Why Can't DC Get it right? - Part 1

[roach]

If I were to do this Batman wouldn't need a build up. I would draw inspiration from the very first Batman story where The Batman appeared and disappeared all willy nilly and you didn't find out it was Bruce until the end.....or like most of his appearances in Batman. He would already be out there doing stuff but people would think he was just a made up story.

 

[Mr.M]

If I were to do this Batman wouldn't need a build up. I would draw inspiration from the very first Batman story where The Batman appeared and disappeared all willy nilly and you didn't find out it was Bruce until the end.....or like most of his appearances in Batman. He would already be out there doing stuff but people would think he was just a made up story.

In a Superman movie though?

 

[roach]

In a Superman movie though?

yes especially in a Superman movie. The focus remains on Superman and you have Batman in it being all mysterious and shadowy as he normally is

 

[Aztec]

I think DC has a legit chance to "get it right" here and they'll get to do it in a creative fashion too. Which is good because it won't be seen as a direct rip-off of the MCU.

The plan is simple make the DC television universe shows Arrow and The Flash part of the cinematic universe with Batman and Superman. This way the shows can be used to flesh out lesser known characters and expand the universe (which now includes key characters like Deathstroke, Deadshot, Black Canary, etc) so that they can appear in the films with fans aware of who they are. Arrow seems to fit the "realistic tone" of TDK and MOS films; and it's well liked so why not use it?

Not to mention his allows DC to play "catch up" quickly to Marvel. They'll have four franchises (Batman, Superman, The Flash, and Green Arrow) already established thus less time needs to be spent on introducing these characters in the films.

As to Batman, like I've said before, he needs to enter the World's Finest film as an established character. No backstory necessary. Why? 1) everyone knows who he is, 2) it makes him more mysterious, and finally 3) it allows the fans the option of keeping the Nolan backstory if they choose (it was popular and well known, so while they don't need to be BOUND to it but they also don't need to disregard it completely).

 

[Docker2.0]

I think DC has a legit chance to "get it right" here and they'll get to do it in a creative fashion too. Which is good because it won't be seen as a direct rip-off of the MCU.

The plan is simple make the DC television universe shows Arrow and The Flash part of the cinematic universe with Batman and Superman. This way the shows can be used to flesh out lesser known characters and expand the universe (which now includes key characters like Deathstroke, Deadshot, Black Canary, etc) so that they can appear in the films with fans aware of who they are. Arrow seems to fit the "realistic tone" of TDK and MOS films; and it's well liked so why not use it?

Not to mention his allows DC to play "catch up" quickly to Marvel. They'll have four franchises (Batman, Superman, The Flash, and Green Arrow) already established thus less time needs to be spent on introducing these characters in the films.

As to Batman, like I've said before, he needs to enter the World's Finest film as an established character. No backstory necessary. Why? 1) everyone knows who he is, 2) it makes him more mysterious, and finally 3) it allows the fans the option of keeping the Nolan backstory if they choose (it was popular and well known, so while they don't need to be BOUND to it but they also don't need to disregard it completely).

That actually would be the smart thing to do. Can you imagine how many weekly viewers they will attract if they tied Arrow and the Flash movie to the Bats vs. Sups movie? I didn't watch Arrow most of the season, maybe like only the first 4 episodes because I was so pissed about the no super powers thing that I boycotted but now that the Flash is going to be there,I'm back there again. I think this would make sense but I'd be shocked if they did.

 

[smallville fan]

I think DC has a legit chance to "get it right" here and they'll get to do it in a creative fashion too. Which is good because it won't be seen as a direct rip-off of the MCU.

The plan is simple make the DC television universe shows Arrow and The Flash part of the cinematic universe with Batman and Superman. This way the shows can be used to flesh out lesser known characters and expand the universe (which now includes key characters like Deathstroke, Deadshot, Black Canary, etc) so that they can appear in the films with fans aware of who they are. Arrow seems to fit the "realistic tone" of TDK and MOS films; and it's well liked so why not use it?

Not to mention his allows DC to play "catch up" quickly to Marvel. They'll have four franchises (Batman, Superman, The Flash, and Green Arrow) already established thus less time needs to be spent on introducing these characters in the films.

