Apocalypse X-Men: Apocalypse Box Office Prediction Thread - Part 6

[GuestStar2004]

Agreed.

If X-Force is a success they will have more then one crossover. These characters won't disappear from other IP's though. The majority can and should be interacting with each other through multiple films.

If X-force is a success there really is no reason to cross over, just make X-force movies and they can be successful alone, that's the thing.

This is what I am getting at, doing it once will be a big deal but how many times you gonna do it within a decade of movies? Every movie?

It's like gambit I am pretty sure this movie isnt being made because they wanna tease him before putting him in a team movie... No this is fox, they do not care about planning stuff like this out, this is about making a new trilogy about gambit that they can cash in on.

 

[def28]

X-Force is a branch of the X-Men universe and made up almost entirely of X-Men members. It will always be. There is no way to fully ignore the presence of the X-Men in those films.

Unless Fox creates a world where the X-Men never existed that main team will not be ignored.

It 's why i think New Mutant is very important. If Mcavoy and Shipp are still in, mainline X-Men movies will be in past. If they change their plan, we could have some surprise.

It's important but what if Gambit, Wolverine 3 and Deadpool 2 are in the present and are received stronger and are overall more successful. Chararacters like X-23, Gambit and Cable would be taking the priority at that point and the interest wouldn't be there in the past.

It would be like there are two X-Men IP's completely separate under the same name. That just makes things even more confusing for audiences. At some point they have to follow through with when everything is taking place and who is playing who.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Not really it's like the MCU movies and the MCU tv shows, it's same universe but doesn't mean there has to be a cross over.

 

[def28]

Marvel TV has had characters from the films show up. AOS is born through the events and characters from the Avengers.

I just don't see the X-Men being ignored or not involving themselves with other IP's. Or proof that they would do that. Even with Deadpool who is a lower threat then world ending villains the X-Men still showed up to some capacity to stop him. They are already established as characters in his world. I don't see that coming to a halt when the interactions were so well received by audiences. Things are gonna grow if anything.

 

[JEM]

X-Force is a branch of the X-Men universe and made up almost entirely of X-Men members. It will always be. There is no way to fully ignore the presence of the X-Men in those films.

Unless Fox creates a world where the X-Men never existed that main team will not be ignored.


It's important but what if Gambit, Wolverine 3 and Deadpool 2 are in the present and are received stronger and are overall more successful. Chararacters like X-23, Gambit and Cable would be taking the priority at that point and the interest wouldn't be there in the past.

It would be like there are two X-Men universes.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. I can see them make New Mutant in present in order to have some crossover with Deadpool, X-Force, Gambit.
But if NM is in past, that mean they still want to make X-Men movie in past. Not necessary a bad thing, Star Wars universe have multiple timeline.
But, it isn't easy, i admit.

 

[def28]

Gotcha

 

[GuestStar2004]

It 's why i think New Mutant is very important. If Mcavoy and Shipp are still in, mainline X-Men movies will be in past. If they change their plan, we could have some surprise.

Quite honestly it doesn't matter, if X-men and new mutants mix in the past going forward while gambit (when it's made) and deadpool are in present, depending when X-force even gets off the ground in another 4 or 5 years at this point there is no point worrying about it as it's just crying over spilt milk that was probably not on their to drink list any time soon anyway

That's the thing about this universe, it's not about creating teams so they can cross over every movie it's about each individual series of films and how they might add to another Like the apocalypse end credit scene teasing wolverine 3

I do agree that new mutants is important but only in that way that it will add something fresh to the universe and not to just allow cross over potential as I doubt creating new mutants as just another X-Men team would be a good idea at this point, it has to be different.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Marvel TV has had characters from the films show up. AOS is born through the events and characters from the Avengers.

Agents of shield is the only one that does it a lot and I hear many find its excuses to do it abit ridiculous and desperate now, I dunno about the Netflix shows, agent Carter was a spin off

I just don't see the X-Men being ignored or not involving themselves with other IP's. Or proof that they would do that. Even with Deadpool who is a lower threat then world ending villains the X-Men still showed up to some capacity to stop him. They are already established as characters in his world. I don't see that coming to a halt when the interactions were so well received by audiences. Things are gonna grow if anything.

X-men are the flagship team so they can't be ignored, although they can be mentioned very easy doesn't mean it has to be a cross over

 

[JEM]

Quite honestly it doesn't matter, if X-men and new mutants mix in the past going forward while gambit (when it's made) and deadpool are in present, depending when X-force even gets off the ground in another 4 or 5 years at this point there is no point worrying about it as it's just crying over spilt milk that was probably not on their to drink list any time soon anyway

That's the thing about this universe, it's not about creating teams so they can cross over every movie it's about each individual series of films and how they might add to another Like the apocalypse end credit scene teasing wolverine 3

I do agree that new mutants is important but only in that way that it will add something fresh to the universe and not to just allow cross over potential as I doubt creating new mutants as just another X-Men team would be a good idea at this point, it has to be different.

