Which actors do you think should be the next James Bond?

[Isildur´s Heir]

How will a Swedish suggestion stir this conversation?

I have no problem with the actor's nationality, as long as he plays British.

Besides, Brosnan is not British, and he played Bond; which makes the actor«s nationality a little bit redundant.

I do prefer a British actor, but it's not a deal breaker.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

But you can't expect people to endorse an "elseworld" trilogy....
They will look at Bond for what it is, not because it's set in a parallel universe.

You can't bring a comic book mentality since comic books and movies are two completely different things.

A better question is, in what way does the race change improves the character, and the answer is simple...none.
Since there is no reason and no gain into making him black, better to create a all new character.

That's the thing i don't understand, why not just create a new character and be done with it.
The moment it's "because Bond is a known character and so changing him brings some weight to it", it becomes about race and not about the character.

Different doesn't have to be better. It just can't be worse. And yes I can use comics because they are the source material and you're using Ian Flemming novels to cite your arguments. You also brought up the argument of changing superheroes. A little hypocritical don't you think?

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I have no problem with the actor's nationality, as long as he plays British.

Besides, Brosnan is not British, and he played Bond; which makes the actor«s nationality a little bit redundant.

I do prefer a British actor, but it's not a deal breaker.

Ireland is in the British Isles and was a part of the UK until 1922. That's a world of difference from Sweden.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Yeah, race is just another way to change the look of a character. There are people who attach a lot more than looks to it, sure, but it's not exactly a "guaranteed failure." A black James Bond isn't "for SJWs" any more than a blond James Bond is for Blonde hair fetishists. People of all colors in enjoy white Bond. People of all colors would enjoy a Black Bond, provided, of course, that it is equally awesome. This is especially clear when talking about Idris Elba of Heimdall and Roland Deschain fame.

Honestly, and i have said this already, i find it stupid to have Elba playing Heimdall, since Heimdall is a NORSE god.
I'm a big fan of Idris Elba, but that doesn't mean i want him in everything because "it's cool".
As for Roland....i never read the books, as such, i have nothing to say about it.

> "A black James Bond isn't "for SJWs" any more than a blond James Bond is for Blonde hair fetishists."

I'm sorry, but this sentence makes little sense.
And, of course it's because SJW want it; since there is no actual reason for the race change.
But please, explain in what way would it make the character better?

And think about the alternative. If characters who were originally conceived as White cannot be successful when separated from their Whiteness, then what place do they have in a world that is not targeted towards White males as these characters originally were? It's essentially consigning them to irrelevance, which James Bond has enough trouble with already, truth be told.

The character is not a symbol he is a person...sure, ficticious, but still.
Bond as a body representation, a physical aspect; you can't change that just because....

And once again it all boils down to race...
> "world that is not targeted towards White males"

Am i the only one that is looking at the character instead of the color of his skin?
James Bond is not aimed for white males, he is aimed for people that like espionage stories, that like secret agents.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Decided to pop in here and read this:

In fact, by turning Bond black, makes it more about race than anything else, and THAT'S much more racist that whatever i can say.

Like i said before, i'm more than fine with Moneypenny being black, since she, even being a iconic character, was never a big role.

I'll see myself out. But first...

Am i the only one that is looking at the character instead of the color of his skin?
James Bond is not aimed for white males, he is aimed for people that like espionage stories, that like secret agents.

Lmao, then why are you on this crusade? Everything you've said indicates you care A LOT about him being white.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Different doesn't have to be better. It just can't be worse. And yes I can use comics because they are the source material and you're using Ian Flemming novels to cite your arguments. You also brought up the argument of changing superheroes. A little hypocritical don't you think?

You still haven't answered why just not create a new character and be done with it?!

Where did i, in what you quoted me saying, i talk about changing superheroes?

And how can you use a comic book mentality? Comic books and novels are two different things. Besides, the novels exist, the movies exist, there is no other way to look at it.
Bond is a white straight male, that's it.
If he was a gay black man, i wouldn't want to change him either.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Decided to pop in here and read this.



I'll see myself out.

?!?!?!?

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

I'll just let this here....


A couple of years ago, before the 2nd FF movie (much less the last one), i thought "if i was the one making it, i would make Reed black".
There were two main reasons for that

1 - There are 4 white people in the group (one is mainly orange, but still)
2 - You could play with the all interracial couple angle.

See, this is how you make a change, when there is something to gain from it.
Would it have done the Fantastic Four better?
No, at least not immediately, but it would make it different, play on different dynamics, play with a different angle.

To change Bond into black is basically the same as to change Johnny Storm into black...for the hell of it, to be different on a whim.
With Johnny was even worst because the sole reason was because the director wanted Michael B. Jordan, which is the lousiest excuse to change a character.

Rule #1, you only change if the character(s) or story gain from it.

In the Reed idea it would because he would date and later marry a white blonde girl.


All in all, stop with the idiotic crap of me saying that black actors should only have small roles or any other nonsense.
My idea was Denzel Washington, FYI

 

[Da-Scribe]

But your example makes it about race, so by your logic that's racist.

Get outta here lol.

