TMOS Review & Speculation Thread (Spoilers) - Part 2

[DarthSkywalker]

In some ways, yes they tried to really deliver on the action with some legitimate big fights and I applaud that.

But aside from already seeing a lot of it in Matrix 3, at a certain point this action kinda' became like the car chase scene in Matrix 2...just kept going on and on and on, and sort of plateaued. Could have used some more dynamics.

I do like Cavill in the role....but I actually like him better with the more emotional stuff than the campy hero-like stuff.

What scene is like the car chase scene in Matrix 2? While the third act has the vast majority of the action it is all broken up, and very different.

 

[KalMart]

I didn't find that at all. It is definitely up there for me.

I didn't think so, he's still clearly behind the other recent heroes.

Didn't find it flat at all. Very character driven and vibrate. You are honestly throwing me with the missing bit. The movie is very direct and to the point of Clark and his need to ascend, but not sure what you believe is missing.

It's like it all felt more Cliffs Notes until the big action....like you get the information straight and direct, told that it happens, but you don't actually experience it. That's probably what some critics are pointing to when they (kinda' exaggeratedly) call it 'soulless' or hollow. I see it as feeling somewhat abbreviated.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Is it out of left field? I think it plays right alongside of the Jor-El and Zod about essentially feeling the same about all of these things, while going about them in vastly different ways.

It lacked some foreshadowing, but I was personally OK with that.

 

[KalMart]

What scene is like the car chase scene in Matrix 2? While the third act has the vast majority of the action it is all broken up, and very different.

Lots of the fighting at the end...just a bit too much punching/throwing/crashing when they could have moved on to something else, dynamically. Also liken it a bit to the hundreds of lightsabers in Star Wars Ep II. Felt like they could have done more with less.

It was also clear that the brunt of the movie's efforts were in the action, and again whatever preceded it was doe more out of obligation. of course not intended that way, but that's how it felt. It was enough for some, but that doesn't mean it was actually substantial. Which is fine if someone mainly wants to enjoy the action....but I would like there to have been more soul behind it.

 

[Tra-El]

Ah, good to be back in here and actually participate.

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Lots of the fighting at the end...just a bit too much punching/throwing/crashing when they could have moved on to something else, dynamically. Also liken it a bit to the hundreds of lightsabers in Star Wars Ep II. Felt like they could have done more with less.

It was also clear that the brunt of the movie's efforts were in the action, and again whatever preceded it was doe more out of obligation. of course not intended that way, but that's how it felt. It was enough for some, but that doesn't mean it was actually substantial. Which is fine if someone mainly wants to enjoy the action....but I would like there to have been more soul behind it.

While I stand by my enjoyment of MOS, I can agree that pacing could have been pulled back a bit. Perhaps a pace more along the lines of STID would have been beneficial?

 

[Saitou Hajime]

Just seen it here in the Philippines, and yeah... I can see where the critics might have a problem with this. The film doesn't know whether it wants to be a Nolan rendition of S:TM or carbon copy of DoTM. Need some more time to process my thoughts, but for the real sticklers:

Spoiler

I don't like how forced Lois' presence was into that second half. Faora takes her no discernible reason just so she can be put in the position to receive Jor-El's plan at stopping the Kryptonians. Then she's in the plane to the arm the Phantom Zone device, but doesn't even do that.

The destruction seemed to be needlessly excessive. Considering that none of the renegade Kryptonians can fly except for Zod in the end, I don't see why Superman couldn't have forced any of his opponents into a deserted location to fight there. Especially since Zod and Superman practically go into outer space at one point and still somehow managed to end up back into Metropolis (which managed to fix itself somehow in the interim). None of them seem to show any signs of damage throughout it all, which sort of takes away from the brutality of the fight. It's annoying how the carnage gets glossed over in the end; Smallville and Metropolis practically get put through the wringer yet everything's back to normal like nothing happened in the next 5 minutes. Avengers had at least some news reports to touch up on the aftermath even just a little bit.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I didn't think so, he's still clearly behind the other recent heroes.

