The Dark Knight Rises Tom Hardy as Bane XVI

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]364481[/split]

 

[souvlaki]

I think when handled correctly, Bane is a pretty good villain. However, I think he's hard to write for. Knightfall defines him - and it looks like we'll get a good chunk of that in TDKR. Bane is something of a cheat. Because he's a villain. Using venom to artificially increase his body size, etc. He wins in walk overs, where there can be no other result. It's a formality. An election with one candidate. Obviously, it's a landslide.

With both sides fully fit, that would be the true result. No doubt about it. That cannot be disputed. But Bane doesn't want it fair. He wants to make absolutely sure you go down, and wants to rule with an iron fist. Without that angle, (and you can't have it all the time) I do think he can become generic hired muscle.

This brings up an interesting point. Is Bane a cheat because he's smart enough to manipulate a situation that puts his opponent at a disadvantage? If that is the case then surely the same could be said about Batman himself, who often times uses whatever is at his disposal to take down his opponent even if it means cheating and manipulating a situation to work to his advantage. It's where the whole idea of Batman can beat anyone with enough prep time comes from. When you say Bane doesn't want it to be fair, he wants to make absolutely sure you go down I feel like that same sentence could be applied to Batman as well and I think at least for myself that is why I love Bane as a villain. Bane is in many ways a mirror image of Batman, and one of the few villains Batman has that is not only a physical threat but an intellectual equal. It's a shame most writers don't know what to do with Bane because he really has a ton of potential.

 

[craigdbfan]

Thats true.

Not sure if he's done it in the Nolan films but Batman does partake in crotch shots when it comes to kicks and punches.

Surely that isn't the most honorable thing to do in a fight but he does it because it equates to a steadfast victory against multiple foes.

 

[The Joker]

Except Bane thinks he's more than Batman's equal. He thinks he's his better. If he really believed that then he'd have had the balls to take Batman on one on one while Batman was in his prime, and without the help of venom to chemically enhance his strength instead of just using his natural strength.

Like I said before, the fight with Jean Paul Valley showed how hollow a victory Bane's triumph was. As soon as Valley cut those venom tubes in the fight, Bane was running away like a scared rabbit.

 

[The Morningstar]

Is Bane using venom and tiring Batman by springing the inmates that much different than Batman's "prep time"? In war you aim to get the advantage anyway you can.

Besides, we're talking about a story that's nearly 20 years old. Bane has been written much differently, and better, than he was in Knightfall.

 

[The Joker]

Is Bane using venom and tiring Batman by springing the inmates that much different than Batman's "prep time"?

Yeah, it is. Batman isn't claiming he's the physical and mental superior of all these guys. Batman can admit when a villain is as smart or smarter than him or as strong as him or stronger. I've even seen Batman admit The Penguin is as smart as him, it's just Penguin's obsessions that hold him back.

Bane set out to prove he's better than Batman and he did that by letting other villains wear him out and then kick him when he's down.

Bane's claim to fame was based on this one hit wonder. A trick he can never use again. A trick that was proven to be a hollow victory when psycho altar boy, Jean Paul Valley, slapped Bane down with ease.

Besides, we're talking about a story that's nearly 20 years old. Bane has been written much differently, and better, than he was in Knightfall.

The age of the story has no relevance. Some of the best Batman stories are decades old.

Knightfall is Bane's one hit wonder. His claim to fame. The "event" that made him a name. Like Hush, who became a notable Batman villain in a big event debut story. As someone else pointed out, the other notable Batman rogues didn't need an event in their debut to become a worthy Batman villain. They endured for decades because they're great villains.

I'm not saying Bane isn't a good villain. His notoriety is just severely over blown.

 

[batbax]

What about batman spying on a whole city? Wouldn't that be considered "cheating" as well? To me, both bane and batman will go to pretty great lengths to ensure their objectives are achieved. Not sure if I'd use the word cheating in either case.

 

[The Joker]

Batman is a detective and a crime fighter. Watching his city for criminal activity is not cheating.

 

[batbax]

He used a rather illegal immoral method(of which luciohs was totally against) to find the joker. I personally have no problem with it, but if we are gonna say bane "cheats" then technically batman does as well.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Except Bane thinks he's more than Batman's equal. He thinks he's his better. If he really believed that then he'd have had the balls to take Batman on one on one while Batman was in his prime, and without the help of venom to chemically enhance his strength instead of just using his natural strength.