As to Batman, like I've said before, he needs to enter the World's Finest film as an established character. No backstory necessary. Why? 1) everyone knows who he is, 2) it makes him more mysterious, and finally 3) it allows the fans the option of keeping the Nolan backstory if they choose (it was popular and well known, so while they don't need to be BOUND to it but they also don't need to disregard it completely).

DC should play to their strengths and use their TV shows to establish their little universe. Ever since the 1950s with Adventures of Superman and the 1960s Batman all the way to the modern age with Smallville and Arrow, DC demonstrated a good track record with their TV shows Marvel could never match. This could work in their favor a lot. All they should do is allocate a bigger budget to those shows and it's all good.

 

[metaphysician]

I doubt they will, however. Not with word of both a Flash spinoff from Arrow, and a Flash movie. Unless those are both supposed to be the same guy, you won't have the kind of thing your discussing.

 

[Aztec]

I doubt they will, however. Not with word of both a Flash spinoff from Arrow, and a Flash movie. Unless those are both supposed to be the same guy, you won't have the kind of thing your discussing.

The Flash movie was a rumor that was clearly the series announcement misconstrued.

There's no reason, aside from pigheadedness/incompetence on the part of WB, that the DC television shows and films can't be united into one cohesive universe. Heck, Marvel's pulling it off starting in September. But DC has the opportunity to do it on a much larger scale with Arrow and Flash and their enemies (alrwsdy including big names like Deathstroke, Deadshot, and from the looks of it Ras al Gul). These are much bigger characters than random SHIELD agents.

 

[Mr.M]

I agree, but I don't think the two mediums can overlap in that sense. You need some big actors to play these roles in movies, so all the major characters wil have to be recasted in JL. You cannot expect TV actors to make that leap, and then return to TV. Once you are relegated to TV, you stay there.

What you can do is rely on TV to establish that mythos and backstory, and lay the groundwork, but the mediums have to be separate. Even with Agents of the SHIELD, ABC has a much larger budget than CW for one, but basically a supporting character in the MCU is the lead guy, and everyone else is no names. The difference between TV and mainstream cinema is the difference between traveling to the moon and traveling to Mars. There is just too wide a gap there to translate a TV audience into a general movie going audience.

 

[Aztec]

Everything you said is true but if DC are looking for their unique contribution (ala Marvel) this could be it. Like Marvel before them it's time to break the mold. I think it's worth a shot.

 

[Docker2.0]

The Flash movie was a rumor that was clearly the series announcement misconstrued.

There's no reason, aside from pigheadedness/incompetence on the part of WB, that the DC television shows and films can't be united into one cohesive universe. Heck, Marvel's pulling it off starting in September. But DC has the opportunity to do it on a much larger scale with Arrow and Flash and their enemies (alrwsdy including big names like Deathstroke, Deadshot, and from the looks of it Ras al Gul). These are much bigger characters than random SHIELD agents.

Highlighted the key phrase.

I agree, but I don't think the two mediums can overlap in that sense. You need some big actors to play these roles in movies, so all the major characters wil have to be recasted in JL. You cannot expect TV actors to make that leap, and then return to TV. Once you are relegated to TV, you stay there.

What you can do is rely on TV to establish that mythos and backstory, and lay the groundwork, but the mediums have to be separate. Even with Agents of the SHIELD, ABC has a much larger budget than CW for one, but basically a supporting character in the MCU is the lead guy, and everyone else is no names. The difference between TV and mainstream cinema is the difference between traveling to the moon and traveling to Mars. There is just too wide a gap there to translate a TV audience into a general movie going audience.

Well we will see. Marvel is doing it with Agents of SHIELD and you are kidding yourself if you think people are not watching it because it ties in with the MCU. If WB/DC doesn't do this, they are missing a golden opportunity. I can't believe these guys are that blind that they don't have a clue how what to do with it's characters.

 

[jmc]

I've never understood the point of the Agents of Shield TV series. I honestly don't know who's going to be watching that show or who the show is suppose to be aimed at. With no superheroes I don't know what the actual appeal of the show is meant to be. Coulson? I doubt it.

 

[smallville fan]

I've never understood the point of the Agents of Shield TV series. I honestly don't know who's going to be watching that show or who the show is suppose to be aimed at. With no superheroes I don't know what the actual appeal of the show is meant to be. Coulson? I doubt it.

The show is about the little underrated guys within the Marvel universe. It's about ordinary people living in a superhuman world. It's a great way to expand the Marvel Universe and showcase lesser known characters.

