Why Can't DC Get it right? - Part 2

[Limonade]

But here's the thing, it sounded like Kevin Tsujihara made the announcement of the WB slate and everybody was scrambling for it to come to fruition. Subpar scripts be damned.

That's not how planning works.

You have plans, scripts, you have somewhat of a direction where you want to go story-wise. It also has to makes sense to the audience as well. All this, before you make an aggressive line-up of movies. Yet, they were so adamant in their film schedule that they were too afraid to push anything back.

I'm hoping at least now with WB somewhat getting a grip on what audience members want they have to slow down this train before it goes off the rails.

 

[Smilodon]

Didn't Tsujihara also announce Affleck as director for Batman before things were set in stone and basically strong armed Ben into directing the film? I know some people were suspecting that when Tsujihara made his announcement and it could be true given what we know of SS now.

 

[Boom]

Didn't Tsujihara also announce Affleck as director for Batman before things were set in stone and basically strong armed Ben into directing the film?

That's what we call "panicking."

 

[The Endless]

I think it's simple... they have no bottle. No conviction with what they are doing.

Even the strongest Marvel hater has to admit... they made their own luck. Iron Man and Incredible Hulk were only made because of a loan. Feign and Co took that jump. They had an idea and just went for it. Look where they are now.

Look what's happening here with WB/DC. I think the creative guys have their heart in the right place. Even Snyder. No one wants to have the chance to play with these characters and make a bad movie.

But there is no executive side of the comic guys. Some who has the power... and faith in these characters and the whole DC universe.

 

[Flint Marko]

Someone else here put it best: "Marvel had a plan and a goal, WB just had a goal."
It amazes me how shoddily put together this universe is.

 

[Marathon]

A fish rots from the head, etc. Tsujihara is the one to blame. He could have taken a deep breath after MoS and map out a far more patient "cinematic universe". Instead, pushed the panic button and here we are.

 

[raimar]

My opinion on why DC can't get it right

1. They are trying to hard to make their movie serious. I think they all fell in love with V for Vendetta and are trying to copy it but it doesn't work to well. It's a superhero movie. Have some fun with it. I am not saying go full Deadpool(although I love would love a Lobo movie)

2. Way way way too huge of a reliance on Batman and Superman. Just too much. And this wouldn't be so bad if they didn't treat them like some untouchable religious icons. Seriously Thor is a goddamn god and he is not treated even half as pretentiously as they are treating Superman. If you are going to endlessly give us the same characters at least let's shake things up a bit.. And no having them murder people doesn't really count. That was just lame

3. Making their movies goddamn dark. As in visually. I am still so pissed at the Doomsday fight. It was a mess. I could barely see anything. Like what the **** were they thinking?

4. Not enough movie with not enough characters. The DC universe is full of characters and many of them don't require a big budget. We can have a whole flood of them. Yes of course I want a Wonder Woman movie(although I would prefer if she got recast) and I would love a Supergirl movie . Especially one set outside Earth but there are also so many other characters we can have.

The Green Arrow already gained fame with the TV series. We can have a movie based on him without a problem. We can have a fascinating movie based around the Question which would also be a great way to dig into how society reacts to Superheroes and so on and so on. So much potential so little will.

Sarah:
1-By shake up i hope you dont mean Superwoman, Wonderman and TheBat-Gender unknown! Shake ups are very necesary and welcome, but not a la Marvel anymore, it would be repetitive and ridiculous. And it would certainly not guarantee better results.
2-Completely agree, way to untouchable. Especially Superman. It is something that was brought to my attention by my kids after the first Superman movie, (Snyder), they don't need anyone else!
3-Doomsday fight was horrible, it broke whatever had been done well in the movie. The dark tone is kind of obligatory, do you believe Batman could be done any other way? Can he be mixed with funny guys,situations and can this be made to work believably? i honestly don't think so. And im not so sure we would even wan't something like that.
4-More movies would be great and welcome, good ones! I did not like the casting of Gadot initially, but felt she was the best of the BvS movie. Audiences applauded all over the place. She has superpowers, does not need 18" biceps!
THanks for your post, very engaging.

