Why Can't DC Get it right? - Part 1

[Peyton Westlake]

X-Men movies have never grossed over $800M. That's out of 9 movies. Only 2 of their movies have grossed over $700M.

Secondly, unfortunately, box office wise, the X-Men aren't in the same class as the Batman or the Avengers.

Which leads to my next point, the last 2 Batman movies grossed over $1B each. Now you have the next movie that includes not only Batman but the first on screen meeting with Superman and Wonder Woman.

Expectations were high and were not met with BvS.

You are right in the fact that the holy trinity for DC was united on screen and the fact that it didnt cross the billion mark, box office gold for WB, was the reason why there was major shake ups at the studio.

 

[Flint Marko]

I don't think anyone could call BvS a failure, at least financially, but it certainly failed to get audiences excited for the DCEU.

 

[spider-neil]

DC are getting it right and better than Marvel on TV and Animation.

That is highly debatable considering the high bar set with Daredevil and Jessica Jones.

I think the only thing DC has over Marvel at this current moment in time is animated movies and they win by default as Marvel don't make them.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I don't think anyone could call BvS a failure, at least financially, but it certainly failed to get audiences excited for the DCEU.

It is an answer we won't know until Justice League. If JL ends up dropping significantly at the box office (like X-Men Apocalypse), then we can safely say BvS failed at setting up a prosperous franchise/universe.

 

[Erzengel]

I think JL can succeed in spite of BvS.

If JL scores $1.3-$1.4B at the box office and get stellear reviews, I won't be one of those who say, see BvS succeeded.

 

[spider-neil]

It is an answer we won't know until Justice League. If JL ends up dropping significantly at the box office (like X-Men Apocalypse), then we can safely say BvS failed at setting up a prosperous franchise/universe.

When the reviews starting rolling in for BvS they should have sacked Snyder there and then. You have an award winning director/writter (Affleck) on your books but you are still allowing your make or break movie (and it is make or break for the DCU) to be directed by a hack to potentially botch up another movie.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

When the reviews starting rolling in for BvS they should have sacked Snyder there and then. You have an award winning director/writter (Affleck) on your books but you are still allowing your make or break movie (and it is make or break for the DCU) to be directed by a hack to potentially botch up another movie.

They were incredibly foolish when they scheduled JL to start filming two weeks after the release of BvS, especially after the response to MoS was already mixed in the first place. It made it incredibly difficult to sack Snyder and I'm pretty certain he would be gone if it wasn't the case.

Now they have to release a JL film that neither the audience nor likely the studio will have any faith in. You can't build hype in that sort of environment.

 

[spider-neil]

They were incredibly foolish when they scheduled JL to start filming two weeks after the release of BvS, especially after the response to MoS was already mixed in the first place. It made it incredibly difficult to sack Snyder and I'm pretty certain he would be gone if it wasn't the case.

Now they have to release a JL film that neither the audience nor likely the studio will have any faith in. You can't build hype in that sort of environment.

I would have held a private meeting with Affleck's people to ask if he would be willing to take on the directing chores on short notice and if they said yes I'd then call Snyder to not bother coming to work the next day.

Two movies in a row that Snyder has directed for DC/WB that are rotten on the 'tomato meter'. Who wants to bet he makes it 3 for 3?

 

[StormC]

If JL scores $1.3-$1.4B at the box office and get stellear reviews

Let's be realistic. What are the chances of that happening?

 

[Erzengel]

Personally, slim.

 

[metaphysician]

Well then it hit the mark and then some, and thats before the movie is being released to buy.

Only if you assume the purpose of a big tentpole is to break even. Its not. Tentpoles are supposed to bring in profits in the 9 figure range, doubly so when they are supposed to start/advance a major franchise.

For such an important movie like BvS to only just break even? Huge failure. Especially when its box office revenue is the *best* thing the producers can point to, because all other measures of success are worse.

 

[kguillou]

I think BvS also needs to serve as a bigger lesson to not put so much money into these films. It's not necessary. A film shouldn't NEED to bank over $800 mill to break even. Especially a film that sells itself so easily. $871 million is a ton of money and quite frankly that should have been considered profitable and a success for WB, but putting so much into the production and marketing budget made their profit margin way too high.

Grossing $1 billion should be a bonus not the standard in order to generate a profit.

 

[Erzengel]

Where do you scale back?

With an inevitable fight with Darkseid, where do you cut and try and budget?