 

[Roose Bolton]

This argument always comes up whenever anyone talks about recasting Bond. There's no headway going to be made, and people just end up arguing in circles.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Real-life Q is a woman, MI6 chief reveals, despite James Bond character always having been played by men http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/26/mi6-head-real-life-q-woman/ …

__________________

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

But your example makes it about race, so by your logic that's racist.

Get outta here lol.

If that's what you took, you are not that smart to begin with.
My example is about taking the character's relationship and play with it; to be about race would mean to create something to play with it, for example, to have them date while they never did in the comics.
There is a logic to Reed's change of race, there is none in Bond except "because it's cool".

Lmao, then why are you on this crusade? Everything you've said indicates you care A LOT about him being white.

Everything i said doesn't indicate none of that.
What the hell is wrong with some of the people here?
YOU are the one making it about race, not me.

I don't want Bond to be black, as much as i don't want Shaft to be white.
Reason: It makes no sense, there is no gain from it.

How is this so hard to understand?!
My "crusade" is not and never was and never will be about race, but about being true to the character.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Real-life Q is a woman, MI6 chief reveals, despite James Bond character always having been played by men http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/26/mi6-head-real-life-q-woman/ …

__________________

And that's important because?!?

But, even so, in no character, except Bond, race or gender or sexual orientation is important.
If they want to make Q a woman, go ahead.

Monneypenny is a secretary that Bond flirts with
M is Bond's boss
Q is the gadget guy

Those are what each character represents, they never had a personality or anything of the sort, they were always stereotypes.
M never had such a big role since Judi Dench.
In the last two movies, Monneypenny was more important than all the other movies combined.

Once again, you can change Q race (they already changed his age) there is no harm there.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

What i find hilarious, ironic and hypocritical is that, so far, no one defending the "black Bond" has given a single reason for it.

Everyone keep spitting crap what i'm saying, but what about why he should be black?
Until that, every post critizing me fails.....hard.

Why not change Superman's skin color?
Or Batman's?
And before someone say, and rightly so, "because people know them as white"......SO DOES BOND!! It's exactly the same thing.

 

[Fallen Angel]

It's not important. I just posted it because it's a nice little story about James Bond and MI6 that was revealed today. I ain't creating a whole thread for this news.

 

[Pittman4Two]

Gerard Butler.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

What i find hilarious, ironic and hypocritical is that, so far, no one defending the "black Bond" has given a single reason for it.

Everyone keep spitting crap what i'm saying, but what about why he should be black?
Until that, every post critizing me fails.....hard.

Why not change Superman's skin color?
Or Batman's?
And before someone say, and rightly so, "because people know them as white"......SO DOES BOND!! It's exactly the same thing.

Spoiler

*waits for "But that doesn't count" argument*

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Spoiler

*waits for "But that doesn't count" argument*

What is that?
From where is that?

Besides, that's not an argument, that's just "because they did it too".
It's basically sheep mentality.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Quitung from another thread. And that's a non-argument.

I don't get this obsession with having Bond being nothing other than white.

James Bond to me is the epitome of the alpha male, can "turn" lesbians straight through smooth talk and seduction, is a real life Batman in that he is in peak physical condition can do things just bordering within the possible, he's tough as nails, cold blooded and almost ruthlessness, and is a sarcastic and dry SOB.

He's not defined by his "whiteness", being Scottish, or coming from old money/power. Sure these are details that have become canon over the decades, but they aren't what make him who he is.

I'm not into the SJW internet **** and I'm not lobbying for a "Black Bond", but these are my thoughts on the subject.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Quitung from another thread. And that's a non-argument.

Sure, that's his views on the matter...i don't agree, but i respect.
He gave reasons for it, which is much better than almost all the discussion i have been, where people can't give one single reason for him to be "non-white".

All BlueLanternKal said is completely right, he is not defined for being white, i ever said otherwise....but he IS white, that's a fact.
And even going by "he is not defined by his whiteness" doesn't give a reason to change his race other that "because it's cool".

I don't understand when did physical aspect and attributes became irrelevant?!?
By that logic; men, women, white, black, asian, straight, lesbian, bi.......all is irrelvant, at least 90% of the time.

I don't get that.....?!?!?!?!?

 

[Eddie Dean]

wow bob wow

 

[Da-Scribe]

I don't need to give any reason for him to be non-white, because I don't care either way. It literally makes no difference to me because his whiteness has never been a defining trait to the character. Nothing is lost in changing his race. I'd support Idris Elba because he's a damn good actor. End of story.

No one is saying physical attributes are irrelevant. We're just saying that not every physical attribute is relevant all the time. You don't get it, because you're too busy trying to defend how not racist you are. You can't see the cracks and leaps in your logic.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Agreed, Scribe.

Here's the thing. I understand that, as Kahran Ramsus pointed out earlier, Bond as he was initially created represented early 20th century "old money." But I'm not sure that argument still holds water because we are living in the 21st century now and Bond and his universe have been updated (at least on film) regularly to sync up with the times. You can argue that the character of Bond itself has remained constant but I'm not even sure that that's really true either when you consider the differences in the way each actor has portrayed him and how his characterization has varied through each interpretation (sometimes he's written as more ruthless, whereas other times he seems to genuinely love what he's doing).

