The Last Jedi Why are some fans disappointed? - Part 1

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]537607[/split]

 

[batman1]

I'm mixed on the movie. I already saw it 3 times and will see it 3-4 more times. It's Star Wars!! I loved the great parts and was let down in other parts. I know a lot of fans are upset at the movie. Was it the big build up? Was it how they treated Luke? Please share.

 

[batman1]

I just saw a few of the deleted scenes on Reddit. There was a nice one between Finn and BB-8 that I kind of wish was left in the movie.

The rest were beyond terrible. One of them has a redneck-sounding Stormtrooper confront Finn about his rank when they're in disguise on the Star Destroyer. It plays out like a sitcom. Another deleted scene has Rose bite General Hux's finger, further making Hux look like comic relief. This is all in addition to the scene where Finn cuts off Phasma's hand with a blunt riot baton.

Hmmm. This movie wasn't done well at all.

 

[Brother Jack]

Hmmm. This movie wasn't done well at all.

By whose metric? Yours?

 

[Adhesive Boy]

I don't even think I could enjoy another BB-8 scene right now. I loved him in TFA but in TLJ they went full prequel mode with him. I hated what they did with R2 in the prequels and this was at least as bad.

 

[Grootster]

Hmmm. This movie wasn't done well at all.

I agree. Although it's not just a matter of being poorly done, it's the bizarre decisions that went into everything. It would be one thing if the movie was just straight-up poorly made, but it's almost like Rian Johnson (and possibly Lucasfilm overall) just went crazy throwing as much weird, goofy, dumb stuff as they could come up with. We're taking about a movie that opens with a "yo momma" joke."

It would be one thing if this were some lowbrow Illumination or Dreamworks movie that just wants to make a product for kids, but the Lucasfilm people have to have a better head on their shoulders than that. I'm fully of the opinion that The Force Awakens was a dumb movie, but it was also a calculated movie. I can understand the thought process of most of the decisions that went into making TFA, even if I don't agree with them. This feels like it was made by drunk people.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

The more I think about this movie the more I luv it. Best since Empire imo.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Hmmm. This movie wasn't done well at all.

In your opinion. many many people disagree with you. me and many others on here loved it, but the reason you dont see us posting as much is because theres only so many times we can come up with valid points and reasons behind things in the film while people like you completely ignore them. Such as the mary sue thing thats been disproven time and time again.

 

[The Shape]

What was the "yo momma" joke that opened the film?

 

[Gothamsknight]

What was the "yo momma" joke that opened the film?

a brand of humor that may or may not have landed, depending on your sense of humor

 

[Adhesive Boy]

I agree. Although it's not just a matter of being poorly done, it's the bizarre decisions that went into everything. It would be one thing if the movie was just straight-up poorly made, but it's almost like Rian Johnson (and possibly Lucasfilm overall) just went crazy throwing as much weird, goofy, dumb stuff as they could come up with. We're taking about a movie that opens with a "yo momma" joke."

It would be one thing if this were some lowbrow Illumination or Dreamworks movie that just wants to make a product for kids, but the Lucasfilm people have to have a better head on their shoulders than that. I'm fully of the opinion that The Force Awakens was a dumb movie, but it was also a calculated movie. I can understand the thought process of most of the decisions that went into making TFA, even if I don't agree with them. This feels like it was made by drunk people.

I agree. TFA has its fair share of flaws, but the only really baffling thing from a writing point of view is having Kylo Ren lose twice to Rey in confrontations. TLJ just has so many weird choices and much worse execution of ideas in writing. Then again, when you have the writer say that he couldn't even write the hotshot resistance ace pilot and a lifelong stormtrooper breaking free from his chains to seem like different characters it does get a bit easier to see why.

 

[batman1]

I don't even think I could enjoy another BB-8 scene right now. I loved him in TFA but in TLJ they went full prequel mode with him. I hated what they did with R2 in the prequels and this was at least as bad.

They even made r-2 take a back seat!! Those toys would have sold. bb-8 isn't.

