Superman Returns Was Superman Really Out of Character in SR?

[scuba6580]

However, you present an interesting idea. I never really thought of it that way. See below...

And what is the ramifications from this? Becasue Jor-El says it's wrong, it's wrong? I always took it as at that point he chose humanity, using his powers to save someone he loved, as opposed to falling in line with Jor-El's controls on him. Hence he 'hears' both his fathers in his head "you are forbidden to interfere with human history" and "you have these powers for a reason."

It's not simply so he can sleep with Lois, he is choosing a regular human life w/o powers instead of being Superman. And while he has to eventually go back to being Superman, he had no idea that Zod and co. would show up. At that point he realized that the world needs a Superman for those jobs that are only doable by Superman.

FOr me, SUperman RETurns is different from the above becasue common sense tells you that this is a bad idea to leave w/o saying goodbeye. WIthin the conext of the other films, theres nothing to make Superman believe that anything so bad will occur for his choice to save Lois or become human. It is interesting to consider this especially when you use the Donner cut of II and imagine just a regualr saving of Lois at the end of S:TM and view both as a single story which was how they were originally conceived.

It makes sense then that as his first adventure he would go through all these emotions and conflict to finally arrive at the realization that the world needs him and he can't put one human above the rest.

Superman I: The ramifications are, yeah, he saves Lois' life, but what Jor-El was so concerned about was that his son would be setting a bad precedent. How many times is too much for spinning the world back to alter history? Should Superman do it for eveyone who dies tragically and "unfairly," or just for who's important to him?

Superman II: The Superman films take place in a reality where Superman is already a busy guy. He knows that by doing what he's doing with giving up his powers that he will be missed. Yes, Superman has a right to want a human aspect to his life (being with Lois), but in doing so he unwittingly allows the 3 Phantom Zone Criminals to run amok throughout the country, killing who-knows-how-many people in the progress before he can arrive to stop them. Again, mom and pop were right.

Superman Returns: He bails without saying good-bye because, well...outta sight, outta mind, apparently.


Correct or not, these are the three axes that the 3 movies spin on, and they all revolve around Superman's inability to think beyond immediate results, and what the ramifications of him using his power unwisely are. I'd say that's a pretty responsible theme for a bunch of movies about a guy who can do anything.

 

[LexCorp]

Superman I: The ramifications are, yeah, he saves Lois' life, but what Jor-El was so concerned about was that his son would be setting a bad precedent. How many times is too much for spinning the world back to alter history? Should Superman do it for eveyone who dies tragically and "unfairly," or just for who's important to him?

Superman II: The Superman films take place in a reality where Superman is already a busy guy. He knows that by doing what he's doing with giving up his powers that he will be missed. Yes, Superman has a right to want a human aspect to his life (being with Lois), but in doing so he unwittingly allows the 3 Phantom Zone Criminals to run amok throughout the country, killing who-knows-how-many people in the progress before he can arrive to stop them. Again, mom and pop were right.

Superman Returns: He bails without saying good-bye because, well...outta sight, outta mind, apparently.


Correct or not, these are the three axes that the 3 movies spin on, and they all revolve around Superman's inability to think beyond immediate results, and what the ramifications of him using his power unwisely are. I'd say that's a pretty responsible theme for a bunch of movies about a guy who can do anything.

Cares more about the important people in his life, as he is still human minded.

 

[Nathan]

Never really understood why he had to be human anway to be with Lois.

 

[LexCorp]

Never really understood why he had to be human anway to be with Lois.

I guess he thought if he had the powers he would have to help all the time, so it was about giving up the resposibilites which meant being human.

 

[Nathan]

Stupid. How many minutes does it take him to stop a Bank Robbery? It would've been better if they would've shown them trying to work it out. And not him instantly giving up his powers after he spend a night with her.

 

[LexCorp]

Stupid. How many minutes does it take him to stop a Bank Robbery? It would've been better if they would've shown them trying to work it out. And not him instantly giving up his powers after he spend a night with her.

It takes him seconds...but anyone who has seen New Adventures of Lois&Clark should know that he stops one bank robbery, there is a fire to put out, a cat in a tree to save, then a train crash....and so on. Never gets a moments rest as Superman.

 

[Nathan]

But eventually they worked it out. They are married, he's still Superman, and she didn't leave him because he rescued one cat too many.

 

[LexCorp]

Yes but it had more than its fair share of trouble, Lois died at least once due to her marriage with Superman. If he was human no one would care and their life would be more happy.

 

[Nathan]

And he'll be unable to stop the next maniac that tries to launch a missile. It's selflish. You don't see every cop quitting their job once they get married.

 

[LexCorp]

And he'll be unable to stop the next maniac that tries to launch a missile. It's selflish. You don't see every cop quitting their job once they get married.

Cop/Superman total unfair comaprison. If the humans can't take care of themselves the they deserve it. Why should we blame Superman wanting a day off if the human with a rocket is the mad idiot in the first place.

 

[Nathan]

Because he promised to help and protect the humans. You just don't sit on your ass when you have the power to save millions of people by flicking a rocket into space with your bare hands.