Too each their own. After this, I have no doubt Superman is the man.

It's like it all felt more Cliffs Notes until the big action....like you get the information straight and direct, told that it happens, but you don't actually experience it. That's probably what some critics are pointing to when they (kinda' exaggeratedly) call it 'soulless' or hollow. I see it as feeling somewhat abbreviated.

But they aren't cliff notes. It is Clark remembering what lead him to where he is. We aren't suppose to watching the upbringing of Clark or anything like that. What is there is to bring an understanding to his struggle with himself and his purpose at that very moment in time. He is the good man willing to help those in need, but he can't make that extra step and we find out why.

Clark Kent is left almost lost, fragmented after his father's death. He is there, ready, willing and able. His dad seems ready to give him that permission he almost seeks and then he is gone. Clark really isn't even walking the Earth to find himself, he is stuck on pause.

It is only after meeting his birth father that he is able to get back on track, and even so he isn't truly ready. Lois acceptance of him is also pivotal as is his mother support.

 

[Heretic]

Being a HUGE Superman fan, I really wanted to come here and announce that this is the greatest superhero movie ever. Unfortunately, while it is good, it wouldn't make my top 5.

The action was great. FINALLY we see what Superman can do in a movie!

I know this is absurd...but some of the stuff that defied science really bothered me. When they created a black hole in the sky, the suction was so powerful that things on the ground were being pulled up...even Superman had to exert effort to fly out of it. Why was Supes up there??? Because Lois was right next to the black hole, and fell AWAY from it towards the ground. For some reason, Lois and Lois alone was immune to the pull of the black hole.

Speaking of Lois...her character really bothered me. I'll be honest in saying that I've always been a Lana guy...but this movie felt the need to force Lois into every situation, including those which she had NO business being a part of. They just needed to put her in danger over and over again just for the sake of giving her more to do.

Speaking of both of those points...the gravity device thing was destroying the ground...flattening cars...and yet people were running right past the cars being flattened or thrown into the air. The Daily Planet staff were not affected by a force that was destroying everything around them. It's another example of the film wanting to give the supporting characters something to do, at the expense of believability. I know...its a movie about aliens with super powers...but still.

I enjoyed the fight scenes, but feel disappointed and kind of empty afterwards.

 

[miltonh]

I don't use this site very often but I saw a lot of 7/10 and 8/10 reviews here so my question is: Which movie you'd prefer? Man of Steel or Superman Returns? Thank you and have a great day.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Just seen it here in the Philippines, and yeah... I can see where the critics might have a problem with this. The film doesn't know whether it wants to be a Nolan rendition of S:TM or carbon copy of DoTM. Need some more time to process my thoughts, but for the real sticklers:

Spoiler

I don't like how forced Lois' presence was into that second half. Faora takes her no discernible reason just so she can be put in the position to receive Jor-El's plan at stopping the Kryptonians. Then she's in the plane to the arm the Phantom Zone device, but doesn't even do that.

The destruction seemed to be needlessly excessive. Considering that none of the renegade Kryptonians can fly except for Zod in the end, I don't see why Superman couldn't have forced any of his opponents into a deserted location to fight there. Especially since Zod and Superman practically go into outer space at one point and still somehow managed to end up back into Metropolis (which managed to fix itself somehow in the interim). None of them seem to show any signs of damage throughout it all, which sort of takes away from the brutality of the fight. It's annoying how the carnage gets glossed over in the end; Smallville and Metropolis practically get put through the wringer yet everything's back to normal like nothing happened in the next 5 minutes. Avengers had at least some news reports to touch up on the aftermath even just a little bit.

Lois is on the ship because they know she knows who Clark is. They want to interrogate here to find out things about Clark.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It lacked some foreshadowing, but I was personally OK with that.