 

[Frodo]

A fish rots from the head, etc. Tsujihara is the one to blame. He could have taken a deep breath after MoS and map out a far more patient "cinematic universe". Instead, pushed the panic button and here we are.

Its ironic given that post Batman and Robin through TDK Trilogy WB studio heads were pretty skiddish over moving forward these properties. Under Tsujihara, they went head first, all- in.

 

[TheVileOne]

[YT]5YjGrZYRAtc[/YT]

 

[Lily Adler]

So now we know it's the CEO rushing projects to catch up to Marvel... Well we're in a pickle.

 

[TheVileOne]

Its ironic given that post Batman and Robin through TDK Trilogy WB studio heads were pretty skiddish over moving forward these properties. Under Tsujihara, they went head first, all- in.

Tsujihara isn't a fan though and doesn't live and breathe the DC Universe like Kevin Feige does with Marvel.

 

[writer0327]

My question is will DC just stay on course regardless? Like if Wonder Woman is released to bad reviews, does DC just shrug their shoulders and keep moving forward?

 

[MadVillainy]

My question is will DC just stay on course regardless? Like if Wonder Woman is released to bad reviews, does DC just shrug their shoulders and keep moving forward?

Not if the movies disappoint financially

 

[ManWithNoName18]

When it comes down to it its all money, MOS made some decent money but no where close to TDK or TDKR money. If rumors are to believed BVS broke even. There's some conflicting reports out there about SS budget being higher than 175 million and what it needs to profit. Also Wonder Woman has a 150 million dollar budget.

I think if both of them score in the 600 million range its justification enough to keep making the movies. However reviews good or bad for these big movie could mean hundreds of millions dollars lost or gained.

Imagine how much money a BVS with even a 70 percent rt score could have made.damn Imagine the kind of money a BVS with a TDK 94 percent rt score could have made.

There's still incentive to make good movies

 

[writer0327]

I mean I just want the films to get made, period, and will cross my fingers at this point that I'll enjoy them. After the great work of Nolan, my confidence is gone and I'm hoping they will restore it with a great film sooner than later.

 

[SamuraiX]

Because they're focused on creating universes, setting up movies and selling toys. Christopher Nolan was focused on telling a story. That's why it worked so well.

Also, they aren't really getting writers and directors with a great track record. IMO, that's important. It's important to put these projects in the hands of people who have done a great job multiple times in the past. Not that an unproven director can't do a good job, but you have millions to spend, why not get the best guys? I think WB wouldn't regret it, but i guess they don't care.

Just for the record: I think Marvel suffers from a lot of the same problems as DC. It's beyond me how they manage to get such great reviews every time, because i certainly don't feel they're telling me any sort of great story. I honestly think they simply made great casting choices and that kind of makes up for the basic, formulatic, messy and predictable storytelling we get in almost each movie. People just like to watch guys like RDJ. To me, RDJ as Tony Stark doesn't really need to be doing much in order to be entertaining.

Marvel also hits heavy on the casual jokes, which is something the masses enjoy.

 

[MadVillainy]

Because they're focused on creating universes, setting up movies and selling toys. Christopher Nolan was focused on telling a story. That's why it worked so well.

Also, they aren't really getting writers and directors with a great track record. IMO, that's important. It's important to put these projects in the hands of people who have done a great job multiple times in the past. Not that an unproven director can't do a good job, but you have millions to spend, why not get the best guys? I think WB wouldn't regret it, but i guess they don't care.

Just for the record: I think Marvel suffers from a lot of the same problems as DC. It's beyond me how they manage to get such great reviews every time, because i certainly don't feel they're telling me any sort of great story. I honestly think they simply made great casting choices and that kind of makes up for the basic, formulatic, messy and predictable storytelling we get in almost each movie. People just like to watch guys like RDJ. To me, RDJ as Tony Stark doesn't really need to be doing much in order to be entertaining.

Marvel also hits heavy on the casual jokes, which is something the masses enjoy.