Like I said before, the fight with Jean Paul Valley showed how hollow a victory Bane's triumph was. As soon as Valley cut those venom tubes in the fight, Bane was running away like a scared rabbit.

Please stop with your cryptic talk of hallow victory. I harbor no ill-will towards you but that's a load of ****. Everyone else can see that the writers have misused and poorly utilized Bane, why can't you? Are you that much of a fanboy? I've shown my respect for The Joker's own questionable methods and accomplishments, but you, continue to sound like a whiny jealous Chael Sonnen fanatic (being fully aware of his steriod-usage and federal crimes past).

"He cheated! He got lucky! That doesn't count!"

Bane accomplished the mission with no room for error. How does his tactics differ from Sun Tzu's The Art of War (which a modern military still employs till this day) or Batman's or The Joker's?

 

[The Joker]

He used a rather illegal immoral method(of which luciohs was totally against) to find the joker. I personally have no problem with it, but if we are gonna say bane "cheats" then technically batman does as well.

99% of Batman's methods are illegal. His very existence is illegal. Masked vigilantes who take the law into their own hands by stealing evidence from crime scenes, causing property destruction, breaking and entering, assaulting criminals etc is all illegal.

Batman uses methods of detection to find his enemies. He's a detective.

 

[batbax]

Lol ok. Well now we are just splitting hairs. Banes a villain. Every villian technically "cheats". Joker does it all the way through tdk. I don't get why it's not ok for bane to strategically take apart batman in other ways than just physically. Batman has all these fancy gadgets etc to help him, why can't bane use mind games and tactical warfare to take him down? Why does this lessen him? not sure how to qualify ehat bane does as cheating or not in comparison to what batman does to achieve what he wants. I'm sure in tdkr batman will have to rely upon much more than just a straight up one on one fight with bane to take him down. And I'm sure a lit of those methods will seem quite unfair, but necessary.

 

[The Joker]

Please stop with your cryptic talk of hallow victory.

Cryptic? I'm being anything but. I'm flat out telling you how and why it was a hollow victory.

I harbor no ill-will towards you but that's a load of ****. Everyone else can see that the writers have misused and poorly utilized Bane, why can't you?

So if you think the writers mistreated him and poorly utilized him then why is it a load of ****? You should be agreeing with me on this.

Are you that much of a fanboy? I've shown my respect for The Joker's own questionable methods and accomplishments, but you, continue to sound like a whiny jealous Chael Sonnen fanatic (being fully aware of his steriod-usage and federal crimes past).

I couldn't care less what you think of the Joker or any other Batman villain. This is not a mutual admiration society. I don't have to have acknowledge or respect Bane or any other villain if I don't agree with it just because you do.

You get very upset and personal every time someone disses Bane. I'm stunned you haven't been slapped with a stint on probation yet.

"He cheated! He got lucky! That doesn't count!"

See what I mean?

Bane accomplished the mission with no room for error. How does his tactics differ from Sun Tzu's The Art of War (which a modern military still employs till this day) or Batman's or The Joker's?

Bane accomplished his mission through cheating tactics when he was spouting all along that he's superior to Batman. If he was Batman's superior, he'd have faced him on even ground.

If Bane went into his goal with the mentality that he was just going to take Batman down, then I'd respect him more. The saving grace for Knightfall was the writers showing that Bane had been all talk, and used the venom as a crutch by having Jean Paul Valley beat him down so badly that he begged him to kill him.

 

[Gianakin_]

that he begged him to kill him.

"Begged... like a dawg."

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Anyone remembers Batman's encounters with Darkseid and Superman?

Batman never relies on his physical abilities to win, he uses his wit. Does that make a cheater when he exposes Kal-El to Kryptonite or blackmails Darkseid? Yes and no.

 

[Gianakin_]

Anyone remembers Batman's encounters with Darkseid and Superman?

Batman never relies on his physical abilities to win, he uses his wit. Does that make a cheater when he exposes Kal-El to Kryptonite or blackmails Darkseid? Yes and no.

The only thing the Joker is saying is that he'd be fine if Bane wasn't going around saying he's better than Batman. Batman is also cheating, but he's not bragging about anything.

 

[The Joker]

Lol ok. Well now we are just splitting hairs. Banes a villain. Every villian technically "cheats". Joker does it all the way through tdk. I don't get why it's not ok for bane to strategically take apart batman in other ways than just physically. Batman has all these fancy gadgets etc to help him, why can't bane use mind games and tactical warfare to take him down? Why does this lessen him? not sure how to qualify ehat bane does as cheating or not in comparison to what batman does to achieve what he wants. I'm sure in tdkr batman will have to rely upon much more than just a straight up one on one fight with bane to take him down. And I'm sure a lit of those methods will seem quite unfair, but necessary.

