Without the Wrestling Thread, There Is...No...You! - - - Part 188

[TheNextNolan22]

Seriously, McMahon said championships don't matter to his BIGGEST MONEY MAKER EVER.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Some notes from Big Dave on New Japan World.

Regarding English commentary on New Japan World, it was addressed last night and Takaaki Kidani said they were looking into doing so. Nothing on an English language web site, but New Japan already has an English language regular site so that could be coming. There was some talk about how the Muhammad Ali vs. Antonio Inoki match is not on the site, and that's generally considered the most important match in New Japan history.

There are really a ton of major matches not up, particularly a lot of great Choshu's Army stuff from 1982-83. One thing that hit me watching the 80s stuff is just how much more of a fight feel there was to the matches, how they felt less pre-planned and just how much bigger the promotion was then. But there is a ton of great stuff including the Inoki vs Billy Robinson match from 1975, Inoki & Sakaguchi vs. Lou Thesz & Karl Gotch, Inoki vs. Hulk Hogan (more than one), Inoki & Bob Backlund vs. Hulk Hogan & Stan Hansen, Inoki vs. Bruiser Brody (at least two including a 60 minute draw with no commentary), Every January 4th Tokyo Dome match ever held, plus the New Japan vs. All Japan matches from the 1990 Dome show which never aired on television when they took place and also have no commentary.

Every PPV from the last couple of years is up. The bar on the bottom blows away the WWE Network and the navigation is much better (if you use Google Chrome to translate). The audio and sound quality is amazing.

Takaaki Kidani didn't give any numbers, but he said today how surprised he was at how many people outside Japan signed up. He said nothing about domestic numbers, but said outside Japan orders blew away expectations.

 

[Incrediblejeff]

Vince sure hates the term"Pro Wrestling"and keeps sticking to "Sports Entertainment". Austin mentioned both and Vince right away corrects him that his father did pro wrestling and of course mentions how he had Austin sing and stuff

That bothered me so much.Everytime Vince said Sports Entertainment it drove me nuts.A lot of things about that interview drove me nuts.I did like Austin mentioning TNA multiple times.

 

[TX85]

Vince is one that decided that the streak should finally be broken and Taker just got to choose his opponent to do it. I wonder how pissed off Taker was since Vince hesitated in agreeing that Taker was probably shocked

 

[Hunter Rider]

That's one of the instances where I believe Vince just said something to cover his own shortsightedness. It was obviously Vince's call to put the belt on Lesnar, despite the fact that he is only contracted for a certain amount of appearances. The backlash against that decision is getting louder, as people are becoming more and more frustrated with not having a champion on tv, at the pay per views or at the house shows. Vince isn't at a point where he can say "yeah, putting the title on a part timer was a mistake"...particularly not in the middle of said part timer's reign. So, he simply said "the title doesn't matter" to cover his error in judgment as Austin tried to call him on it. It was a stupid thing to say, as it was insulting to his entire industry, particularly every worker who has held any iteration of that championship, busting their humps in the process to make it mean something. It was also insulting to all of us as consumers...why should we invest in your product if you're presenting matches for a world championship that "doesn't matter?" But, that's what happens when you do a (seemingly) live broadcast...sometimes you say something absurd in the moment without having time to consider your words.

Obviously, the championship matters. Yes, it's a worked sport, but the belts are more than the props that people like Russo claim they are. If the title "doesn't matter," then I wonder how Vince would react if Lesnar decided to go into business for himself at Wrestlemania. If Brock decided he didn't want to job for Reigns or Cena or whoever on his way out the door, started shooting, and walked out of Levi's Stadium with the WWE World championship belt, I can guarantee we'd see how much that title "mattered" to Vince.

I can see your take but I guess I find Vince so deluded in his own self importance I am not sure, I think his disdain for pro wrestling has grown over the years and maybe Russo's mentality had an effect on him further. I mean I am sure him and Austin prepped for the interview, for him to answer with that instead of something "Well in the golden era we didn't see the WWE title defended regularly so this is a chance to make each title match feel special given it's rarity." Either speaks to him meaning it or simply feweling he can say anything and it will be accepted.

