The Dark Knight Rises Tom Hardy as Bane XIV

[Mako]

SO ANYWAY.

Tom makes a mention about TDKR and the fanboys here: http://bcove.me/cjmavzas

Bane should only drink teeny tiny cups of tea in this movie

 

[DoomsdayApex]

**Why does anyone assume I'm in 'madness' mode when I'm not screaming at anyone? I believe I've been calm and civil. This is exactly why I do not state my unpopular opinions because the Mods and Members clearly cannot distinguish the difference between the two.**


This debate will obviously go nowhere. Your entitled to your own opinion, but when you start trying to justify ANY 'immortal' image the Joker carries then that's another threshold I will bother to cross.

If fans respond to a character, then yes my friend, writers will be biased when coming to designing an arc for the character. It's been happening on TV shows and films for decades. Again, you might call it conjecture or idiotic banter, but there's no denying this. Catwoman and Penguin ARE more notable than Bane for that fact alone.

I enjoy the fact that you labeled me as biased and blind because I am not a 35 year old who has spent 25 years of my life reading comics. Please excuse my age and poverty-stricken household for that inconvience. YES, I am not a 100% knowledgable on the Joker's history, but I know quite enough to establish a proper analysis when coming to the history I've already read based on patterns and behavior. Yes, the Joker has evolved but because the writers had no choice to branch him out as some type of "Super-Villain". In fact, wasn't there a stretch where Batman comics suffered from one-dimensionalism in the early 40's, late-50s, mid-80s, etc? Furthermore, each villain in the Bat Universe started out as a 'theme' villain. True, is it not?

There is no vicious backlash towards DC for the Knightfall arc, when coming to the defeat of Bane, but when you read reviews and comments regarding the way Bane was protrayed and eventually used, then it becomes crystal clear that the writers only used Bane as a stepping stone. A hollow empty feeling presides. Fans who read the arc found the defeat of Bane as too simplistic and elementary for a man who possessed Batman's intellect and superhuman strength to be defeated at the hands Azrael in the fashion that he did.

Sure, they could have gone opposite routes but they didn't, and that's the point. I'm sure you've read more comics than me so with your intimate history with these graphic novels, you're going to sit there and tell me that wasn't biased lazy writing, and yet the Joker surviving attacks from superhuman and/or alien characters isn't? I don't exact view that as brilliant writing, but that's my opinion.

The Joker started out as a goofy thief, and then a decade later, was promoted as a psychotic killer. So let me ask you this, if both Bane and Joker share a substanial amount of characteristics and qualities like you say, why does the element of unpredictability conquer over patience and precision? Is that a biased opinion or does it truly hold weight when coming to some of the world's masters of warfare? Cuz' I gotta tell you, a scissor takedown or flying armbar isn't going to work every time in a fight. Unpredictability and the element of surprise can only take you so far before it shatters in the hands of a stronger opponent who is unflinching or has nothing to lose.

Thank you for this enlightening debate but because of our undying love for our favorite characters, I fear we may never look eye to eye. In your eyes, the Joker is a gifted genius who is leagues ahead of every villain in DC. Therefore, no matter what I say or present will never leave a mark.

Good day.

 

[Lily Adler]

That's good, for a minute I thought I would have to use this:

 

[I'm Not a Hero]

**Why does anyone assume I'm in 'madness' mode when I'm not screaming at anyone? I believe I've been calm and civil. This is exactly why I do not state my unpopular opinions because the Mods and Members clearly cannot distinguish the difference between the two.**


This debate will obviously go nowhere. Your entitled to your own opinion, but when you start trying to justify ANY 'immortal' image the Joker carries then that's another threshold I will bother to cross.

If fans respond to a character, then yes my friend, writers will be biased when coming to designing an arc for the character. It's been happening on TV shows and films for decades. Again, you might call it conjecture or idiotic banter, but there's no denying this. Catwoman and Penguin ARE more notable than Bane for that fact alone.

I enjoy the fact that you labeled me as biased and blind because I am not a 35 year old who has spent 25 years of my life reading comics. Please excuse my age and poverty-stricken household for that inconvience. YES, I am not a 100% knowledgable on the Joker's history, but I know quite enough to establish a proper analysis when coming to the history I've already read based on patterns and behavior. Yes, the Joker has evolved but because the writers had no choice to branch him out as some type of "Super-Villain". In fact, wasn't there a stretch where Batman comics suffered from one-dimensionalism in the early 40's, late-50s, mid-80s, etc? Furthermore, each villain in the Bat Universe started out as a 'theme' villain. True, is it not?

There is no vicious backlash towards DC for the Knightfall arc, when coming to the defeat of Bane, but when you read reviews and comments regarding the way Bane was protrayed and eventually used, then it becomes crystal clear that the writers only used Bane as a stepping stone. A hollow empty feeling presides. Fans who read the arc found the defeat of Bane as too simplistic and elementary for a man who possessed Batman's intellect and superhuman strength to be defeated at the hands Azrael in the fashion that he did.

