TMOS Review & Speculation Thread (Spoilers) - Part 2

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kguillou said:
I respectfully disagree that there is ANY lack of suspense in this movie.
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At no point do you feel Lois or Superman's lives are in immediate grave danger, do you?

Superman always get up and fight foes without any sense of danger to me.
 
What will matter for MOS is obviously it needs a big opening weekend and what will the Cinema Score be for the Movie? A score of an A or A- should be mean good WOM which is vital..
 
I just got back from my 2nd viewing.

And now.... I've got some recanting to do from my original hatred spewed review....

Man of Steel: The resolve of steel on a 2nd showing....


I sit here.... weird.

I'm just like the rotten tomatoes score on this damn movie. And no, it's not a flip-flop mentality on behalf of a notion to bend to public opinion, but rather........ idk it's just weird.

Tonight I saw MoS for a 2nd time and now that I've spent most of my day making 12 year olds cry via message board debates, I'm seeing the film in a different light.

And not a brighter one as this showing was in 3D as well. That stance has not changed. The 3D lends nothing. Pass on it if at all possible. I swear to you, that stance will not flip flop.

Anywho - most of the issues I debated today became heavily engrained in my mind because I got so riled up about them as I debated them. That being said - these viewpoints of mine have changed:

1) The side characters other than Lois and Jor-El. They do do more than I originally took in, but their roles are still limited. Credit should be given more to these performances. Christopher Meloni and Richard Schiff are the only two weak links in my honest opinion. And it's interesting that those two characters ended up sharing the same fate.

2) The fights and CGI Superman - This is the aspect that changed the most for me as I was watching with a much more keen eye than before. The graphics were much better than I remember from my first viewing. While still not perfect and still stand out as fake - they're more tolerable than I originally stated. The problem I have here isn't my usual ***** and moan about the lighting, but rather - no one can seem to figure out how to translate weight accurately in the digital realm.

3) It's better than Green Lantern. That was an unfair equivalent. The difference maker here is the lack of camp that GL had and the strong performances in the supporting realm in MoS.

4) The heart of this film is a little more evident but it's really little thumps here and there by side characters. But it's more than before.



Now -- all that said these issues remain and have been somewhat redefined and/or reenforced:

1) The entire build up to Superman centers on a quiet quiet Clark Kent. The problem I realized here is the very minimal dialogue he has AS Clark. As my friend pointed out, he's Superman the whole damn movie. He DOES Superman things but to me - there's more to him than just saving people and doing good. He should preach good as well. My problem is that Clark / Superman isn't so pronounced as he should be as a character. He's not bold, rich and outright in his conflicting with humanity. The Superman I want not only does good, but INSPIRES good. That's what was lacking for me. And no he doesn't have to be the boyscout scooping kittens out of the tree, but his character needs to do more than just do. He needs to inspire. He doesn't. That's the missing component from the character. And it's not a Donnerverse thing, or a Singer, or smallville - that's a comic book thing. And yes it's necessary and yes it can fit in this "real world." It's one of the best aspects of the character of Superman and right now it's missing. I can get over it because this is just the start and they do need things to keep it interesting. But I would have really loved just a taste of it.

2) The fights. Yes the action is awesome - but there's still a lack of emotion out of the fights. Mainly because there is nothing at stake. No characters that I care about are ever in any real jeopardy. Christopher Nolan knew this when he created Rachel Dawes in Batman Begins. The problem he encountered was that she was a boring character that no one gave a **** about and she had bad actresses portraying her. Here - there is nothing at stake during the fights. We all know he's going to save metropolis and Lois ain't dying. The threat of something detrimental happening needs to be done better. In all of the Nolan movies - there were things at stake. TDK had gordon's son, TDKR had Batman himself. MoS needs to grasp this aspect in the future.

3) Zod - I'm sorry. He does evil things. But up until a certain point of the movie - he's still not an evil enough character for me. A hero is best defined by his villain. And while it's leaps and bounds above former ones - the threat Zod presents against superman for a majority of the movie is quite out of proportion. It's odd that in a film the hero wins the first fight against his enemy... and then the 2nd. Zod is not booked correctly as a threat to Superman. Superman really needed to get his ass handed to him by Zod, not his henchwench or anyone else in the first fight. That's what creates drama and an investment in the final fight - which is why I didn't feel it last time. That said - by the end of the final fight - they get Zod and Supes where they need to be. My gripe is that it didn't happen sooner and expel more into interesting details on that conflict.

4) Zod in Superman's mind / Acid weed trip smoking sequence and the obvious cut scene involving Lois with the same. I'm not going into detail onto this one for spoiler reasons - but when you see it and are like "What the eff just happened?" You'll know what I'm talking about.

That's where we are. Steel holds up now that my expectations were adjusted properly. It's still not a perfect film. But it's better than I originally thought.


7.5 / 10 - It ain't no Batman Begins ;)


PS: it threw me that actor Alessandro Juliani who played Dr. Hamilton on multiple episodes of Smallville shows up here as a random army dude.