All that is to say that if we want to see Bond continually move with the times (rather than make every Bond film a period piece) then casting a person of color as Bond shouldn't be an issue. I'm not saying that they HAVE to do it, but if a black man auditions for Bond and blows all of his competition out of the water, then they should cast him.

We've had over a century of films coming out of Hollywood where the lead roles have predominantly been portrayed by white actors, and that's not representative of the real world. And while some progress on diversification is finally being made, two years of #OscarsSoWhite proved that we've still got a long way to go (though I'm glad to see this year broke the trend).

And please, can people stop calling everyone a "SJW" whenever they have an issue with a white actor being cast in a role (or in this case, are simply open to a non-white actor being cast in a role)? It should be bannable offense at this point. You shouldn't be labeled a "social justice warrior" simply because you don't want every movie to look like Paul Ryan's intern staff photo.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

You don't get it, because you're too busy trying to defend how not racist you are. You can't see the cracks and leaps in your logic.

And now we return full circle to stupidity.
In what way am i trying to defend i'm not racist? Or better yet, why am i racist (because if i'm trying to defend, is because i'm)?
The more i'm in this thread, the more no one is making sense.

I don't need to give any reason for him to be non-white, because I don't care either way. It literally makes no difference to me because his whiteness has never been a defining trait to the character.

No one is saying physical attributes are irrelevant.

That makes no sense...at all.
So, "No one is saying physical attributes are irrelevant." but "his whiteness has never been a defining trait to the character."; in what universe does that make sense?
You do know what physical aspect is, right?
Most people are not defined by their race, but their race is a fact, you can not change it just because...it's logic 101.

Take me, for example:

I'm white, i was born white, i was created white, i was white all my life.
Am i defined by the color of my skin?
No, i'm defined by my personality, but the fact that i'm white defines me for society and the world in general.
People look at me and see a white male, they don't see a disembodied personality floating by.
Am i proud to be white? No, since i don't care for being white, but that doesn't make it less of a fact that i'm white.
Maybe, in my next life i will be black, and i will welcome it with open arms; but in this life, i'm white.
I'm the biggest defender of the soul, that we are soul and not body; but that doesn't mean we don't have a body is this physical realm and that body doesn't have certain aspects.

I don't get what is hard to understand?!?
I'm talking gibberish?
And before you say that i'm a real person, it doesn't matter, the point is the same.

It seems that i'm the only one here that actually cares for the character.

I don't need to give any reason for him to be non-white(...)his whiteness has never been a defining trait to the character.

You don't "need" to give a reason because you have none to give.
And by the logic of "not a defining trait to the character", we go full circle to 90% of all character...so, change away, change white to black and black to white, since it seems that nothing matters anymore, everything is up for grabs.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Here's the thing. I understand that, as Kahran Ramsus pointed out earlier, Bond as he was initially created represented early 20th century "old money." But I'm not sure that argument still holds water because we are living in the 21st century now and Bond and his universe have been updated (at least on film) regularly to sync up with the times. You can argue that the character of Bond itself has remained constant but I'm not even sure that that's really true either when you consider the differences in the way each actor has portrayed him and how his characterization has varied through each interpretation (sometimes he's written as more ruthless, whereas other times he seems to genuinely love what he's doing).

All that is to say that if we want to see Bond continually move with the times (rather than make every Bond film a period piece) then casting a person of color as Bond shouldn't be an issue.

The issue is just one, he is white; it's not about casting a person of color instead of a white, it's about staying true to the character.

Do you want a white Shaft?
A white Storm?

No?!? NO ONE DOES!!
I don't want black character to become white all of a sudden.

I'm not saying that they HAVE to do it, but if a black man auditions for Bond and blows all of his competition out of the water, then they should cast him.

But no one should make black men auditions for Bond, just like they shouldn't make white auditions for Shaft.

We've had over a century of films coming out of Hollywood where the lead roles have predominantly been portrayed by white actors, and that's not representative of the real world. And while some progress on diversification is finally being made, two years of #OscarsSoWhite proved that we've still got a long way to go (though I'm glad to see this year broke the trend).

That i can get behind of.
There are too many white characters and lead roles, that's a fact.
But, why not just create a new character and be done with it?

Example:

Bond's family adopted a black kid back in the days. James Bond had a brother.
Bond is missing. Bond's brother, let's call him Jack, goes on an investigation to find him. The all movie, and maybe the sequel is all about Jack.
In the end, he gets into Mi6, gets a "00" and his called Bond as well.
In the future, create a spin-off of a character, a new series of movies.

See? This way you have a new character, with ties to JAMES Bond, is a Bond too and you don't have the change the main character.

You shouldn't be labeled a "social justice warrior" simply because you don't want every movie to look like Paul Ryan's intern staff photo.

Why does everything needs to be this or that?
It's not about wanting all white, it's about not wanting to change a main and known character just to have more "color".
SJW is about moronic activism for the hell of it.

Social Justice Warrior is used when:
> unreasonable, sanctimonious, biased, and self-aggrandizing
> for personal validation rather than out of any deep-seated conviction