involved (and Waititi's enthusiasm for it!)

 

[InCali]

While the LOTR films and books have humor, the overall impression I think most would give is that of an epic action drama in a highly detailed and immersive world with it's own history and which was executed on screen in the three LOTR films with scope and heart and a deep texture which rewards repeat viewings.

This is what people want when they bring of Tolkien as a reference for how they would like the Thor mythos to play out in live action. I adore the first Thor, and part of the reason is the well executed action, the fish out of water stuff. But there was no need at all to double down on that in TDW, especially since this meant giving short shrift to other elements which I think myself and others felt, was either pushed to the side or not given the proper development in the script so that instead, time efforts and a film's production resources went to Jane's sad sack "date" or Darcy and now HER intern, or Selvig's unfunny shennanigans. Maybe those would have been easier to tolerate but the film also whiffed on the villains and the action both which seemed, at best, to be perfunctory.

My advice is... The humor will come. That stuff is easier to pull off with this setup (Cosmic being once worshipped by humans as the God Of Thunder comes to modern Earth and wackiness ensues? That stuff can write itself in terms of gags) than trying to make the stakes and drama come off compelling and well done, and as such, the focus on the creators side should be to pull off that aspect as well as they can.

I also think that with TDW, Marvel Studios themselves underestimated how much we as the fans were already engaged by the dramatics they had set up from the first film, from the Thor/Odin/Loki free floating relationship miasma, to the Warriors Three and Sif (plus... Sorry, the obvious build up of Sif's feelings for the Odinson), to the simple reality that the Norse pantheon is a real thing and what that means for the future of Earth now? Yeah, all that? Gonna crap can that for a lackluster villain, a piss poor 2 minute "fight" with Kurse and more time spent on the comedic relief in the finale.

People that are complaining about TDW or are a little worried about word coming from those involved in Ragnarok... This isn't coming from out of a vacuum. There are reasons, not overblown, totally off the mark reasons, to be a bit deflated that they (Marvel Studios) didn't seem to understand what the issues were with TDW. Or at least, so far...

Liked the LotR movies okay, but they could have made it longer and left out the Arwen stuff. That being said, I found this pretty funny....

Gandalf: [after failing to open the magical doors of Moria] I once knew every spell in all the tongues of Elves... Men... and Orcs.

Pippin: What are you going to do, then?

Gandalf: Knock your head against these doors, Peregrin Took! And if that does not shatter them, and I am allowed a little peace from foolish questions, I will try to find the opening words.

My personal opinion is that Thor and Dr. Strange both have a lot of potential because of the other worldly aspects of their characters. It will be up to the writers/directors to really flesh out those worlds.

 

[JtheDreamer]

I agree with you and am not saying that folks need to go all Kumbaya on the Thor films but the backlash is over the top. I personally love Thor 2 and understand why they did what they did but I also understand the criticisms of it. But people obsess over what they didn't like and dismiss the entire Thor franchise because of it. While I'm pleased to see some people stick up for Kenneth Branagh's Thor, I still see revisionists with selective amnesia thinking Captain America 1 is some great film simply because Cap 2 was and Thor 1 is not a great film because Thor 2 wasn't. A great Thor 3 will change the entire perception of Thor and Marvel knows this.

Listen, Alan Taylor has proven himself to not be a good director. Things didn't go that great for Thor 2 behind the scenes. It was a troubled production with a unfortunate share of bad luck. (e.g. Jaime Alexander near death accident etc.) Marvel saved that film but people refuse to see that.

Saved what exactly? If it was saved, why is your boy Waititi trying to re-invent it? Why is Feige so self-aware that they made a pledge to give the third one the same effect CA:TWS had on that franchise?

There's a reason it has the second lowest RT score in the Marvel family.

Meanwhile, Waititi had nothing to do with that film. He's saying all the right things to me.

Feige is saying all the right things.
Waititi is a director with a superb resume, a flair for the unique and a fascination with the material (comics and mythology).

They are bringing in great actors like Mark Ruffalo and freaking Cate Blanchett (knocks on wood). Hemsworth is the perfect Thor! You know Hiddleston will be back.

Can someone please explain to me the need to be negative here???

They all say the right things before production. Nothing new here - happens on every movie.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Saved what exactly? If it was saved, why is your boy Waititi trying to re-invent it? Why is Feige so self-aware that they made a pledge to give the third one the same effect CA:TWS had on that franchise?

There's a reason it has the second lowest RT score in the Marvel family.



They all say the right things before production. Nothing new here - happens on every movie.

Umm maybe look at Taylor's last movie? And I don't need RT to tell me whether or not I like a movie.