They mention terraforming earlier, but not sure how much foreshadowing is needed. Especially considering it is suppose to be a bit of a shock.

Lots of the fighting at the end...just a bit too much punching/throwing/crashing when they could have moved on to something else, dynamically. Also liken it a bit to the hundreds of lightsabers in Star Wars Ep II. Felt like they could have done more with less.

Like? When does this happen. Honestly. I got out of the movie about 4 hours ago now. When does this happen? The fighting at the end is literally Superman vs. Zod. That is it. And it is not that long. Maybe a little over 5 mins and plenty of build up. There is action, but it is all plot and character driven.

It was also clear that the brunt of the movie's efforts were in the action, and again whatever preceded it was doe more out of obligation. of course not intended that way, but that's how it felt. It was enough for some, but that doesn't mean it was actually substantial. Which is fine if someone mainly wants to enjoy the action....but I would like there to have been more soul behind it.

Disagree completely. You don't film scenes like that, with so much care and beauty out of obligation. And I found it actually substantial.

 

[KalMart]

Being a HUGE Superman fan, I really wanted to come here and announce that this is the greatest superhero movie ever. Unfortunately, while it is good, it wouldn't make my top 5.

The action was great. FINALLY we see what Superman can do in a movie!

I know this is absurd...but some of the stuff that defied science really bothered me. When they created a black hole in the sky, the suction was so powerful that things on the ground were being pulled up...even Superman had to exert effort to fly out of it. Why was Supes up there??? Because Lois was right next to the black hole, and fell AWAY from it towards the ground. For some reason, Lois and Lois alone was immune to the pull of the black hole.

Speaking of Lois...her character really bothered me. I'll be honest in saying that I've always been a Lana guy...but this movie felt the need to force Lois into every situation, including those which she had NO business being a part of. They just needed to put her in danger over and over again just for the sake of giving her more to do.

Speaking of both of those points...the gravity device thing was destroying the ground...flattening cars...and yet people were running right past the cars being flattened of thrown into the air. The Daily Planet staff were not affected by a force that was destroying everything around them. It's another example of the film wanting to give the supporting characters something to do, at the expense of believability. I know...its a movie about aliens with super powers...but still.

I enjoyed the fight scenes, but feel disappointed and kind of empty afterwards.

I thought the movie felt like that during most of it. It was fun while it was kicking away....overall though, this movie happened, but didn't resonate.

 

[Tra-El]

Lois is on the ship because they know she knows who Clark is. They want to interrogate here to find out things about Clark.

Yep. When General Zod was in the hallucination chamber and talking to Clark in Smallville, Faora was doing the same to Lois. When Supes saves Lois, Lois apologizes to Clark saying "They somehow got inside me and picked my brain for information" with Supes responding kindly "It's okay, they did it to me too.."

 

[The Shape]

I enjoyed so much of MOS, so it was a success in my eyes. They succeeded in what seemed like their main goal -- making Superman cool again. The film, overall, was very true to the character and the mythos, despite the addition of new Kryptonian elements. This WAS Superman, in spirit and appearance. Cavill nailed it, as did most of the cast. The film has it's weak moments, many of which have already been discussed to death around here, but I definitely think the good out-weighed the bad in the grand scheme of things.

At this rate, we're so used to seeing origin stories that it's getting tiring. There's no way to start a new Superman series without retreading the core elements we've seen before: opening scene on Krypton, growing up with the Kents, developing his powers, learning about himself from Jor-El, etc. The first quarter of MOS was a little awkward and all over the place, but I liked Snyder's spin on things. It was cool to see Clark wandering and unsure of himself, leaving a trail of good deeds in his wake. All little different (and more realistic) than leaving Smallville and donning the suit right away.