Because of "fun" that's why Marvel keeps winning

That and 99% of the time Marvel makes a coherent movie. WB from what I hear has had problem with telling a coherent movie with Suicide Squad. That would make 2/3 DC movies that are incoherent

 

[SamuraiX]

Because of "fun" that's why Marvel keeps winning

That and 99% of the time Marvel makes a coherent movie. WB from what I hear has had problem with telling a coherent movie with Suicide Squad. That would make 2/3 DC movies that are incoherent

I would certainly not use the word "coherent" to describe a Marvel movie.

 

[MadVillainy]

I would certainly not use the word "coherent" to describe a Marvel movie.

Then I think you have some confusion about what coherent means. Because say what you want about Marvel but the movies for the vast majority are coherent, they flow, and aren't edited horribly when it comes to story

 

[writer0327]

I would certainly not use the word "coherent" to describe a Marvel movie.

I would. For the most part, Marvel makes a straightforward movie. The three DCEU films have all received the same criticisms: muddled, confusing, messy.

Visually, DC has knocked it out of the park, but storywise, they have been more complicated to the average Joe who doesn't read comics.

 

[SamuraiX]

Then I think you have some confusion about what coherent means. Because say what you want about Marvel but the movies for the vast majority are coherent, they flow, and aren't edited horribly when it comes to story

What's so coherent about Tony Stark manipulating a kid he barely knows so he can use him in his little war? Since Spider-Man was fighting alongside Tony, which in this movie is the play-by-the-book guy, did he sign the Sokovia Accords? If not, how and why is he operating alongside Tony? That's never explained or addressed, IIRC, and doesn't seem very coherent to me.

 

[MadVillainy]

I didn't say they're coherent all the time I said most (99%) of the time. Which they are. They're not perfect, but most of their movies are clear. A happens because B and C happened before A.

 

[SamuraiX]

I didn't say they're coherent all the time I said most (99%) of the time. Which they are. They're not perfect, but most of their movies are clear. A happens because B and C happened before A.

I'm pretty sure Marvel is incoherent way more than just 1% of the time. I just mentioned something incoherent and i didn't even have to think much. It just came to me. People just don't seem very predisposed to nitpick what comes from Marvel because the movies have elements that make up for all the bad storytelling. Not to me, but for a large portion of the audience. They generally also don't deal with characters as controversial as Batman and Superman.

Also, what's coherent and what's not coherent is highly debatable. You might say something doesn't make any sense but there might be people who can make sense of it. You can think something makes total sense, but maybe i can offer you a couple reasons to why it doesn't. So, i really don't agree with this idea that Marvel = Coherent DC = Incoherent. If anything they're both very incoherent more often than not.

 

[Creo]

I'm pretty sure Marvel is incoherent way more than just 1% of the time. I just mentioned something incoherent and i didn't even have to think much. It just came to me. People just don't seem very predisposed to nitpick what comes from Marvel because the movies have elements that make up for all the bad storytelling. Not to me, but for a large portion of the audience. They generally also don't deal with characters as controversial as Batman and Superman.

Also, what's coherent and what's not coherent is highly debatable. You might say something doesn't make any sense but there might be people who can make sense of it. You can think something makes total sense, but maybe i can offer you a couple reasons to why it doesn't. So, i really don't agree with this idea that Marvel = Coherent DC = Incoherent. If anything they're both very incoherent more often than not.

That's because what you mentioned has nothing to do with being coherent, it's just missing, and uneeded, information that can be easily implied. It doesn't make anything confusing, and the addition of a 1 minute scene of Peter signing the accords is unnecessary.

Lex Luthor cutting open his hand and dumping the body of Zod into alien water and having it transform into Doomsday is incoherent because it never tells us why this happens. Or why Lex knows about it.

If you'd defaulted to Thor in AoU, I'd have agreed. What you mentioned is frivilous.

MCU movies are significantly more coherent than what I've seen in the DCEU so far. You may disagree, but those paid to review movies have almost universally brought the point up.

 

[StormC]

Marvel movies usually have to have their lack of logic nitpicked. DCEU movies are kind enough to present that lack of logic up front.

AOU is the only Marvel movie where I felt seriously "wait, what?" while watching.