Why Thor or Superman cannot beat Sentry.

[bkhedr]

I just looked through the issue. He's hungry and trying to feed off of Ego, but Ego fights him to stop him from doing so. Thor shows up and decides to help Ego out, so he throws Mjolnir and it hurts Galactus, then he uses a god blast and it makes Galactus turn tail claiming he'd die if he got hit by it.

That was waaay back in the day though wasnt it? (I have the maximum security reprint of that issue) How do you know that it was that Galactus that Sentry stalemated?

I'm just asking if its a guess or if it says so anywhere

 

[Purple Man]

I don't think there is anyone that can stand up to a god blast.
And here is two reasons why.

1. It has been the only thing ever to stop the Juggernaut.

2. It cracked a Celestials armor.

No one else has ever had the power to perform such feats.

God blast aside though Sentry would annihilate Thor.

 

[herakles]

I just looked through the issue. He's hungry and trying to feed off of Ego, but Ego fights him to stop him from doing so. Thor shows up and decides to help Ego out, so he throws Mjolnir and it hurts Galactus, then he uses a god blast and it makes Galactus turn tail claiming he'd die if he got hit by it.

I have that the same issue and your right he was weakened by fighting Ego BUT Thor did injured him as well as Beta Ray Bill has recently. So IMO Thor can and did defeat Galactus.

I've always felt that Galactus was only a threat to planets and spaceships with his technology. Also aside from Galactus creating Haralds that do his fighting for him. My point is that from what I've read when Galactus is involved other people fight for him. But hey what do I know.

 

[Red]

1. It has been the only thing ever to stop the Juggernaut..

When Hulk was horseman to apocalypse he he stopped Juggernaunt.

 

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

I don't think there is anyone that can stand up to a god blast.
And here is two reasons why.

1. It has been the only thing ever to stop the Juggernaut.

2. It cracked a Celestials armor.

No one else has ever had the power to perform such feats.

God blast aside though Sentry would annihilate Thor.

I still think the Destroyer could And strange.

 

[Purple Man]

He didn't so much as stop the Juggernaut as tie up his leg and throw him.

That was a commendable feat, but Thor stopped his forward charge and actually pushed him backwards.

And is it just me, or was the whole Superman vs Venom thing completely ridiculous? Supes could have easily melted the symbiote off of brock.

 

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

He didn't so much as stop the Juggernaut as tie up his leg and throw him.

That was a commendable feat, but Thor stopped his forward charge and actually pushed him backwards.

And is it just me, or was the whole Superman vs Venom thing completely ridiculous? Supes could have easily melted the symbiote off of brock.

If he knew that fire was a weakness and that it wouldn't kill him. Remember Superman is a boyscout and always holds back. But yes it was/is ridiculous. But so are most matchups.

 

[bkhedr]

And is it just me, or was the whole Superman vs Venom thing completely ridiculous? Supes could have easily melted the symbiote off of brock.

That's what we've been saying for five pages



and I think the Destroyer might be able to crack a Celestial

and I'm not so sure that Sentry would annihilate Thor

 

[Tropico]

Could you please do us all a big favor, Horrorfan, and not directly reply to these posts if you're not going to read a single thing in them?

I already said, "assume that the Venom fight is canon." That means that I am assuming the Venom fight is canon. It does not mean "I still don't think the Venom fight is canon." If that's what I meant, I would have said it. But I didn't. So there goes the first three paragraphs of your post.

My point was that even if the Venom fight is in canon, you can't hold it up as some sort of supreme proof of Venom's superiority because someone like me would then readily reply with pictures of Superman moving moons and planet around. You know, like exactly what has happened in this thread that you've been reading? If both are in canon, then the only way you would still be able to tout Venom's superiority is by ignoring the canonical evidence that I've given you. Which, coincidentally, you've done.

So how exactly do you determine whether one piece of canon is more canonical than the other? Well, that's a big subject matter that I don't truly have the answers to, but what I do know is that you've determined that one piece of canon is more canonical than the other purely and utterly out of BIAS: you don't mind Venom beating Superman but don't like it when DC characters move planets around, so you've elevated Venom beating Superman as higher canon than him moving planets around. Which, by the by, is exactly what you continuously accuse other people of doing. Glass houses, chum. Glass houses.