My main gripes are the extreme focus on alien tech on earth and the sheer level of destruction. I could see why some critics would roll their eyes at the second half of the film, especially older folks. This is the kind of movie my Dad (early 60s) would hate. There's just so much BING BANG BOOM CGI BOOM BANG SLAM action that it does feel relentless at times, but I ate it up and loved it. There are some really amazing moments and so much impressive action that it's a lot to take in on one viewing. The final Zod/Supes fight is really special, IMO. Totally badass in every way.

As I said, the amount of destruction bothers me, not because I'm upset or uncomfortable about the amount of innocents who must have died, or that it evoked 9/11 imagery. No problem there. It's a sci-fi disaster movie at its core, so that wasn't a problem. My problem is just that nearly all of Metropolis looked like it was leveled. We're talking No Man's Land here. Realistically, it would take decades to bring the city remotely close to what it once was. Even if Superman spent a lot of time helping to rebuild to speed up the process, the amount of money it would cost would be astronomical. Also, what kind of threat is next that tops this one? Near-worldwide destruction? Where do they go from here?

Interestingly, I think the destruction leaves good opportunity for a shining, wealthy public figure like Lex Luthor to step in and offer a helping hand. Lex...or Bruce Wayne.

 

[BH/HHH]

Ah, good to be back in here and actually participate.

I've got one more day stupid sister in-law having to get married today of all days ahhhhh!

 

[Heretic]

Yep. When General Zod was in the hallucination chamber and talking to Clark in Smallville, Faora was doing the same to Lois. When Supes saves Lois, Lois apologizes to Clark saying "They somehow got inside me and picked my brain for information" with Supes responding kindly "It's okay, they did it to me too.."

Just for kicks...how did Zod know that she knew his secret identity...and why did she even really need to be at the surrender spot to begin with?

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

I think Clark not being a part of the DP for 99.9% of the film had something to do with Lois being brought INTO the action. Normally you see her mostly through interaction with Clark/DP and that was not an option with this type of origin.

 

[KalMart]

They mention terraforming earlier, but not sure how much foreshadowing is needed. Especially considering it is suppose to be a bit of a shock.


Like? When does this happen. Honestly. I got out of the movie about 4 hours ago now. When does this happen? The fighting at the end is literally Superman vs. Zod. That is it. And it is not that long. Maybe a little over 5 mins and plenty of build up. There is action, but it is all plot and character driven.

Yeah, by the time it gets to the brawl between Superman and Zod...we've already seen a lot of brawling/throwing/crashing, so it didn't really offer a peak/climax to all the action. It was just more of it.

It's like if you had Bruce Lee go up the 'levels of death' challenges...but each level was the same sort of fight/weapons.

It wasn't 'driven' so much as it felt obligatory.

Disagree completely. You don't film scenes like that, with so much care and beauty out of obligation. And I found it actually substantial.

Substantial in quantity, but not really in depth and resonance. Maybe that's too much to ask, but this film just didn't deliver that way. That's fine if you felt differently, but it just didn't.

But anyway, no point in going in circles. if you enjoyed the movie, then great...I'm glad that if supes fans did. I didn't think it was very good, but I'm not as emotionally invested either way in the character's success or lack thereof as others may be.

 

[The Shape]

Lois is on the ship because they know she knows who Clark is. They want to interrogate here to find out things about Clark.

Exactly. They got into her head like Zod got into Clark's. This lead Zod to Martha Kent. Lois even apologizes to Clark for giving them the info, indirectly.

 

[Tra-El]

I've got one more day stupid sister in-law having to get married today of all days ahhhhh!

It's all good dude! Just know, your time in the sun is coming, haha.

My overall feelings is that this is an absolutley FANTASTIC comic-book Superman movie that spoke to you through reality. Standing from a Superman film on its merits, it delivers in a big way. Though not a perfect movie all around (room for improvement for the sequel) it's a GREAT Superman flick. I'm ecstatic.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

Lois is on the ship because they know she knows who Clark is. They want to interrogate here to find out things about Clark.