 

[LexCorp]

Because he promised to help and protect the humans. You just don't sit on your ass when you have the power to save millions of people by flicking a rocket into space with your bare hands.

Even so to never stop helping is a huge task to take on. Also again I must stress the point even with his powers he has a krypton brain which allows him to be smart, but just as emotional as any human. As he was raised that way. Sometimes he sits on his ass. He does have the power to save the world every day, but if it keeps falling in trouble you have to ask, are these humans so stupid that they can't stay safe for one second.

 

[Nathan]

Apparently not when super villains come into play. Also you can't blame humans when they try their best to stop a crazy dicator or random maniac when nowadays it only takes the push of a button to hurl the world into oblivion. And humans are just humans, they have their limits.

 

[LexCorp]

Apparently not when super villains come into play. Also you can't blame humans when they try their best to stop a crazy dicator or random maniac when nowadays it only takes the push of a button to hurl the world into oblivion. And humans are just humans, they have their limits.

Superman has his limits, it is unfair to ask so much of one man. Even with those powers.

 

[mego joe]

Yes his first adventure would be about that realization but if he does come to the conclusion that the world needs a Superman, what would compel him to leave for five years?

I have no idea, that's why it's out of character and bad storytelling for not giving the character proper motivation. Plus it's 5 years into his career in Returns when he leaves, so there is really a need to flesh out this aspect of the story to make it plausible and believable.

I can understand him leaving to see if there are survivors, etc..., but not w/o saying goodbye to Lois and I think it would have been good to say something to the President indicating his offworld mission.

 

[Nathan]

Well, no one asked him to stop every single crime that is happening around the world. Just occasionally stop a missile or kick a super villains ass. It's not like every day some crazy guy pushes a button. And come on, he manages in the comics, he managed in a TV show. But in the Movies were he barely has super powered villains to fight he can't?

 

[LexCorp]

Well, no one asked him to stop every single crime that is happening around the world. Just occasionally stop a missile or kick a super villains ass. It's not like every day some crazy guy pushes a button. And come on, he manages in the comics, he managed in a TV show. But in the Movies were he barely has super powered villains to fight he can't?

He got in over his head, and he has given up his powers in comics and TV. The dude just wanted an out.

 

[scuba6580]

Never really understood why he had to be human anway to be with Lois.

So he doesn't split her like a piece of lumber when they do it.

 

[mego joe]

Even so to never stop helping is a huge task to take on. Also again I must stress the point even with his powers he has a krypton brain which allows him to be smart, but just as emotional as any human. As he was raised that way. Sometimes he sits on his ass. He does have the power to save the world every day, but if it keeps falling in trouble you have to ask, are these humans so stupid that they can't stay safe for one second.

There's a great story called "Must There Be A Superman" and it deals with SUperman's role in the world and how complacent 'humans' could get if Superman solved every problem for them. It's an interesting idea and goes along with what we're talking about here.

Personally, I like that he's married in the comics and I think that Jor-El's mandate about being having to be human was silly, always have. However, at that time in the comics, SUperman was not committed to Lois b/c he had chosen to commit his life to the world as Superman, he CHOSE to do this rather than be led that way by Jor-El. Essentially the first 2 Superman films are getting him to that decision, but through a different reason than the comics. The movies gave Jor-El a much more important role in Superman's reason for being than the comics ever have. It is the major difference between the two when it comes down to the origin.

Also, it's a tough lesson to learn, but Superman can't save everyone all the time. He does his best, though he has many god-like powers, he's not God, nor a god. He does his best but he still needs that down time in order to keep himself from going crazy. He can't be expected to stop every bank robbery or every mugging, either. He is usually more focussed on the bigger threats, otherwise he'd never have time to have a successful career as a newspaper reporter.

 

[Nathan]

So he doesn't split her like a piece of lumber when they do it.

Lamp with red sun bulb on the nightstand. Problem solved.

 

[mego joe]

So he doesn't split her like a piece of lumber when they do it.

Hasn't been a problem these last ten years in the comics since they got married. Plus, it was not about just having sex, it was that he was committing himself to her ahead of his 'mission.' The only way to put her above the mission is to be powerless so he can't even consider being Superman.

 

[mego joe]

Well, no one asked him to stop every single crime that is happening around the world. Just occasionally stop a missile or kick a super villains ass. It's not like every day some crazy guy pushes a button. And come on, he manages in the comics, he managed in a TV show. But in the Movies were he barely has super powered villains to fight he can't?

The movies were trying to mimic the comics of the time:

Comics:

SUperman, despite his powers cannot change destiny.

He has chosen to commit himself to his mission as Superman and not be in a personal committed relationship so he can focus on being Superman 99% of the time, w/o any other personal commitments.

Movies:

Forbidden to change the course of human history.

Jor-El's mandate about being completely human if he wants to have a committed personal relationship with a woman.

They both end up in the same place at the end, but they go through differnt routes to get there.

 

[mego joe]

Lamp with red sun bulb on the nightstand. Problem solved.

That's funny.

 

[LexCorp]

Or a kryptonite condom

 

[mego joe]

Or a kryptonite condom

I think that would do more than just stop the sperm.