If Superman can move planets and is still being beaten by Venom then that's just bad writing, period. It has nothing whatsoever to do with comic book logic, and I have no idea why you are still harping on that because it is an entirely different subject matter. Comic book logic means that certain things happen in this fictional universe which do not happen in ours, but always with its own rules and logics. It does not mean that random illogical sht happens with no explanation or reason. Venom beating Superman definitely ranks as random illogical sht happens with no explanation or reason.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The Destroyer was created to fight Celestials one-on-one, but it failed miserably. Outside of Celestials, though, the Destroyer is pretty much an unstoppable powerhouse. Thor's never actually been able to defeat it in a fair fight and, to my knowledge, neither has anyone besides the Celestials (who are even more powerful than Galactus, so it's nothing to be ashamed of). I'd love to see a throwdown between the Destroyer and the Juggernaut at his classic power level. I think he, King Thor, and War Hulk are probably the only ones who stand a halfway decent shot at physically defeating the Destroyer one-on-one.

As for Galactus himself, measuring anyone's power against his own is troublesome for a number of reasons. How hungry he is plays a huge role in how powerful he is. As I mentioned, he was hungry when he was fighting Ego and Thor chased him away. If Galactus had just fed and decided to come to Earth, I doubt there's anything anyone other than Reed Richards with like 4 Ultimate Nullifiers could do to stop him. Also, consider the fact that Galactus empowered the Silver Surfer with a portion of his own power. A tiny, tiny fraction, in fact. The Surfer's a match for Thor all by himself. Do the math. Thor's "win" over Galactus with the god blast is circumstantial at best, and I don't really consider it a win. I love Thor but there are limits to his standard power beyond which he just becomes absurd.

I suspect the Sentry's stalemate with Galactus was pretty circumstantial as well, but we'll probably never know. It was never even shown, it was just mentioned in passing in the original Sentry mini. I'd take it with a grain of salt. He's powerful but there's nothing that I've seen to say that he'd really be more powerful by leaps and bounds than any of the other heavy-hitters like Thor or the Silver Surfer in his current incarnation.

 

[Horrorfan]

My point was that even if the Venom fight is in canon, you can't hold it up as some sort of supreme proof of Venom's superiority because someone like me would then readily reply with pictures of Superman moving moons and planet around. You know, like exactly what has happened in this thread that you've been reading? If both are in canon, then the only way you would still be able to tout Venom's superiority is by ignoring the canonical evidence that I've given you. Which, coincidentally, you've done.
.

I didn't say Venom WAS superior to superman... I said superman is more powerful, and more likely would beat him 99% of the time. However, in THAT particular fight, Venom won. I NEVER said Venom was superior; I DID, however, say Venom won that particular fight. I hate superman and all uber powerful dc main characters on principle that they all seem so boring and flawless and super perfect and can move planets with fair amount of ease, but even I can't say Venom would beat him most of the time.

As for the guy complaining about lobo and x fans....well the fact the x men aren't dc characters automatically puts them above lobo, ww, and the rest imo, and I would have voted just to piss off the whiners who complain about it if I could have.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Superman hasn't been able to move planets for at least 20 years. I agree that it makes sense that not every powerful hero wins every fight against a weaker opponent. What I don't agree with is that in the specific Venom/Supes fight shown, there's no logic given for why that fight would ever work. Venom just shows up and starts beating on Superman like Superman's a child. At least when they had Spider-Man fight Superman they came up with a somewhat plausible explanation for how it'd work despite the power gap--red sun radiation. Spider-Man was saturated with it and it basically bypasses Superman's powers since Kryptonians are no different from humans under a red sun. In that Venom fight Venom kicked Superman around because... why? It made no sense when you compare their respective powers and in-canon feats.

 

[Horrorfan]

He's powerful but there's nothing that I've seen to say that he'd really be more powerful by leaps and bounds than any of the other heavy-hitters like Thor or the Silver Surfer in his current incarnation.

Dude has pretty much beaten (or at least stalemated) pretty much ALL the marvel heroes as the Void, and broken Hulk's bones with almost NO effort. Thor could barely take on Hulk and win, nevermind break all his bones without even trying.

 

[Horrorfan]

Superman hasn't been able to move planets for at least 20 years. I agree that it makes sense that not every powerful hero wins every fight against a weaker opponent. What I don't agree with is that in the specific Venom/Supes fight shown, there's no logic given for why that fight would ever work. Venom just shows up and starts beating on Superman like Superman's a child. At least when they had Spider-Man fight Superman they came up with a somewhat plausible explanation for how it'd work despite the power gap--red sun radiation. Spider-Man was saturated with it and it basically bypasses Superman's powers since Kryptonians are no different from humans under a red sun. In that Venom fight Venom kicked Superman around because... why? It made no sense when you compare their respective powers and in-canon feats.

