BvS What Went Wrong w/ Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (SPOILERS) - Part 1

[gugumugats]

I think that Snyder just thought of "cool moments" without thinking through how to make them work logically first.

He couldn't figure out a plausible way for Batman to suddenly be cool with Superman, so lets do some half-a**ed thing about their mothers having the same first name. Which BTW, that COULD be an interesting little coincidence to play around with, and you COULD maybe do something interesting thematically with it, but Snyder does neither of those things.

Snyder wants Superman to die, and puts no greater thought into the logistics than that. How does Lois know about the spear's true importance (she wasn't there to hear about that)? Why couldn't WW use the spear (she's an Amazon warrior and presumably knows how to use spears, and she'd not affected by Kryptonite)? Or why didn't Superman throw the spear, or other basic logic questions?

Oh that's right. because Snyder wanted to cram DOS into the last part of this already jumbled mess, and didn't think any further than that.

If Batman wasn't casually killing people left and right, I would've accepted that he just hesitated at killing Batman because he couldn't go through with straight-up murder (this was my original expectation during the fight and was how I came to like the Martha moment).

I also questioned how come neither Batman nor Wonder Woman wielded the spear. Upon second viewing, it seemed like the Bats/WW were occupied with holding off Doomsday, that Superman just went straight to the point and decided to stab Doomsday himself. Then again, I also realized, wait, why not just throw it if he's strong enough to fly it through the guy.

I will say that a little more dialogue/communication during the end fight scene would've done a lot to improve it.

 

[GreenKToo]

A rock and a hard place is where WB is at right now.

 

[WBwins]

The real reason why they didn't fire Snyder after Bvs?It was simply too late.Jl preproduction had already begun.They are forced to stay the course whilst secretly micromanaging Snyder.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I will say that a little more dialogue/communication during the end fight scene would've done a lot to improve it.

That's a little too kiddy don't you think? The characters not talking and keeping to themselves is edgier.

 

[Dark Raven]

I think the first half of the movie simply didn't have enough appearances by Superman or Batman. They didn't seem to be doing much of anything. We never saw a clear shot of Batman in costume, and neither he nor Superman had any decent action scenes or set pieces.

In fact, there was only really one major set piece, and it was at the end. I would've liked a Batman set piece and a Superman set piece in the first half.

And the other major thing that went wrong is that someone decided to make a thread about Superman's resurrection and write that in the title. That is such a huge spoiler. And of course, if it has the word "resurrection" in it, it obviously means he dies. These threads come up when you click on new threads, even if you don't venture into the BvS forum at all, so that ruined the ending for me already knowing that. Does that thread even still exist?

 

[Lily Adler]

They can talk, so long as there's no magic communicators in their ears.

 

[MadVillainy]

I think the first half of the movie simply didn't have enough appearances by Superman or Batman. They didn't seem to be doing much of anything. We never saw a clear shot of Batman in costume, and neither he nor Superman had any decent action scenes or set pieces.

In fact, there was only really one major set piece, and it was at the end. I would've liked a Batman set piece and a Superman set piece in the first half.

And the other major thing that went wrong is that someone decided to make a thread about Superman's resurrection and write that in the title. That is such a huge spoiler. And of course, if it has the word "resurrection" in it, it obviously means he dies. These threads come up when you click on new threads, even if you don't venture into the BvS forum at all, so that ruined the ending for me already knowing that. Does that thread even still exist?

I would argue that the Superman-Batman fight and the Batman warehouse scene are major set pieces. The problem, like MoS, is that they just roll into each other with no break. Instead of having set pieces for each act they just throw most of them at the end.

 

[Dark Raven]

I would argue that the Superman-Batman fight and the Batman warehouse scene are major set pieces. The problem, like MoS, is that they just roll into each other with no break. Instead of having set pieces for each act they just throw most of them at the end.

I took them as two, but they're all in the last part of the film. I think they should've showcased both Batman and Superman separately in the first half with each having an action scene. I didn't like just a montage (if even that) of Superman rescuing people. It was more like just slow mo pics of him arriving. If they were even going to have a montage, at least do it like Superman the Movie where he's going from one disaster to another at the end of the film.

There was also far too much talking and philosophising about Superman and other things at the start. It was like Star Trek the Slow Motion Picture at first, with too many stops and starts. I just felt the first half really dragged at times. Even MOS's first half was more interesting, although that too dragged in places.

 

[MadVillainy]

I took them as two, but they're all in the last part of the film. I think they should've showcased both Batman and Superman separately in the first half with each having an action scene. I didn't like just a montage (if even that) of Superman rescuing people. It was more like just slow mo pics of him arriving. If they were even going to have a montage, at least do it like Superman the Movie where he's going from one disaster to another at the end of the film.

There was also far too much talking and philosophising about Superman and other things at the start. It was like Star Trek the Slow Motion Picture at first, with too many stops and starts. I just felt the first half really dragged at times. Even MOS's first half was more interesting, although that too dragged in places.

I agree with your points. Really couldve gotten some cool action with something cool for Superman.

Didn't like MoS but the Smallville fight

 

[chintai80]

i too wish we got a major sequence to showcase superman.
i wish he was the star of the show. we've already had a batman trilogy from nolan.

snyder needed to do a better job to show why superman is and always will be cool.

 

[MadVillainy]

i too wish we got a major sequence to showcase superman.
i wish he was the star of the show. we've already had a batman trilogy from nolan.

snyder needed to do a better job to show why superman is and always will be cool.

This is gonna get some flack but it's clear to me from these two movies that Snyder does not care about Superman other than his powers.