I mean on top of that was the Cena/brass ring comments that were followed with Brock being the only one "Worthy" of ending the streak, contradiction and a slap in the face to Cena with a double slap to Orton.

I dunno man, I just think he lives in his own world these days, mainly because so few around him now call him on anything he does.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Vince addresses the CM Punk situation

He apologizes and said he got his severance papers on his wedding day and was coincidence. He says there have been disgruntled people in the past that spoken out and he won’t air the dirty laundry. Vince goes on to say that he hopes one day they will be able to get back together again. He wants to give the audience what is best for business. Vince says he is open to work with him again. Vince also admits that he did not listen to the podcast and he heard some things that was said.

Vince says there is a lack of communication between him and Punk. He
says he is a loner and that Punk lacks those communication skills. He said that attorneys got involved and thinks it’s a lack of communication.

Vince added much like it has happened in the past with guys like Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin and The Ultimate Warrior, he hopes WWE and CM Punk can do business together again in the future.

 

[TheVileOne]

Grab that brass ring...just don't piss anyone off.

 

[Herolee10]

Honestly, unlike Steve Austin, Hogan, and the Warrior...I can't see CM Punk wanting to ever work with the WWE again (unless a major shift in power took place) simply because for all the crap that Punk took, he was never made THE GUY like wrestlers mentioned above were during their prime in the company as compensation for the crap that he took.

Heck, even if he did think about working with them again, by the time he did so, Vince would be dead.

 

[OnTheAir]

I can see your take but I guess I find Vince so deluded in his own self importance I am not sure, I think his disdain for pro wrestling has grown over the years and maybe Russo's mentality had an effect on him further. I mean I am sure him and Austin prepped for the interview, for him to answer with that instead of something "Well in the golden era we didn't see the WWE title defended regularly so this is a chance to make each title match feel special given it's rarity." Either speaks to him meaning it or simply feweling he can say anything and it will be accepted.

I mean on top of that was the Cena/brass ring comments that were followed with Brock being the only one "Worthy" of ending the streak, contradiction and a slap in the face to Cena with a double slap to Orton.

I dunno man, I just think he lives in his own world these days, mainly because so few around him now call him on anything he does.

Oh, there's no question in my mind that Vince hates pro wrestling now and if he could figure out a way to eliminate that aspect of his company, he would. He's absolutely delusional in thinking that WWE is a multimedia entertainment entity. Yes, they dabble in movies and music and other ventures. And, yes, they produce a form of "episodic television." But, he needs to accept that they are still a professional wrestling company at their core. As long as the vast majority of their storytelling takes place in a ring, and as long as their primary product involves worked matches between "superstars" and between "divas," they are a pro wrestling company first and foremost. Vince can reject that assertion all he wants, but that doesn't make it any less true.

Maybe he has adopted Russo's viewpoint...or maybe this was his viewpoint all along and Russo adopted it from him. I'm just saying that more often than not, his actions have betrayed the ridiculous words he uttered tonight.

I definitely agree with your point about Cena and Orton...if anyone had to end the streak, they were certainly just as if not more worthy than Brock.

However, out of everything he said/did tonight, I was most offended by him rolling his eyes when Austin asked if there was a way for fans to reach out to him and voice their opinions/share their ideas. I'm not even necessarily saying he has to (or even should) want our feedback...but don't roll your eyes when being asked about communicating with your customers. That was extremely insulting.

 

[Herolee10]

Vince is pretty much the pro wrestling...I mean...Sports Entertainment version of Kim Jong Eun.lol

 

[Slushy]

I don't understand why McMahon hates wrestling so much. Might as well rename the company WSE: World Sports Entertaiment.

Seriously, McMahon said championships don't matter to his BIGGEST MONEY MAKER EVER.

If that wasn't the biggest slap in the face, I don't know what is. I mean if McMahon really thinks the WWE Title is just a prop, so be it, but you think he would've had some decorum.