If Venom showed up from nowhere, supes wouldnt know his power levels, and would probably take him super lightly, and thus be taken by surprise. Like you said about Thor and Superman, you can only take someone by surprise once.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

If Superman didn't know how fast a 9mm bullet was moving, would that have any bearing on the fact that it wouldn't penetrate his skin? No because Superman is literally invincible to bullets. You could shoot him right in the eyeball and he wouldn't flinch. Who cares if he doesn't know Venom's power level? Look at their respective powers and feats. Superman taking Thor by surprise is one thing, and it's kind of believable (though the fight presented showed Thor fighting at a fraction of his full power) because Superman and Thor are close in power level. Venom is literally nowhere near powerful enough to manhandle Supes the way he does in that comic. It makes no sense no matter how you look at it, unless you just throw everything about either character out the window and rewrite their powers.

Dude has pretty much beaten (or at least stalemated) pretty much ALL the marvel heroes as the Void, and broken Hulk's bones with almost NO effort. Thor could barely take on Hulk and win, nevermind break all his bones without even trying.

Robert Reynolds was both the Sentry and the Void. Robert Reynolds has become only the Void while splitting the Sentry off into another body as of his last mini-series. We don't know what his power level is like after that particular change. Plus, the Void is always more powerful than the Sentry. That's why the Sentry didn't just fight the Void at the end of his first mini; he chose to make the world forget about him to depower the Void because he knew he could never win against him. Plus plus, the Sentry's power level is tied to his emotions. That means they fluctuate regularly. So, in other words, we have literally no clue what the Sentry's power level is like now except that the events of the past have little bearing on it because, for all intents and purposes, he's been given a fresh start as of the end of his last mini. What we do know is that his recent feats aren't all that impressive. Impressive, yes, but certainly not Galactus-busting impressive. He could barely hold his own against the Thunderbolts' Photon, for example. He couldn't really handle the fiery mutant power guy in New Avengers, either. Going by the totality of comic appearances and circumstances, which you champion so highly, he clearly seems to be less powerful than his Galactus stalemating days now.

 

[Anubis]

Well, to be fair, that dude had the powers of all the mutants that lost they're powers during HoM. Not Galactis powerful, but most certainly up there.

 

[Horrorfan]

I
Robert Reynolds was both the Sentry and the Void. Robert Reynolds has become only the Void while splitting the Sentry off into another body as of his last mini-series. .

I haven't read the last one, I was waiting for it to be collected

 

[Horrorfan]

If Superman didn't know how fast a 9mm bullet was moving, would that have any bearing on the fact that it wouldn't penetrate his skin? No because Superman is literally invincible to bullets. You could shoot him right in the eyeball and he wouldn't flinch. Who cares if he doesn't know Venom's power level? Look at their respective powers and feats. Superman taking Thor by surprise is one thing, and it's kind of believable (though the fight presented showed Thor fighting at a fraction of his full power) because Superman and Thor are close in power level. Venom is literally nowhere near powerful enough to manhandle Supes the way he does in that comic. It makes no sense no matter how you look at it, unless you just throw everything about either character out the window and rewrite their powers.

Robert Reynolds was both the Sentry and the Void. Robert Reynolds has become only the Void while splitting the Sentry off into another body as of his last mini-series. We don't know what his power level is like after that particular change. Plus, the Void is always more powerful than the Sentry. That's why the Sentry didn't just fight the Void at the end of his first mini; he chose to make the world forget about him to depower the Void because he knew he could never win against him. Plus plus, the Sentry's power level is tied to his emotions. That means they fluctuate regularly. So, in other words, we have literally no clue what the Sentry's power level is like now except that the events of the past have little bearing on it because, for all intents and purposes, he's been given a fresh start as of the end of his last mini. What we do know is that his recent feats aren't all that impressive. Impressive, yes, but certainly not Galactus-busting impressive. He could barely hold his own against the Thunderbolts' Photon, for example. He couldn't really handle the fiery mutant power guy in New Avengers, either. Going by the totality of comic appearances and circumstances, which you champion so highly, he clearly seems to be less powerful than his Galactus stalemating days now.

About Venom and Supes, hey I didn't write it.

Why would Sentry's power level change anyway now they have split off? Reynolds didn't seem to have the power, Sentry was always from the potion...so I have no clue why it wouldn't affect things.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Why would the Sentry's power level stay the same? Up until then he and the Void had shared a body. Now they're in two separate bodies. Maybe just under half the power went to the Sentry body and just over half of it stayed with the Void body. It's speculation, but a general weakening is confirmed by the Sentry's recent appearances. The only part I'm speculating about is how he got that way.