 

[ernesth100]

I still look forward to this film. I wonder if we'll get somethings from Comic Con. So far away. What characters are you expecting? I'm actually expecting Odin to be trapped by Hela. Hela is Loki's daughter in the comics, I think. I wonder if she fufills a similar role here. Not sure how old Loki is in the MCU. But being a god he's probably hundreds upon thousands of years old. So maybe. Or maybe Hela is just a friend that owes Loki a favor.

I wanted Surtur as well. But that may just feel like a rehash of Dormammu if Dormmamu is in strange. You know both being ancient evils of fire and all. So I'd rather have Dormammu in Strange than have Surtur in Thor. I'd like to see Thanos tear up Asgard and own Loki, Odin or Thor. Maybe all 3. Most likely Loki though, especially after his fail in Avengers.


Death would be nice as well. Thanos referencing his actions are for his love for Death. They think he means Hela but he really means THE Death. Then there's Thor and Hulk. While already confirmed I wonder when exactly Hulk will appear in the film? The whole thing? Just the end? Just the begging? Only the middle? Most hero films are 2 hours so we have plenty of time for them to explore most of this. Ragnarok has such potential. I truly hope they can utilize it.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

I still look forward to this film. I wonder if we'll get somethings from Comic Con. So far away. What characters are you expecting? I'm actually expecting Odin to be trapped by Hela. Hela is Loki's daughter in the comics, I think. I wonder if she fufills a similar role here. Not sure how old Loki is in the MCU. But being a god he's probably hundreds upon thousands of years old. So maybe. Or maybe Hela is just a friend that owes Loki a favor.

I wanted Surtur as well. But that may just feel like a rehash of Dormammu if Dormmamu is in strange. You know both being ancient evils of fire and all. So I'd rather have Dormammu in Strange than have Surtur in Thor. I'd like to see Thanos tear up Asgard and own Loki, Odin or Thor. Maybe all 3. Most likely Loki though, especially after his fail in Avengers.


Death would be nice as well. Thanos referencing his actions are for his love for Death. They think he means Hela but he really means THE Death. Then there's Thor and Hulk. While already confirmed I wonder when exactly Hulk will appear in the film? The whole thing? Just the end? Just the begging? Only the middle? Most hero films are 2 hours so we have plenty of time for them to explore most of this. Ragnarok has such potential. I truly hope they can utilize it.

Loki is just over a millennium old. We see in the movies that he's found by Odin in the war against the frost giants, and that took place in the 10th century. We also learned that Asgardians live to be about 5000 years old. I doubt they'll go with him having fathered offspring, let alone one that looks older than he, but I wouldn't deem it 100% impossible as Waititi seems to want to include weird things from the mythology.

I think Hela works better for the movie being mysterious and ancient though.

 

[ernesth100]

Agreed which is why I said its just a maybe. I wouldnt mind, but her being a mysterious like you said. Not exactly ancient though. I'd prefere Hela be old like most gods. But look youthful. Death of she appears should be the ancient looking one.

 

[MbJ]

The Dark World sucked it hard, but I have faith the new director will put out a good movie. It seems like Marvel realizes what made TDW not work.

 

[ALittlePush]

The Dark World sucked it hard, but I have faith the new director will put out a good movie. It seems like Marvel realizes what made TDW not work.

I quite liked TDW. Was there bits that could be improved? Yes but I don't think it was a bad movie overall.

 

[Sleiek]

I wouldn't say The Dark World is a bad movie. It has good parts. It's just I expected better for Thor.

 

[Mjölnir]

I really enjoyed The Dark World but it was still far off the best potential for a Thor movie. That's the reason why I'm happy that they are trying to revamp the franchise. Not because I haven't enjoyed what we've gotten, but because the potential is so high.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

I really enjoyed The Dark World but it was still far off the best potential for a Thor movie. That's the reason why I'm happy that they are trying to revamp the franchise. Not because I haven't enjoyed what we've gotten, but because the potential is so high.

Exactly. I personally feel it was great and it's my favorite Phase 2 film warts and all - but it's certainly fair to expect more from Thor. I don't think Marvel has done any disservice to the character. They've certainly got the characterization of the two most important leads down perfectly. Nothing they've done precludes future greatness. I'm extremely excited for Ragnarok. I'm still holding out hope for Surtur but the promise of Hela alone is a huge win and the movies have demonstrated they can play fast and loose with the canon while maintaining true to the spirit.

I'm also very excited about Hulk being in the film. The Thor/Hulk moments in the first Avengers movie were my favorite and I've always loved that dynamic. Defenders #10 is one of my all time favorite comic books.

 

[BoredGuy]

Yeah, TDW isn't really a bad movie
it's just not as awesome as the movie I saw in my head after Thor 1 and Avengers
Plus all the concept art and set photos looked so damn beautiful, Malekith looked great, Thor's costume was perfect...
it was very disappointing, more than actually 'bad'