Honestly, unlike Steve Austin, Hogan, and the Warrior...I can't see CM Punk wanting to ever work with the WWE again (unless a major shift in power took place) simply because for all the crap that Punk took, he was never made THE GUY like wrestlers mentioned above were during their prime in the company as compensation for the crap that he took.

Heck, even if he did think about working with them again, by the time he did so, Vince would be dead.

The biggest fail this year was not letting Punk get his redemption. Have him win the Royal Rumble at #1 and beat Orton to win the WWE Championship at Wrestlemania XXX and he might've stuck around. The deal with Batista ruined all that. A win over Triple H as a consolation prize wasn't good enough and rightfully so.

 

[sweetre15]

They should have given Punk the main event either at WM28 or WM29 so Punk could be a made man and when Bryan won WM30, they could have built Summerslam 2014 around those two finally headlining in a title match.

There was a lot of money to be made with Bryan/Punk as the Hart-Michaels of WWE.

 

[RetroNaz]

I can't help but think Vince isn't actually the problem with regard to the CM Punk situation.

There's also plenty we DON'T know about went went down behind the curtain. I work with guys like CM Punk...and whilst they're great at their job, they are a frigging nightmare to associate and work with on a personal level. Perhaps he's the same.

 

[runawayboulder]

Vince said championships don't matter...? Wrestlemania season is built around the complete opposite.

 

[E-Man]

I'm watching the Steve Austin podcast with Vince, and him saying that the talent isn't really reaching for the brass ring really must piss Mick Foley off. I remember this year when he wrote that blog about how their treatment of Zack Ryder makes the rest of the roster feel. He said that they have probably heard about grabbing Vince's brass ring all the time, and when one person does and gets over on their own they're punished for it. Now you have Vince saying that no one is reaching for that brass ring except Cena. Go figure.

 

[SpideyFan866]

They should have given Punk the main event either at WM28 or WM29 so Punk could be a made man and when Bryan won WM30, they could have built Summerslam 2014 around those two finally headlining in a title match.

There was a lot of money to be made with Bryan/Punk as the Hart-Michaels of WWE.

They didn't even have to do this.

All they had to do was execute their original plan for the event (prior to Batista expressing interest in returning), and have Daniel Bryan vs. Cena vs. Punk for the WWE WHC. And then proceed to give Punk some extended time off while they make a run with Bryan.

Had they done that (with or without Punk winning), he probably wouldn't have left.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Honestly, unlike Steve Austin, Hogan, and the Warrior...I can't see CM Punk wanting to ever work with the WWE again (unless a major shift in power took place) simply because for all the crap that Punk took, he was never made THE GUY like wrestlers mentioned above were during their prime in the company as compensation for the crap that he took.

Heck, even if he did think about working with them again, by the time he did so, Vince would be dead.

This whole situation with Punk goes beyond what happened with Bret and Austin.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

He calls him "Devi-Chan." They are such bros for life.

 

[H.U.S.T.L.E.]

So it's been a while since I last posted here, but I thought recent events warranted some discussion. For the record, I haven't been watching nearly as much wrestling as before, and while I follow the main WWE product through recaps I haven't watched a full show in ages. At this point, I'm down to watching NXT and Lucha Underground as my only regular wrestling programming.

Let's just start with the big news from the last week - Punk's sitdown with Cabana. Wow... there's so much to cover there, but I'll get my thoughts out as succinctly as possible. First off, I'm glad we finally got to hear his side of the story. While I'm not one of the people who absolutely needed to hear him speak to get closure, it was certainly eye-opening and confirmed a lot of what was already speculated. I don't feel the need to extensively cover a lot of what he said about Vince, HHH or doctors, but I did want to touch on what was said about Jericho since it's been making the rounds in the last day. When Punk mentioned that he didn't talk to guys like Jericho because they have an agenda, here's how I read into it.