 

[Horrorfan]

Why would the Sentry's power level stay the same? Up until then he and the Void had shared a body. Now they're in two separate bodies. Maybe just under half the power went to the Sentry body and just over half of it stayed with the Void body. It's speculation, but a general weakening is confirmed by the Sentry's recent appearances. The only part I'm speculating about is how he got that way.

As you might say, his powers fluctuating is a result of 'bad writing', maybe?

But yeah, Sentry is NOT really the void, and void isn't Sentry.....so I'm not sure how one would effect the other's powers. I'm pretty much guessing they are more or less equally powerful, maybe void is slightly more, but since they are pretty much the ying to each others yang, I'm guessing they have the same balance of power.

 

[Badfish40oz]

Sorry if I'm late, but I just wanted to add something to the whole crossover "canon" debate.

I'm assuming JLA/Avengers is considered canon because it was referenced in an actual DC book (and because Superman beat Thor . . I bet if it was the other way around DC fans would be saying it didn't count). The "egg" Krona was trapped in is shown in a JLA book.

The same can be said for the Marvel/DC books of the mid-90's. Access, the dumb-looking guy who keeps the universes seperated, appeared in the Green Lantern #87 and even made reference to the Silver Surfer. If that's not DC calling the DC/Marvel thing "canon," I don't know what is.

And if you want to get crazy, you could use the JLA/Avengers logic with the Superman/Venom fight. Maybe the symbiote is just super-powerful in the DC world?

God I am such a dork right now . .

 

[herakles]

Dude has pretty much beaten (or at least stalemated) pretty much ALL the marvel heroes as the Void, and broken Hulk's bones with almost NO effort. Thor could barely take on Hulk and win, nevermind break all his bones without even trying.

Thor fights honorably so when he fights Hulk he uses either Mjolnir minus it magic or his fists. I don't remember (just off the top of my head) Thor using the God Blast on anyone other than the Celestials, Galactus, and Juggernaut, but I could be wrong. Also Thor hardly uses his Belt of Strength that doubles his considerable Strength. Also in the King Thor arch Thor took on Thing, Hulk, Woverine, and Captain America KILLING ALL 4.

With that said we ALL need to be subjective when it comes to gauging Character's powers because usually characters are made as powerful or as weak to suit to what the writter of the comic that character is appearing in wants. So that is why Vemon got the upper hand on Superman. When looking at the careers of both characters Superman would win 99.99999% of the time. Also with Thor coming back don't be too surprise if he fights with the a character with the power level of Sentry, Hulk, Juggernaut, Silver Surfer, and Beta Ray Bill he wins just to give him a boost?

 

[Horrorfan]

With that said we ALL need to be subjective when it comes to gauging Character's powers because usually characters are made as powerful or as weak to suit to what the writter of the comic that character is appearing in wants. So that is why Vemon got the upper hand on Superman. When looking at the careers of both characters Superman would win 99.99999% of the time. Also with Thor coming back don't be too surprise if he fights with the a character with the power level of Sentry, Hulk, Juggernaut, Silver Surfer, and Beta Ray Bill he wins just to give him a boost?

Thank you, someone understands what I'm trying to say

 

[herakles]

Thank you, someone understands what I'm trying to say

I uderstand BUT if I was writting Thor and I had him fighting Sentry or Superman I'd have Thor use his Belt of Strength along with his armour which is as durable as Mjolnir.

Or I could be a real cheatting bastard and take page from Simonson and have Thor take possession of the Destroyer who has unlimited Strength along with other devasting powers coupled with Mjolnir's powers either way I think the outcome be in favor of Thor.

What I am trying to say is that Thor is much more versatile in regards to his powers and capabilities and he has been written with a warrrior's honor (or just plain honor) that he has a tendancy to fight at the power level or fighting level of his opponant. That is why you see Thor getting ugly in his battles with Galactus, the Celestials, Hela and the Midgard Serpent.

 

[Whirlysplat]

So much drivel in one thread.......... Amazing.

Moving on.....

Sorry if I'm late, but I just wanted to add something to the whole crossover "canon" debate.

I'm assuming JLA/Avengers is considered canon because it was referenced in an actual DC book. God I am such a dork right now . .

It's also referenced in the Avengers hand book, don't put yourself down.

- Whirly