Sure, they could have gone opposite routes but they didn't, and that's the point. I'm sure you've read more comics than me so with your intimate history with these graphic novels, you're going to sit there and tell me that wasn't biased lazy writing, and yet the Joker surviving attacks from superhuman and/or alien characters isn't? I don't exact view that as brilliant writing, but that's my opinion.

The Joker started out as a goofy thief, and then a decade later, was promoted as a psychotic killer. So let me ask you this, if both Bane and Joker share a substanial amount of characteristics and qualities like you say, why does the element of unpredictability conquer over patience and precision? Is that a biased opinion or does it truly hold weight when coming to some of the world's masters of warfare? Cuz' I gotta tell you, a scissor takedown or flying armbar isn't going to work every time in a fight. Unpredictability and the element of surprise can only take you so far before it shatters in the hands of a stronger opponent who is unflinching or has nothing to lose.

Thank you for this enlightening debate but because of our undying love for our favorite characters, I fear we may never look eye to eye. In your eyes, the Joker is a gifted genius who is leagues ahead of every villain in DC. Therefore, no matter what I say or present will never leave a mark.

Good day.

/thread

 

[Blue Sugar]

Haha, Hardy kidding with fanboys is hilariously awesome.

 

[Blue Sugar]

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Good heavens... You sir, can argue.
Hats off to you for being the only one analysing this from a writers' convenience perspective, and not focusing on DC universe history.

Thank you. I feel that only focusing on DC Universe History is alittle irresponsible. The characters can only go as far as the writers decide. I thank the Heavens that Nolan & crew looked beyond the clumsy writing, saw what us fans viewed in the character Bane, and chose him as the final threat to Batman in his trilogy. I see it rather fitting.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Just saw it.

 

[KRIM]

SO ANYWAY.

Tom makes a mention about TDKR and the fanboys here: http://bcove.me/cjmavzas

Bane should only drink teeny tiny cups of tea in this movie

Having a crack at forced perspective? C'mon, who here isn't convinced Hardy has most definitely visited these boards?

 

[I'm Not a Hero]

WOAHHH! HE LOOKS HUGE!!!!

 

[Travesty]

Thank you. I feel that only focusing on DC Universe History is alittle irresponsible.

The characters can only go as far as the writers decide. I thank the Heavens that Nolan & crew looked beyond the clumsy writing, saw what us fans viewed in the character Bane, and chose him as the final threat to Batman in his trilogy. I see it rather fitting.

You have no idea what Nolan is going to do with Bane.

As for the so called "clumsy writing" of the comics, yes, I think the Nolan's really hit it out of the ball park with "take control of your city. This is the instrument of your liberation". Just the way it rolls off the tongue is like pure poetry.

 

[venus_ice]

Having a crack at forced perspective? C'mon, who here isn't convinced Hardy has most definitely visited these boards?

I bet he has. It excites me. It terrifies me.

 

[The Joker]

This debate will obviously go nowhere. Your entitled to your own opinion, but when you start trying to justify ANY 'immortal' image the Joker carries then that's another threshold I will bother to cross.

Then cross it. I'll be ready and willing to discuss any points you want to make.

If fans respond to a character, then yes my friend, writers will be biased when coming to designing an arc for the character. It's been happening on TV shows and films for decades.

Again by that logic then the likes of Catwoman, Penguin, Two Face etc should be considered Batman's arch enemies since they were responded to with huge popularity, too.

Why were none of them not written to be as effective enemies to Batman as the Joker was?

Again, you might call it conjecture or idiotic banter, but there's no denying this. Catwoman and Penguin ARE more notable than Bane for that fact alone.

More notable yes, but they are not his arch enemies. That's what you said. Here's the quote from your post:

The only reason why the Joker is this famous and the reason why he's transformed into this arch-nemesis role is because of his incredibly LONG history with the company.

I mean no offense, but at this point you are just tripping over your own words.

I enjoy the fact that you labeled me as biased and blind because I am not a 35 year old who has spent 25 years of my life reading comics. Please excuse my age and poverty-stricken household for that inconvience.

Spare me the melodrama, man. You're not on Jerry Springer or Dr. Phil here. I have not mocked you or derided you in any way for your lack of comic book knowledge. It was you who willingly confessed to that, and I pointed out that you cannot assassinate a character who's comic book history you've barely touched on.

I've read all of Bane's stuff first hand, that's why I can come into this discussion fully armed with the facts about him and can make accurate comparisons of him to the Joker.

YES, I am not a 100% knowledgable on the Joker's history, but I know quite enough to establish a proper analysis when coming to the history I've already read based on patterns and behavior.

Obviously you don't since you've made so many wrong assumptions about him already. Even in the movies which you've supposedly seen him in, you completely misconstrued what he was doing.

So forgive me if I don't place any faith in your supposed knowledge of second hand information of decades worth of stories you've never read.

Yes, the Joker has evolved but because the writers had no choice to branch him out as some type of "Super-Villain".

The writers had every choice not to do that. Who was putting a gun to their heads and making them increase his status in villainy? Nobody. They made that decision because they saw the potential of the character.