Punk has a healthy dose of skepticism when it comes to anyone outside his inner circle - so even if Jericho was just reaching out sincerely and never had any intention of ever telling anyone that he and Punk spoke, I don't blame Punk for not replying. Cause let's face it, Jericho is in the business of self-promotion... it's not out of the realm of possibility for Jericho to go on his podcast and say "I heard from Punk the other day and he says he's doing fine. That's all I know so that's all I'll say." Even though it's relatively innocuous, that's still Jericho using a private conversation as a promotional tactic. Just saying, I don't blame Punk for not talking to guys like Jericho, JR or Austin who could spin it as some type of scoop. Hell, Mick Foley even tweeted Cabana "Congratulations for landing the big one!" When really, it wasn't about that, so I can see why Punk would be extremely wary of anyone who's in the business of self-promotion.

Moving on... Since Vince & HHH were a big topic on the podcast, I think it bears some discussion (especially in light of Vince's comments on Austin's live show last night, which full disclosure, I have not listened to). Based on everything we hear and what he said last night, Vince is clearly out of touch with today's generation and the sooner he's gone the better. And while the internet is now once again on the "**** HHH" bandwagon, I still firmly believe he's the best choice to run WWE after Vince is gone. While it's clear that HHH has been a jerk to many guys like Punk while he's been an active competitor, I do think it'll be very different once he's in charge and not wrestling any more. My only evidence is that he's tried his damnedest to give NXT products a shot and his willingness to put them over personally (The Shield especially). He supposedly goes to bat for guys like Cesaro behind the scenes (again, Vince is an idiot if he thinks that Cesaro doesn't have "it") and there's been strong speculation and evidence that he's frustrated with how NXT products are handled on the main roster. Once he's pulling the strings, I think the on-screen product will improve drastically. Backstage politically? It's doubtful considering how pro wrestling has always been full of drama, but at least you'll have someone who's a little more in-tune with the audience. Which in the long run, I believe will have a big effect on backstage attitude and morale.

There's a ton I've skipped over here, but I thought that it's been talked to death already so I didn't want to rehash too much of the discussion that's already occurred.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

 

[OctaviusINC]

Honestly, unlike Steve Austin, Hogan, and the Warrior...I can't see CM Punk wanting to ever work with the WWE again (unless a major shift in power took place) simply because for all the crap that Punk took, he was never made THE GUY like wrestlers mentioned above were during their prime in the company as compensation for the crap that he took.

Heck, even if he did think about working with them again, by the time he did so, Vince would be dead.

I believe Punk is done with WWE for good. Vince got teary eyed and hugged Punk upon his departure. When Punk walked Vince contacted him to come back. And in Austin's podcast Vince apologized and spoke positively about Punk's contributions to WWE.

Thing is Vince will inevitably be on his way out (whether it means retirement though probably kicking the bucket) and that means power would go to Triple H and Stephanie. And Punk made it clear he never liked Triple H. And it's clear Triple H and Steph don't like Punk. And I don't think either will put their differences aside for "what's best for business." Punk's happy and WWE made him loath wrestling. And Triple H never liked Punk in the first place. Even before Punk was so salty Triple H personally made sure to stop his momentum. Why would their feelings toward each other change? Especially after Cabana's podcast?

They're both ***** to each other. Punk doesn't need WWE. And Triple H will think WWE doesn't need Punk. They already practically erased Punk from WWE existence unless you really go looking for him. So all his hard work and sacrifices will be forgotten by future fans.

But, hey, if you asked me about Bret Hart back in '97/98 I'd say the same thing: He'd NEVER be back. But never say never in prowrest-er-sports entertainment.

 

[Kaleb]

 

[runawayboulder]

Devitt shouldn't give Kevin Dunn any ideas...

 

[chamber-music]

If Dixie managed to get Hogan 4 years ago, she can get Punk.

I doubt Punk would ever go back to TNA but if he did he would probably want some creative control like Hogan had and that might not actually be a bad thing seeing as Punk has some genuinely good ideas about making a wrestling company work in the 21st century.

I imagine Punk would pee off 90% of TNA's roster though. Plus Austin Ares and Punk really don't like each other.

 

[OctaviusINC]

Huh. Look kids! A blatant misuse of the word "legend".