- Jow
 
Off the top of my head:
Superman Returns made money but they tacked on the failed versions budget so that may not count
The Last Arirbender made a ton of money but got such a backlash they stopped making another
 
Just got back from the walmart screening. 5 out of 10. First, the action was good....and that was it.

Let me get this out of the way, the weak links were the casting of Amy Adams and Michael Shannon....and to a point the Faura chick was terrible. Adams is way to nice to be believable as an investigative journalist/reporter. Her scene in the cemetery with Clark was cringe worthy. She's too much of a sweetheart...and she had zero chemistry with Cavill. Their kiss did nothing for me. As for Cavill, he tried to channel Reeve too much ala Routh did...and failed. Now for Shannon. He needs to stick to being the fifth or sixth credit of a movie. He's not main character worthy. Stamp's Zod was ten times better and Stamp isn't that great of an actor either. The movie had no flow. Every ten minutes there was a flashback. Pa Kent was a heartless bastard. Superman should always save lives even if it costs him his. The ending, I'm fine with how Zod died. But what was so f'n terrible...how Clark now decides to be a reporter at the planet. No journalism degree needed...wtf! and the biggest fail...the world knows Clark Kent is superman. I mean the police took Lois to his damn house. The Clark residence. It's no secret anymore. So Snyder is a moron to give us that ridiculous ending. Very good action but emotionless and some bad casting and dialogue. That's my take. The scenes with Crowe were the best parts. He brought it.
 
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Manosman said:
WB kind of put all their eggs into one basket with this. If they want an eventual JL they'll have to keep moving with this universe. I'd say we are pretty much guaranteed a MOS sequel. Having seen MOS I'm all on board for part 2.
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No they won't if the movie is not a major hit.. SR fell below expectation MOS has to make up for it..
 
MLSkinner said:
Just got back from the walmart screening. 5 out of 10. First, the action was good....and that was it. Let me get this out of the way, the weak links were the casting of Amy Adams and Michael Shannon....and to a point the Faura chick was terrible. Adams is way to nice to be believable as an investigative journalist/reporter. Her scene in the cemetery with Clark was cringe worthy. She's too much of a sweetheart...and she had zero chemistry with Cavill. Their kiss did nothing for me. As for Cavill, he tried to channel Reeve too much ala Routh did...and failed. Now for Shannon. He needs to stick to being the fifth or sixth credit of a movie. He's not main character worthy. Stamp's Zod was ten times better and Stamp isn't that great of an actor either. The movie had no flow. Every ten minutes there was a flashback. Pa Kent was a heartless bastard. Superman should always save lives even if it costs him his. The ending, I'm fine with how Zod died. But what was so f'n terrible...how Clark now decides to be a reporter at the planet. No journalism degree needed...wtf! and the biggest fail...the world knows Clark Kent is superman. I mean the police took Lois to his damn house. The Clark residence. It's no secret anymore. So Snyder is a moron to give us that ridiculous ending. Very good action but emotionless and some bad casting and dialogue. That's my take. The scenes with Crowe were the best parts. He brought it.
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"the police took Lois to his damn house"- when does this happen? what is the context of it
 
MLSkinner said:
Just got back from the walmart screening. 5 out of 10. First, the action was good....and that was it. Let me get this out of the way, the weak links were the casting of Amy Adams and Michael Shannon....and to a point the Faura chick was terrible. Adams is way to nice to be believable as an investigative journalist/reporter. Her scene in the cemetery with Clark was cringe worthy. She's too much of a sweetheart...and she had zero chemistry with Cavill. Their kiss did nothing for me. As for Cavill, he tried to channel Reeve too much ala Routh did...and failed. Now for Shannon. He needs to stick to being the fifth or sixth credit of a movie. He's not main character worthy. Stamp's Zod was ten times better and Stamp isn't that great of an actor either. The movie had no flow. Every ten minutes there was a flashback. Pa Kent was a heartless bastard. Superman should always save lives even if it costs him his. The ending, I'm fine with how Zod died. But what was so f'n terrible...how Clark now decides to be a reporter at the planet. No journalism degree needed...wtf! and the biggest fail...the world knows Clark Kent is superman. I mean the police took Lois to his damn house. The Clark residence. It's no secret anymore. So Snyder is a moron to give us that ridiculous ending. Very good action but emotionless and some bad casting and dialogue. That's my take. The scenes with Crowe were the best parts. He brought it.
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to each his own i guess, my family and i enjoyed it very much. 9/10 for me.
 
bizarroelaine said:
"the police took Lois to his damn house"- when does this happen? what is the context of it
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After the big fight in town. He goes to his house to check on ma kent. moments later, police arrive and she gets out and goes to him.
 
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My score: 7-10 (Editing was chopped, could def tell there was more to the film they had to cut, which had me questioniny some scenes. Henry could have been better in some scenes, like when Zods message aired, he couod have showed some fear or emotion in has face, no reaction out of him. Some lines it felt like he was reading a script, which it shouldnt have. Also, he shouldnt have been so tormented later in the movie after he was excepted by the army as a friend, he could have cheered up a bit, but thats my personal opinion. Hope he shows more carisma through-out the next movie, yes he has carisma in this, but it was inconsistent through-out. Overall im happy with his performance.