It possible to have a universe with X-Men, New Mutant in past and Deadpool, Gambit, X-Force in present. I agree and Star Wars is in same position.
My point is New Mutant and X-Men should be in the same period (approximately) because both take place in the X-Mansion.

New Mutant isn't a X-Men movie but it shows an others view on students. I can see a John Hughes movie in the X-Mansion like the Spider-Man Homecoming.
Macvoy and Shipp could be in NM because you need to have a strong connection with main serie.

But if they change plan for NW, it could affect the next X-Men movie. Both franchise are linked, more than others.
For now, i dont think they will change anything. We will see.

 

[def28]

X-men are the flagship team so they can't be ignored, although they can be mentioned very easy doesn't mean it has to be a cross over

Every film we have seen involves X-Men members though, I have no idea what you are basing this on where X-Men members suddenly won't appear in multiple films. One way or the other someone shows up, and we have yet to see otherwise.

Gambit won't just hang out by himself for years to come, Deadpool already has had X-Men crossover and X-Force has so many villains and conflicts that cause world threatening disaster that it would would be odd for the X-Men just to hang back without interacting with X-Force on some level. Some of their major villains are X-Men themselves and Cyclops alone plays a major part in X-Force volumes.

Given that pretty much every X-Force volume deals with the X-Men team I just don't see how this is possible. Unless they are creatively going into this with the "lets make sure no character with X-Men connections show up in our movie" attitude. Which again, makes no sense. They have all these characters ready to use and nobody is making X-Men movies in the present. There's just too many connections, stories, members and villains here that come from X-Men as well. It's not because it's forcing a crossover, it's because its baked in. At some point someone is showing up.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Given that pretty much every X-Force volume deals with the X-Men team I just don't see how this is possible. Unless they are creatively going into this with the "lets make sure no character with X-Men connections show up in our movie" attitude. Which again, makes no sense. They have all these characters ready to use and nobody is making X-Men movies in the present. There's just too many connections, stories, members and villains here that come from X-Men as well. It's not because it's forcing a crossover, it's because its baked in. At some point someone is showing up.

Well this is the film series and not the comics, this is also FOX and not marvel, but lets use the MCU as an example for a moment and say what about iron man 3 and captain america 2 which both had big finals that asked the question hey why didn't captain america show up to save the president or why didn't iron man show up while the helicarriers were falling out of the sky... its because the story didn't require them to be there as it wasn't about them which means they had to vanish out of existence for a few hours.

Tbh i seen very little to suggest this is gonna be a very easy series to cross over as the future portion of DOFP was set in 2023 which is not present day technically and that leaves the question of when is wolverine 3 set and gonna take a guess and say a few years after which also introduces X23 who looks about 12 or 13 so if she join X-FORCE she will have to be at least 16 right? so thats another few years so they ain't slowing down here

As for whether Cable will be a time traveler or not i imagine if he is that will open doors for whatever type of cross over they wanna do but either way this won't be a simple everything sits nicely in present day thing

 

[def28]

I'm talking about how the X-Men films themselves use their characters. This is a connected universe where characters show up in each others films. There's nothing showing or hinting otherwise. Everything points to the other direction. They want characters in an expanded universe, not to close them off from ever appearing. Which has been part of the issue with the past films.

If you are only discussing a major crossover that will be titled another IP name then we are then we are debating two different things.

The fact that X-Men have multiple IP's and an expanded universe does make them like Marvel. There's only about 3 other franchises that have that now. Marvel, DC, Star Wars and X-Men. All of those franchises are serial storytelling on a theatrical level. If nothing was connected or characters were not crossing over then it defeats the purpose of keeping them in the same universe.

 

[X-Maniac]

I'm talking about how the X-Men films themselves use their characters. This is a connected universe where characters show up in each others films. There's nothing showing or hinting otherwise. Everything points to the other direction. They want characters in an expanded universe, not to close them off from ever appearing. Which has been part of the issue with the past films.

If you are only discussing a major crossover that will be titled another IP name then we are then we are debating two different things.

The fact that X-Men have multiple IP's and an expanded universe does make them like Marvel. There's only about 3 other franchises that have that now. Marvel, DC, Star Wars and X-Men. All of those franchises are serial storytelling on a theatrical level. If nothing was connected or characters were not crossing over then it defeats the purpose of keeping them in the same universe.