 

[writer0327]

This is easily the best SW movie since Empire, and given that these films tend to improve over time, it may one day eclipse Empire.

 

[Prettyricky]

After watching this again I still cant connect too it like previous star wars films. It just feels like spoof or someone wanting to make a star wars film and failing in the end. I still dont understand the way luke was and him trying to execute kylo and locking himself off from the force. Just so many wasted story lines.

 

[Mjölnir]

I finally got into Rebels in season 3 and really enjoyed it until the end. How that show handled the characters, the storylines and the climax highlighted even more how lacking TLJ was in those regards, and that's despite that Rebels is more cartoony (meaning in style, not in the sense of that it's actually animated) by nature.

The show didn't get good enough for me to call any part of it the first great thing in Star Wars since the OT, but it did help me get some hope for the franchise back.

 

[batman1]

I agree. TFA has its fair share of flaws, but the only really baffling thing from a writing point of view is having Kylo Ren lose twice to Rey in confrontations. TLJ just has so many weird choices and much worse execution of ideas in writing. Then again, when you have the writer say that he couldn't even write the hotshot resistance ace pilot and a lifelong stormtrooper breaking free from his chains to seem like different characters it does get a bit easier to see why.

Yeah everyone one else in the OT and PT suffered loss ans trauma by the second movie. Even Palpatine. It's war. STAR WARS!!! Nobody goes by unscaved. Except Rey. Even Leia got tortured in ANH and lost her home planet and lost Han in ESB. Even c-3po got blown apart.

 

[batman1]

By whose metric? Yours?

Obviously by a lot of posters.

 

[batman1]

In your opinion. many many people disagree with you. me and many others on here loved it, but the reason you dont see us posting as much is because theres only so many times we can come up with valid points and reasons behind things in the film while people like you completely ignore them. Such as the mary sue thing thats been disproven time and time again.

Well the Mary Sue thing has been proven now. It has been common knowledge that this week Disney came out and shared that Rey was powered for no specific reason. So the argument is dead and will not be brought up. Because there is no refuting it now. I myself couldn't believe they actually came out and shared this. But just to show you that all the fans who were told they were stupid and they kept stating their point were validated. I mean seriously it was obvious she is a Mary Sue. Know wonder everyone kept posting.

 

[Aximili86]

"Proven"? Bwaha.

You know the very term "Mary Sue" isn't even allowed anymore over on the Jedi Council/TheForce.Net forums (the major SW fandom base) due to being so ridiculous and unfounded, right?

She's no different than Luke was. Hell, Anakin displayed just as much innate ability as Rey. But hey, penis, right?

 

[LTuser]

I don't even think I could enjoy another BB-8 scene right now. I loved him in TFA but in TLJ they went full prequel mode with him. I hated what they did with R2 in the prequels and this was at least as bad.

On that BB8 spitting out all those coins. WHERE the hell did he keep them all? We saw in EP7 those spike things he shot out to root himself in the falcon, and iirc other gadgets inside.. SO how did he have the space, let alone ability to even shoot them out?

"Proven"? Bwaha.

You know the very term "Mary Sue" isn't even allowed anymore over on the Jedi Council/TheForce.Net forums (the major SW fandom base) due to being so ridiculous and unfounded, right?

Just cause that other site refuses to allow it to be used, does NOT make it unfounded or ridiculous.

 

[Herolee10]

"Proven"? Bwaha.

You know the very term "Mary Sue" isn't even allowed anymore over on the Jedi Council/TheForce.Net forums (the major SW fandom base) due to being so ridiculous and unfounded, right?

She's no different than Luke was. Hell, Anakin displayed just as much innate ability as Rey. But hey, penis, right?

It took Luke years before he could properly wield a lightsaber, let alone use it in combat. It only took Rey a few days.

Rey was also able to fend off against Kylo Ren's advances when it came to him probing her mind back in TFA, despite the fact that she had no real knowledge of the force and she bested him in combat (he wasn't that injured).