My friend Katie: 7-1/2 out of 10, said she will def be buying the BluRay.

My woman: 8-10

My step daughter (17 yrs old): 7-10 , said wasnt the best movie, but good.

Her friend (17 aswell): 7-10

My buddy (40 yrs old big sups fan): 12-10 (Yes he loved it that much).
 
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MLSkinner said:
After the big fight in town. He goes to his house to check on ma kent. moments later, police arrive and she gets out and goes to him.
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why does she go to him? does this mean that the military are aware that clark=sups
 
The police taking her to the house isn't an issue. For all copper knew Supes was checking on a civilian. It's when Lois gets out of the cop car and screams "Clark!"

That was kind of like... ummmmmm hello? There's a cop RIGHT THERE.

lol

- Jow
 
Anjow1060 said:
The police taking her to the house isn't an issue. For all copper knew Supes was checking on a civilian. It's when Lois gets out of the cop car and screams "Clark!"

That was kind of like... ummmmmm hello? There's a cop RIGHT THERE.

lol

- Jow
Click to expand...


They are SO careless with Lois and Superman's secret identity issue in this movie it really really is the WORST thing about this movie. CRINGEWORTHY as hell when watching the movie *sigh*
 
Tanin said:
Off the top of my head:
Superman Returns made money but they tacked on the failed versions budget so that may not count
The Last Arirbender made a ton of money but got such a backlash they stopped making another
Click to expand...

Eh, that seemed more to do with Singer and the Superman case, which ended up forcing them to make MOS.

:funny: Ok, I'll give you TLA. But, they pretty much killed that franchise from the start. And I doubt merchandise and DVD/Bluray sales were all that great in their eyes too.
 
While I am still going to see It later this month It seems like from reviews It's not the second coming some thought It would be.

From what I have made out from reviews the film seemed more worryied about action sequenzes than plot and characters.Not to mention the reimaging of Superman lore and so called realistic take.

I am going to laugh my butt off If final score on RT remains lower than Superman Returns.

Now to be fair My faith in Critics has been weakened after decent reviews for Iron Man 3 which I hated.
 
Anjow1060 said:
The police taking her to the house isn't an issue. For all copper knew Supes was checking on a civilian. It's when Lois gets out of the cop car and screams "Clark!"

That was kind of like... ummmmmm hello? There's a cop RIGHT THERE.

lol

- Jow
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Exactly. His identity is far from secret.
 
Norminator79 said:
No they don't
[/QUOTE

If the military doesn't know at the end...then the word "FAIL" should be stamped on their foreheads. The police transported her to his residence..his farm. Lois shouted out Clark! With all the news networks and reporters around smallville, it's a no brainer everyone knows.
Click to expand...
 
WOW. Just got back from Wal-Mart screening. This movie is amazing! Can't believe any Superman fan would rate returns over this. Mind blowing, just like the film. I can't see this not cleaning up at the box office. BTW the final scene with Zod was not a problem for me. Supes had to do the same thing in the 80's Byrne run.
 
MLSkinner said:
Just got back from the walmart screening. 5 out of 10. First, the action was good....and that was it.

Let me get this out of the way, the weak links were the casting of Amy Adams and Michael Shannon....and to a point the Faura chick was terrible. Adams is way to nice to be believable as an investigative journalist/reporter. Her scene in the cemetery with Clark was cringe worthy. She's too much of a sweetheart...and she had zero chemistry with Cavill. Their kiss did nothing for me. As for Cavill, he tried to channel Reeve too much ala Routh did...and failed. Now for Shannon. He needs to stick to being the fifth or sixth credit of a movie. He's not main character worthy. Stamp's Zod was ten times better and Stamp isn't that great of an actor either. The movie had no flow. Every ten minutes there was a flashback. Pa Kent was a heartless bastard. Superman should always save lives even if it costs him his. The ending, I'm fine with how Zod died. But what was so f'n terrible...how Clark now decides to be a reporter at the planet. No journalism degree needed...wtf! and the biggest fail...the world knows Clark Kent is superman. I mean the police took Lois to his damn house. The Clark residence. It's no secret anymore. So Snyder is a moron to give us that ridiculous ending. Very good action but emotionless and some bad casting and dialogue. That's my take. The scenes with Crowe were the best parts. He brought it.
Click to expand...

Interesting take...
While you might be on with the character development the Cavill and Reeve comment is incorrect. Cavill already stated that he based his performance on the comics alone and not from any previous motion pictures.
 
MLSkinner said:
Norminator79 said:
No they don't
[/QUOTE

If the military doesn't know at the end...then the word "FAIL" should be stamped on their foreheads. The police transported her to his residence..his farm. Lois shouted out Clark! With all the news networks and reporters around smallville, it's a no brainer everyone knows.
Click to expand...

It's a cover up I tell you! A cover up! :woot:
Click to expand...
 
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