I'm not sure they do want a connected universe to be honest. They want to exploit the possibilities, but they don't necessarily want them popping in and out of each other's films.

Just look at the TV series Legion. It will exist on its own and have no connections to the existing movies.

Deadpool 2 might well be used as a stepping stone to X Force and that's about the only time we have seen/will see a Disney/Marvel-type link.

But in general, Fox does not seem to want the sort of interconnections that Disney/Marvel uses. And when they try, it can feel awkward. They had someone grabbing the Weapon X vials at the end of X-Men: Apocalypse and yet the next Wolverine movie is set half a century later. Takes a long time to use what's in those vials.

(It's the same awkward logic as Mystique's tissue in 1973 not being able to be used to upgrade Sentinels for another 50 years, but we overlooked that because of the nature of the time travel story).

 

[GuestStar2004]

Sounds like suicide squad may have had a very impressive opening but a pretty big 40% drop after.

 

[iacobusleo]

I'm not sure they do want a connected universe to be honest. They want to exploit the possibilities, but they don't necessarily want them popping in and out of each other's films.

And when they try, it can feel awkward. They had someone grabbing the Weapon X vials at the end of X-Men: Apocalypse and yet the next Wolverine movie is set half a century later. Takes a long time to use what's in those vials.

(It's the same awkward logic as Mystique's tissue in 1973 not being able to be used to upgrade Sentinels for another 50 years, but we overlooked that because of the nature of the time travel story).

I think the specific examples you mentioned can be given a pass because it does take time for experimentation and weapons development to come to fruition. The Sentinel example in particular. Trask was killed in the original timeline, so it's logical to assume that development significantly slowed down without his input. Plus, the Rogue Cut confirmed that the Sentinels became so lethal not just because of Mystique's genetics, but Rogue's as well, so again the 50 year gap is not a stretch.

I actually do think that Fox does want a connected universe (for the movies anyway) since Marvel has shown that it reaps dividends (Hollywood studios love copying the latest trends). The only thing stopping them right now is that they don't really know how to do it, so having them be only vaguely connected for now is the safest bet.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Tbh in comparison to Sony and WB i ain't seeing fox being all that desperate for a cinematic universe unlike WB who are almost rushing to make an exact copy of the MCU while i don't get that same feeling from FOX, they haven't really pushed for something like that since X-Men Origins back in 2009 pre-mcu and they have pretty much held back since.

And i don't think deadpool counts because that script was written in 2010 pre-MCU before the universe thing was the big deal so when they made deadpool it wasn't a reaction to the MCU it was in the script already and had been for years.

 

[DavidHaller]

Does anybody knows how to find out how big the marketing budget is for these blockbuster movies?

I'm wondering how Warner Brothers is capable to sell these ridiculously bad DC movies like Suicide Squad and BvS on the first weekend while X-Men: Apocalypse failed at the boxoffice in the United States. Is it maybe possible that these movies are a lot more excessively promoted than X-Men? Or are people really more interested in random DC villains nobody had every heard of than in the X-Men?

I'm really wondering if this maybe also simply relates to very different marketing budgets?!

 

[GuestStar2004]

Its got nothing to do with marketing budgets its more about how they are marketed that counts.

They actually left suicide squad pretty late to drop the embargo for reviews unlike X-Men which was like a week or 2 before its release in countries like the UK and another week or 2 before its release in the states.

looks like suicide squad will suffer a bit maybe because of the reviews but when it comes to the reason the movie had alot of hype i am gonna put it down to the same reason deadpool and guardians of the galaxy did well... and thats the comedic fun aspect that doesn't take itself to seriously.

 

[Storm22]

How much can we expect be added to the ww box office once this opens in Japan?

 

[GuestStar2004]

How much can we expect be added to the ww box office once this opens in Japan?

From $9 to $20 mil

 

[Storm22]

From $9 to $20 mil

Cool. Thanks.

 

[X-Maniac]

Does anybody knows how to find out how big the marketing budget is for these blockbuster movies?

I'm wondering how Warner Brothers is capable to sell these ridiculously bad DC movies like Suicide Squad and BvS on the first weekend while X-Men: Apocalypse failed at the boxoffice in the United States. Is it maybe possible that these movies are a lot more excessively promoted than X-Men? Or are people really more interested in random DC villains nobody had every heard of than in the X-Men?

I'm really wondering if this maybe also simply relates to very different marketing budgets?!

I don't think it's got much to do with marketing.

Suicide Squad (a group of villains) is a fresh concept cinematically. It was edgy, funny, violent - the same sort of factors that gave Deadpool its appeal.