 

[Aztec]

The show is about the little underrated guys within the Marvel universe. It's about ordinary people living in a superhuman world. It's a great way to expand the Marvel Universe and showcase lesser known characters.

This.

Also, you need look no further than really popular and successful shows with similar concepts like X-Files or Buffy.

 

[jmc]

The show is about the little underrated guys within the Marvel universe. It's about ordinary people living in a superhuman world. It's a great way to expand the Marvel Universe and showcase lesser known characters.

But who's going to care? The concept itself I have no problem with, but it seems more suited to short film than an entire TV series, I wouldn't have a problem with an Agents of Shield 5-7 minute short before each Marvel movie, but a weekly TV series? Eh, I don't really see the appeal in the long run, unless it's a really compelling TV series I see the novelty wearing out rather quickly. That said espionage shows tend to do ok on TV, at least for a short period of time, so who knows, it could be the best spy show in years I guess.

 

[flickchick85]

But who's going to care? The concept itself I have no problem with, but it seems more suited to short film than an entire TV series, I wouldn't have a problem with an Agents of Shield 5-7 minute short before each Marvel movie, but a weekly TV series? Eh, I don't really see the appeal in the long run, unless it's a really compelling TV series I see the novelty wearing out rather quickly. That said espionage shows tend to do ok on TV, at least for a short period of time, so who knows, it could be the best spy show in years I guess.

A sci-fi espionage show from Joss Whedon/Jed Whedon/Maurissa Tancharoen/Jeff Bell sounds like heaven to me. Its connection to the MCU is just a bonus as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Loki882]

It's an espionage series set in the MCU with some ties to the films and starring a fan favorite character. It can also introduce characters that could appear in future films eventually (Mockingbird, Carol Danvers, Abigail Brand, Luke Cage, etc). Sounds quite interesting to me. MOS was a very good start of the DCCU, and WF is the next step. I want WW to be the next priority film, she's waited long enough. You don't need to do an origin film for Batman, everyone already knows his origins. Just have him appear and explain his background in a couple of lines of dialogue, that's all you need.

 

[Raiden]

But who's going to care? The concept itself I have no problem with, but it seems more suited to short film than an entire TV series, I wouldn't have a problem with an Agents of Shield 5-7 minute short before each Marvel movie, but a weekly TV series? Eh, I don't really see the appeal in the long run, unless it's a really compelling TV series I see the novelty wearing out rather quickly. That said espionage shows tend to do ok on TV, at least for a short period of time, so who knows, it could be the best spy show in years I guess.

It's created by Whedon; he can make it work.

 

[jmc]

It's created by Whedon; he can make it work.

Eh, lets not make out his TV series' have always turned out well or been able to attract massive audiences.

 

[regwec]

I find the "one universe" idea, with its accompanying necessity for stylistic uniformity and cross-selling of licenses, to be very unattractive. In my opinion, it leads to extremely boring and samey films. I wouldn't say DC/WB is doing anything wrong in exploiting properties at a relatively even pace.

I would rather have different film series under the control of different directors and production units, each with its own signature style. I'm interested to see how Superman/Batman ends up, but I hope against further crossovers in future.

 

[Mr.M]

Buffy was pretty much the only prolonged hit he had. Angel was decent for a few years but that was a spinoff of Buffy anyway. Whedon's shows are loved by fans, but it doesn't represent anywhere near the demographic you need for an ABC series in prime time.

 

[roach]

I do wonder about AOS too...I think it will be big and people will tune in thinking they'll see IM, Cap or Thor....the question I have is how long could this series go on before the audience realizes that the Avengers aren't going to show up and stops watching?

 

[Loki882]

Angel was a big hit for five seasons, to the point that many were really surprised when it was cancelled. As for the shared universe thing, the long-held obsession with "keeping things separate" had gotten stale and boring. I LOVE that we have characters who are so different interacting with each other. It leads to different story possibilities and fun character interactions. Also, I take issue with the argument that the Marvel films were all the same, because they weren't.

 

[roach]

I will never understand how it's a great thing for Marvel to have a unified universe but it's a bad thing for WB and DC to do it.

 

[regwec]

I don't think it's a particularly great thing when Marvel does it, in anything other than a commercial sense, but I don't care about their characters anyway.