I don't think we'll get a cool Superman with Snyder

 

[Dark Raven]

I think also they should've made more of a contrast between Superman and Batman. Have Superman's scenes be more light and optimistic, like all the best bits of the Donner movies. Then have Batman be dark, with scenes like all the best bits of the Burton or Nolan movies. Then when they meet it's a clash of worlds and ideologies. Instead it was like dark vs dark with the only bright spot being WW.

 

[The Joker]

A rock and a hard place is where WB is at right now.

No sympathy for them either. They made their bed, now they can lie in it.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

The easy thing to do would delay JL, get another director (and writer, just in case), and stay out of the way.

 

[Deserana]

The annoying thing is, it's even hard to argue! You can't use the excuse "he's still learning" which you could after 6 months or so. It's been two years and Snyder himself said this is his version of comic book Superman. I so so do want this to be some sort arc starting in MoS through BvS and ending in JL about the world accepting Superman and him becoming Superman but every time Snyder talks it sounds like nope! This is how he wants definitive vision.

Come on on... Is absolutely nobody at WB questioning this?

 

[MadVillainy]

WB is just not a studio making smart decisions.

And usually i liked the risks they took. I doubt any other studio would've put out Inception, TDK, Interstellar or Fury Road. I really don't think so. So I don't get why WB is tripping on their own feet when it comes to this.

 

[Deserana]

WB is just not a studio making smart decisions.

And usually i liked the risks they took. I doubt any other studio would've put out Inception, TDK, Interstellar or Fury Road. I really don't think so. So I don't get why WB is tripping on their own feet when it comes to this.

3 of those were Nolan and one I bet they didn't even believe would be good.

 

[MadVillainy]

3 of those were Nolan and one I bet they didn't even believe would be good.

But they still took the risk and released them and released them well. It's not like they dumped them somewhere

 

[Dark Raven]

It can't be too difficult to avoid the mistakes of this and MOS for JL, even if they use the existing script but get a new director.

It would already make a huge difference if

1. They don't make the first half slow and pondering
2. Don't cram all the action into the last half with one fight after another
3. Don't make the film's tone so dark or the colours so muted
4. Inject a bit more lightness and humour

That would change a lot already like that.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I'm okay with a pondering superhero movie, just as long as it has the intellegence to back it up.

 

[hurley711]

I would have set bvs 5 or 6 years after Mos. BC would have been Lex.
The Opening would have been a montage of the actions of supes, bats, and yes even Lex over the last 5/6 years.
You would see quick glimpses of other villains they had encounteted, ie, lobo, riddler, etc.

Lex would have built his company around breaking the tech on the kryptonian ship(s). But For all his accomplishments, he cant get past his jealousy of superman. Everytime he invents something, the headline is of superman saving someone. Even bats steals his headlines. Enough. He throws his whiskey glass against a window.
His jealousy soon turns to obsession. He turns his mind toward destroying both the costumed freaks, but mainly superman.
He makes several attempts to kill superman using metallo, bizarro . etc all failures, which drives him even harder.

We see superman doing some saves, AND a proper unashamed shirtrip.

Lex creates an android of sorts ( his greatest invention yet) from the tech. It can take on any shape but its unstable. He sends it out.
It mimics supes and commits some crimes, does the same as bats, even kills.

So far, Batman and superman have left each other alone, but not anymore.

It sets supes and bats on a collision course. They have their first true encounter. It doesnt end well.

The android continues to destabilize. It starts killing just for the sport of it.

Diana shows up after discovering a signal from space is sent to metropolis. Its recieved at Lexcorp.
Same scene with martha and clark. you dont owe them a thing etc etc.

Alfred tries to convince bruce he doesnt believe superman is responsible for the crimes etc etc.

Round two. Knock down drag out between supes and bats. Each trying to capture the other.
The android has gotten out of the control of Lex. It adapts.

Diana as ww breaks into lexcorp and discovers the signals origin. Darkseid she mouths as her face turns white.

The android is drawn to superman's power. Its arrival causes the fight between supes and bats to cease. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Huge fight breaks out. it looks to be a draw until ww arrives.

She holds it with her lasso while supes punches and bats throws explosive batarangs at it. After a lengthy fight she removes its head with her sword.
she warns them that darkseid is coming and lex is helping him. She says they will need help. Bats smirks and says I may have some people in mind.

Awful. Sorry.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

WB is just not a studio making smart decisions.

And usually i liked the risks they took. I doubt any other studio would've put out Inception, TDK, Interstellar or Fury Road. I really don't think so. So I don't get why WB is tripping on their own feet when it comes to this.

Those are all autonomous works. I doubt WB had any clue pertaining their creative vision. Just as they are clueless about their superhero properties. Hence they are doing what they've always done and let someone else craft that vision. Only this time it's backfired.

WB sorely, achingly needs a creative head who will take charge of these properties.

 

[MbJ]

I'm okay with a pondering superhero movie, just as long as it has the intellegence to back it up.

This is basically it. Snyder's most enjoyable movie was two hours of naked men hitting each other with swords. His best work is popcorn cinema. Every time he tries to get deep and intellectual, it blows up in his face (Watchmen, Sucker Punch, now this).

 

[matt47]

The annoying thing is, it's even hard to argue! You can't use the excuse "he's still learning" which you could after 6 months or so. It's been two years and Snyder himself said this is his version of comic book Superman. I so so do want this to be some sort arc starting in MoS through BvS and ending in JL about the world accepting Superman and him becoming Superman but every time Snyder talks it sounds like nope! This is how he wants definitive vision.

Come on on... Is absolutely nobody at WB questioning this?

That pissed me off so much. I find it hard to believe that after two years of saving people daily that he is still learning.

 

[Dark Raven]

He doesn't really know how to do cerebral because he doesn't pace it properly and intersperse it with action and enough intrigue. Also it needs some moments of lightness so that the serious moments cause more weight. If it's serious the whole time then nothing stands out as more serious than the next.