In fact, wasn't there a stretch where Batman comics suffered from one-dimensionalism in the early 40's, late-50s, mid-80s, etc?

Batman's most memorable villains emerged in the early 40's. Joker, Catwoman, Penguin, Two Face, Scarecrow etc. The late 50's didn't feature any of the classic bat villains at all. That was the era where Batman fought bizarro villains like this:

The classic villains came back into the foray in the early 60's. As for the mid 80's, again some of the best Batman villains came about then like Black Mask.

Furthermore, each villain in the Bat Universe started out as a 'theme' villain. True, is it not?

True.

Just like Bane's theme was his chemically enhanced strength.

There is no vicious backlash towards DC for the Knightfall arc, when coming to the defeat of Bane

But you just told me that thousands of fans were angry over it.

but when you read reviews and comments regarding the way Bane was protrayed and eventually used, then it becomes crystal clear that the writers only used Bane as a stepping stone. A hollow empty feeling presides. Fans who read the arc found the defeat of Bane as too simplistic and elementary for a man who possessed Batman's intellect and superhuman strength to be defeated at the hands Azrael in the fashion that he did.

Again, can you show me some of these reviews and opinions since you already said there was thousands of them? Shouldn't be hard to find.

Sure, they could have gone opposite routes but they didn't, and that's the point. I'm sure you've read more comics than me so with your intimate history with these graphic novels, you're going to sit there and tell me that wasn't biased lazy writing

Biased lazy writing? Are you now accusing the writers of being biased against Bane? The man got to discover Batman's identity and break him. For a newbie villain with absolutely no character history with Batman, I'd say he was very fortunate to make an entrance into Batman's world like that.

What was lazy about having him defeated by someone else who was better prepared for Bane? Someone more psychotic and savage than Batman?

Anyone could be justified in accusing the breaking of Batman as being lazy, as anyone with above average strength could have whupped Batman in the miserable physical state he was in when Bane confronted him. But it worked for the way it was done.

and yet the Joker surviving attacks from superhuman and/or alien characters isn't? I don't exact view that as brilliant writing, but that's my opinion.

What do you mean surviving attacks from super humans and aliens? What do you think they do to him? They just knock him with a punch once they get their hands on him. He doesn't be going toe to toe with them in a fight lol.

The Joker started out as a goofy thief, and then a decade later, was promoted as a psychotic killer.

Batman started out as a killer. Alfred started out as a amateur detective. Gordon was a boring bureaucrat. Catwoman was just a beautiful woman with no costume who called herself The Cat. Mr. Freeze was a goof ball called Mr. Zero.

So let me ask you this, if both Bane and Joker share a substanial amount of characteristics and qualities like you say, why does the element of unpredictability conquer over patience and precision?

It's very simple. The Joker has patience, precision and unpredictability. For example, The Joker sat it out for months while he recovered from the Jason Todd debacle waiting to get another shot at Batman. He even entertained himself in the mean time by manipulating Two Face into going after Batman:

Precision, the Joker cannot carry out the schemes he does without being precise. That's obvious. His development of poisons, toxins, explosives, gadgets, as well as the accuracy of his plans all require precision.

Thank you for this enlightening debate but because of our undying love for our favorite characters, I fear we may never look eye to eye. In your eyes, the Joker is a gifted genius who is leagues ahead of every villain in DC. Therefore, no matter what I say or present will never leave a mark.

Good day.

Fair enough.

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[Gieferg]

"You do not kill That is strange. A creature cloaked in nightmare. A figure of terror in a city of terror. And yet you will not break the sixth commandment".

I've always wondered how the hell Bane figured out that Batman won't commit adultery (because that's the sixth commandment in roman catholicism)

 

[Lily Adler]

From personal experience I'm sure...

Oh and HI TOM!

 

[Faramir]

Catwoman is not a villain...

Exactly my point. I was replying that, if dramatic interplay is all that matters when comparing villains, she would trump the Joker, hands down. Her relationship to Batman is more nuanced, fluid and unpredictable.

Threat levels are important too.

 

[The_Raganork]

Why can't I be that cup?

 

[Dark Knight]

Ah! Vengeance of Bane Pt. I; good origin story. From what I've seen in TDKR filming and trailer this book will play a very heavy role in this movie.

I hope so!

 

[Dark Knight]

Haha, Hardy kidding with fanboys is hilariously awesome.

Not kidding, but literally f'ing with fanboys heads! haha! Love it!

 

[Dark Knight]

Ra's beat Bane, that's kool.

Good stuff!

 

[floreairfoot]

Why can't I be that cup?

I know, right?

 

[The_Raganork]

We need news!

 

[Boom]

Is it sad to hope that he was actually hinting at something there, and not just making a joke?

Not that I'll complain if he isn't, mind you.

 

[Doctor Who]

SO ANYWAY.

Tom makes a mention about TDKR and the fanboys here: http://bcove.me/cjmavzas

Bane should only drink teeny tiny cups of tea in this movie

 

[Boom]

I very much appreciate Tom Hardy .