Read the whole conversation here, mate. Batman doesn't claim to be superior to every opponent he faces. Batman is a man of logic. He recognizes when a villain is stronger or smarter than him and he creates a strategy to beat them.

Have you ever seen Batman say he could take down the likes of Clayface, Killer Croc, or Mr. Freeze with just his own strength? No. Conversely Batman also acknowledges the intelligence of his enemies. He's even admitted some of them being just as smart as he is if not smarter. It's just their psychotic obsessions that is their limitation. I have scans of panels like this if anyone doubts it.

Bane's victory over Batman in Knightfall was a victory. He beat Batman. But Bane claimed he was Batman's superior. Not his equal, his superior. But the strategy he used to do that, letting Batman be worn down by other villains and then attack him when he's physically wrecked, is not the method of a man who believes he is someone's better.

He then even claimed he could break Jean Paul Valley even easier than he beat Bruce Wayne. Look how that turned out. Like I said that was the saving grace of Knightfall.

"Begged... like a dawg."

 

[batbax]

True. The point is that if anything bane was simply leveling the playing field a bit. It was him against a multiple billionaire with access to all sorts of equipment, in cahoots with the head of the police, etc. It isn't just a matter of Mano eh Mano, it's really bane vs batman/ Gotham pd, and his billions of dollars worth of toys. So bane was just supposed to call out
batman in the middle of the city and say "let's fight"? Lol. Please.
By using the very tactics batman uses against his enemies, bane leveled things out a bit and if anything made it a fairer fight.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Cryptic? I'm being anything but. I'm flat out telling you how and why it was a hollow victory.

Weak attempts, at best really.

So if you think the writers mistreated him and poorly utilized him then why is it a load of ****? You should be agreeing with me on this.

I do to a certain degree, but the schematics have been presented before your eyes. I didn't create Bane. His potential is on par with the Joker's depending on how the writers use the character.

I couldn't care less what you think of the Joker or any other Batman villain. This is not a mutual admiration society. I don't have to have acknowledge or respect Bane or any other villain if I don't agree with it just because you do.

No, you don't have to, but it makes you sound like a spiteful individual when you criticize another villain's tactics.

You get very upset and personal every time someone disses Bane. I'm stunned you haven't been slapped with a stint on probation yet.

Personal? No. Upset? Yes.

Why? Because fans such as yourself desperately seek a loophole arriving to Bane's strategies and achievements when the top favorite villain [The Joker] employs an uncanny approach.

See what I mean?

Is it not true? You and a few others whine about Bane's feat. You and various other members have labelled it as cheating or lucky.

Bane accomplished his mission through cheating tactics when he was spouting all along that he's superior to Batman. If he was Batman's superior, he'd have faced him on even ground.

If Bane went into his goal with the mentality that he was just going to take Batman down, then I'd respect him more. The saving grace for was the writers showing that Bane had been all talk, and used the venom as a crutch by having Jean Paul Valley beat him down so badly that he begged him to kill him.

That makes no sense... at all.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

The only thing the Joker is saying is that he'd be fine if Bane wasn't going around saying he's better than Batman. Batman is also cheating, but he's not bragging about anything.

Granted, but Bane is a delusional prisoner. A common symptom among sociopathic men & women.

And considering that Bane is Batman's mirror image, yes, Bane proved to be the better 'cheater' on that night.

 

[Gianakin_]

Granted, but Bane is a delusional prisoner. A common symptom among sociopathic men & women.

And considering that Bane is Batman's mirror image, yes, Bane proved to be the better 'cheater' on that night.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just explaining what the Joker meant. Al''s fair in love and war, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

One thing we can all agree on:

Doctor Hurt was better and is better than Bane. At least, when Bane was a villain.

 

[batbax]

We can? Lol.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just explaining what the Joker meant. Al''s fair in love and war, as far as I'm concerned.

It's something I never understood on Joker's behalf.

He makes a point on 'cheating' and it relates to Batman and various other villains, but he dismisses it or defends when it's The Joker or Batman utilizing the same tactics simply because Bane uttered that he is the better man.

These characters have a psyche that the average soul does not possess. They'll do what is necessary to win.

In Bane's own twisted world, he proved he was the better man. He wouldn't have seemed satisfied if that wasn't the case.