Same thing with Star Wars or the Avengers. You can't do those movies on a Deadpool budget.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

For a near sure success like this (or The Avengers or Star Wars or Transformers or mega-franchises of that ilk), I have no problem with a high budget. Barring a complete crapfest, they are big enough that big profits are practically guaranteed. Heck, BvS WAS a complete crapfest and still made a profit.

It is spending the big bucks on questionable properties that is the problem. Too often studios spend a fortune on films they shouldn't. Want to spend $200 million on Spider-Man? Go right ahead. Want to spend $200 million on Gambit? Might want to think about that one.

 

[kguillou]

Where do you scale back?

With an inevitable fight with Darkseid, where do you cut and try and budget?

Same thing with Star Wars or the Avengers. You can't do those movies on a Deadpool budget.

That's the question, where is the majority of the budget being spent? Is it on CGI effects? The actor's salaries? Filming permits? Did Star Wars or any of the Avengers movies have such a big spending budget?

 

[StormC]

Both Avengers films, Civil War, and TFA all had budgets within 225-250 million.

 

[Jekecy]

Both Avengers films, Civil War, and TFA all had budgets within 225-250 million.

Transformers has been accomplishing most in the sub-200 range and looks twice as more expensive than all of them. It's really just a matter of how efficient you are with money. Bay is one of the best.

 

[Quasimod0]

Transformers has been accomplishing most in the sub-200 range and looks twice as more expensive than all of them. It's really just a matter of how efficient you are with money. Bay is one of the best.

The Transformers movies definitely don't look cheap. I see a lot of complaints about the CGI but it looks pretty darn good to me most of the time.

 

[Flint Marko]

It is an answer we won't know until Justice League. If JL ends up dropping significantly at the box office (like X-Men Apocalypse), then we can safely say BvS failed at setting up a prosperous franchise/universe.

Keep in mind we have two more DCEU films until JL comes out. I think those two could win back enough of the audience to get them invested in JL.
However, the numbers speak for themselves and BvS' stark box office drop and underwhelming worldwide haul (combined with the negative critical reception and WOM) have demonstrated that it did not excite audiences for their upcoming ten film slate. If anything, it did the opposite. All hope isn't lost, but it isn't looking good.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Keep in mind we have two more DCEU films until JL comes out. I think those two could win back enough of the audience to get them invested in JL.
However, the numbers speak for themselves and BvS' stark box office drop and underwhelming worldwide haul (combined with the negative critical reception and WOM) have demonstrated that it did not excite audiences for their upcoming ten film slate. If anything, it did the opposite. All hope isn't lost, but it isn't looking good.

SS and WW are side movies with different directors. I can't see them helping that much. JL is the true sequel so the impact will be felt most with it.

 

[Flint Marko]

SS and WW are side movies with different directors. I can't see them helping that much. JL is the true sequel so the impact will be felt most with it.

I feel safe in saying that WW is more than a side movie. To a lot of people she was the best part of BvS, and her solo film will be the first female-led big budget superhero movie helmed by a female director... I think that's going to bring a lot of attention and if it meets expectations, that goodwill could be carried over into JL. Obviously we'll have to wait and see how this plays out, but my money is on WW building up hype for the DCEU in ways some might not expect.

 

[Jekecy]

Who saw South Park's E3 teaser trailer reveal? They clowned the entire CBM landscape, but arguably the biggest potshot was the one aimed at DC. You could even hear the crowd react.

 

[Xrated48]

Who saw South Park's E3 teaser trailer reveal? They clowned the entire CBM landscape, but arguably the biggest potshot was the one aimed at DC. You could even hear the crowd react.

I saw it too I laughed my *** off

 

[Peyton Westlake]

Only if you assume the purpose of a big tentpole is to break even. Its not. Tentpoles are supposed to bring in profits in the 9 figure range, doubly so when they are supposed to start/advance a major franchise.

For such an important movie like BvS to only just break even? Huge failure. Especially when its box office revenue is the *best* thing the producers can point to, because all other measures of success are worse.

News outlets such as Deadline and I think Variety stated that BvS needed anywhere between $800-$850M to make a profit. ---Erzengel

I was going by what Erzengel said, based off that, it made a profit.
Maybe not as much as they wanted, but it did according to Erzengel.

 

[TeeKay]

Who saw South Park's E3 teaser trailer reveal? They clowned the entire CBM landscape, but arguably the biggest potshot was the one aimed at DC. You could even hear the crowd react.

"Lets sneak the black guy in phase 3"

"Bet you don't even get halfway through phase 1 on your franchise DC comics."