Yep. When General Zod was in the hallucination chamber and talking to Clark in Smallville, Faora was doing the same to Lois. When Supes saves Lois, Lois apologizes to Clark saying "They somehow got inside me and picked my brain for information" with Supes responding kindly "It's okay, they did it to me too.."

Yeah, but there wasn't anything they could've gleaned from her that they couldn't have gotten from Supes himself.

 

[Arta]

7/10. Liked the movie in spite of Goyer (more on that in a second). Not as good a movie as Batman Begins but the characters are likable enough that you want to see how their story would develop in sequels. I loved that the story dared to switch up parts of the canon to make the story fresh.

Spoiler

Except for the beginning with Russell Crowe riding dragonflies wtf . I understand thry want to show how different and harsh planet Krypton was, but this was zany even for a Star Wars. Had Nolan been more involved on a script level, he would have circled that section with a red marker several times before burning it while Goyer cried.

I LOVED how Lois straight up knew who Superman was in this movie and the secret identity wasn't even a big deal. To me the potential for their dynamic in future films, where she gets to see the man behind the suit, is much more interesting than Lois being an idiot being fooled by glasses.

For years people have complained that David Goyer, while a great ideas guy, was always the mediocre half of the duo that plotted out the Dark Knight movies, and this film is final proof. Without the Nolan giving the script a final polish, this movie is littered with clunky lines and the only reason I didn't groan at them was that the actors sold then with such eagerness I instead mentally patted them on the head.

The only actor who didn't really pulled this off was Zod. I thought Shannon was terrible in this movie to be honest. He was speechifying his intentions ALL THE ****ING TIME and it didn't help that he sounded like a Star Trek captain talking about "prepare the positron magnitron" or whatever the ****. Faora was much more intimidating; if she had decided to cut off babbling Zod's head off and decided to take over Earth, she'd probably win.

As earnest as this movie was, I still felt there was some moments that didn't feel earned.

Spoiler

Superman getting the suit all of a sudden. It's jarring when this lost soul stumbles in seeking answers, a hologram of his father shows him a suit and says "hold dat" and then al of a sudden Clark is walking out like a king.

Pa Kent dying. Doesn't feel tragic cause it doesn't make any ****ing sense. The entire town is aware or suspicious of what Clark can do, he could have done something to save his father. It is a nice affirmation on Pa Kent's belief that Clark should protect his secret at all costs, even at his life. It's the dying in the tornado setup that doesn't ring true.

And I don't have a problem with the raw idea of Superman killing to save people. He's done it a couple times in the comic books. It's just that in the comic books, he's almost always found another way to win other than killing and lives by that rule, that when he does do it it's profound, cause you know for a fact he had no other choice. If Superman snapping someone's neck had occurred in a 2nd or 3rd film after his no kill rule had been built up, his anguish might have worked better. What I'm saying is I understood the scene, I just didn't feel it. :]

Amd really, if Superman had enough strength to snap Zod's neck, he should have had enough strength to turn his head away and knock him out or something.

Not a review, just my mind pouring out on paper after seeing this. I'm going to see this movie again and enjoy it, and hope that in the sequel Goyed gets relegated to story credits while someone like Jonathan Nolan come in a do the heavy lifting with the script.

 

[The Shape]

I've got one more day stupid sister in-law having to get married today of all days ahhhhh!

So I guess you don't care that you've spoiled the entire movie for yourself by participating in this thread?

 

[Tra-El]

Just for kicks...how did Zod know that she knew his secret identity...and why did she even really need to be at the surrender spot to begin with?

At that point, it was widely and nationally known that Lois Lane was the only human acquaintance they could use against humans as collateral.

Remember, it broke ALL over the news and Superman and Lois was talking one on one in a personal manor in the interrogation room when the military announced that by Zod's request, they have permission to turn Supes over to him.

At that point, if anybody, Lois Lane is the known being closest to Superman to pick information off of, which led to The Kent farm trail.