Anakin was born as prophetic chosen one of the force, hence his force potential, and George Lucas stated that Luke had the same potential as well.

Daisy Ridley even said on how Rey has no flaws as character; that statement alone should warrant that Rey really isn't much of a compelling character to start of with.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It took Luke years before he could properly wield a lightsaber, let alone use it in combat. It only took Rey a few days.

Rey was also able to fend off against Kylo Ren's advances when it came to him probing her mind back in TFA, despite the fact that she had no real knowledge of the force and she bested him in combat (he wasn't that injured).

Anakin was born as prophetic chosen one of the force, hence his force potential, and George Lucas stated that Luke had the same potential as well.

Daisy Ridley even said on how Rey has no flaws as character; that statement alone should warrant that Rey really isn't much of a compelling character to start of with.

Lightsabers are weapons, not something force users exclusively train with. It's a sword. Rey already knew melee combat (see skills with a staff). If you can use 1 melee weapon, you have a basic understanding of using other ones. You're comparing a farmer to someone who actually needed to use weapons to defend themselves at a young age. The comparison doesn't work.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

"Proven"? Bwaha.

You know the very term "Mary Sue" isn't even allowed anymore over on the Jedi Council/TheForce.Net forums (the major SW fandom base) due to being so ridiculous and unfounded, right?

She's no different than Luke was. Hell, Anakin displayed just as much innate ability as Rey. But hey, penis, right?

Who cares about a bunch of overly-sensitive fans that can't handle differing opinions so they have to ban certain discussions? Luke's and Rey's developments aren't even remotely similar so either it has to come from ignorance or dishonesty to say that there isn't any. Rey is better than Luke at everything.

Regarding the Force it's a huge difference. Luke gets a little training but still struggles to lift things like lightsaber hilts or a small stone after having practiced for 3 years. His best early Force feat is to press a button at the exact right time.

Rey on the other hand overpowers a highly powerful Force user the instant she realizes that she's Force sensitive, and she even instantly learns to use his Force power against him. After a couple of minutes she also learns how the Mind Trick works. After a few day she's powerful enough to beat several of Snoke's personal guard in lightsaber combat, and she can lift tons of rocks with the Force.

Given that and Rey being good at everything else she does, plus that all the old established characters seem to like her so much they even change their normal behavior to cater to her, she only lacks the self-insertion aspect of a Mary Sue but that's not a required aspect in how the term is used.

It definitely doesn't have anything to do with that she's a woman. There have been awesome, kick-ass women in movies but they have been far better written than Rey. Beatrix Kiddo in Kill Bill is one example. She kicks all sorts of ass, but she also struggles in a more believable (for the context) way. She's also far more feminine than Rey, so that completely destroys the pathetic attempt to make this about gender. Rey has no feminine aspects to her, she could easily be a man by just changing the actor. A strong female is more powerful as a concept if she actually shows more specific female traits and show that those can be awesome as well. Women don't need to be just like men to be cool.

But I'd really like to see you try to explain how there's no difference between Luke and Rey so please, go ahead.

 

[Grootster]

I don't think the Mary Sue thing can be proven or disproven, it's not even fully agreed upon what qualifies as a Mary Sue, so it's always going to be a matter or perspective. It's sort of like trying to prove that someone is a good character, it will always be kind of subjective.

As I've said before, I don't think she's a full Mary Sue. She has a lot of the typical traits, but she lacks the self-insertion aspect. I'd argue Rey is just overpowered and underdeveloped. I don't blame people for thinking she is or isn't a Mary Sue because it's definitely up for debate.

Also, I think theforce.net banning the word "Mary Sue" is ridiculous, it's one of the reasons I don't even browse that site anymore. In general they seem to have a problem with criticism, I've noticed almost any thread that's negative tends to get shut down there. There's no discussion to be had if everyone's just fanboying over everything.

 

[random_havoc]

She is absolutely a Mary Sue. And that's just the beginning of the problems with TLJ