X-Men Apocalypse had a tired concept (global destruction... and the box office of Independence Day 2 proved that concept is worn out). And a villain no one seemed to like or care about (questionable make-up, no real substance apart from grandiose soap-box speeches).

X-Men Apocalypse could have been made to appear more 'fresh' but the filmmakers clearly weren't interested in doing that. They wanted to wrap up the trilogy by revisiting and concluding various themes, subplots and ideas from the previous films. Sadly, that comes across as a bit indulgent for a summer blockbuster.

Trailers focusing on Apocalypse and his speeches didn't help. It would be like a Marvel movie where Thanos dominated the marketing, or if they'd used Doomsday front and centre of the BvS marketing.

 

[superweirdo87]

It doesn't have to be either/or, X-Maniac.

Also, it seemed to me that the trailers were focused on the end of the world and the scale. There was the "beautiful world" (cringe) cover and the tagline, "Only the strong will survive." It was not "witness the end of the first class."

The first trailer opened with Jean Grey saying she saw the end of the world, and end with Professor X talking about how he had never felt power like that power. The second trailer again seemed to focus on destruction. We hear James McAvoy say that Apocalypse intends to kill billions of people. The third trailer was focused on Jennifer Lawrence. The idea of concluding an arc around their stories is not highlighted in the trailers or ads, the destruction and conflict are.

You might counter that the creators were focused on ending the trilogy, wrongly, and that turned people off. Many critics have noted is that Suicide Squad was not that different from other superhero movies in its plot and experience. The marketing sold Suicide Squad as something different.

The X-Men movies did kind of go in circles and that is a big problem. I do not think it would have been inevitable that the movie went in a circle because the creators wanted to end the story of Charles, Raven, and Erik. The movie could have concluded the stories of the first class quartet and been fresh and different with a more interesting visual style and plot set-up. Also, developing other characters in a huge cast focused on the end of the world could have still felt like more of the same. People have seen quite a few comic book movies focused on saving the world that introduce characters without much pay off.

 

[superweirdo87]

Does anybody knows how to find out how big the marketing budget is for these blockbuster movies?

I'm wondering how Warner Brothers is capable to sell these ridiculously bad DC movies like Suicide Squad and BvS on the first weekend while X-Men: Apocalypse failed at the boxoffice in the United States. Is it maybe possible that these movies are a lot more excessively promoted than X-Men? Or are people really more interested in random DC villains nobody had every heard of than in the X-Men?

I'm really wondering if this maybe also simply relates to very different marketing budgets?!

WB does spend more on marketing and shows, but I do not think it is just the budgets. Drew McWeeny noted that WB has one of the great publicity arms in the industry.

I do think that mass audiences, especially in the United States, are not much interested in the "First Class" cast. Personally, I became interested in X-Men because of them, and I love them. But, fewer people are interested in prequels with this cast than DC movies.

The brand power of some DC characters, especially Batman, is huge. Also, their marketing allows them to capitalize on their brands big time.

 

[X-Maniac]

It doesn't have to be either/or, X-Maniac.

Also, it seemed to me that the trailers were focused on the end of the world and the scale. There was the "beautiful world" (cringe) cover and the tagline, "Only the strong will survive." It was not "witness the end of the first class."

The first trailer opened with Jean Grey saying she saw the end of the world, and end with Professor X talking about how he had never felt power like that power. The second trailer again seemed to focus on destruction. We hear James McAvoy say that Apocalypse intends to kill billions of people. The third trailer was focused on Jennifer Lawrence. The idea of concluding an arc around their stories is not highlighted in the trailers or ads, the destruction and conflict are.

Well, I did say it had a tired concept (global destruction)... and there was a lot of Apoc in the trailers saying 'everything they've built will fall.'

It's a tricky issue when you have a villain called Apocalypse and a film called X-Men: Apocalypse. People would naturally expect some sort of (potential or actual) apocalypse in the plot.

There could have been other directions taken with the story, although Magneto is always going to be the obvious choice when it comes to world destruction because of his powers and how they could affect the Earth.

You might counter that the creators were focused on ending the trilogy, wrongly, and that turned people off. Many critics have noted is that Suicide Squad was not that different from other superhero movies in its plot and experience. The marketing sold Suicide Squad as something different.

Yes, and it worked for Suicide Squad. It did apparently still end with a 'save the world' cliche, but the trailers didn't give that away.

The X-Men movies did kind of go in circles and that is a big problem. I do not think it would have been inevitable that the movie went in a circle because the creators wanted to end the story of Charles, Raven, and Erik. The movie could have concluded the stories of the first class quartet and been fresh and different with a more interesting visual style and plot set-up. Also, developing other characters in a huge cast focused on the end of the world could have still felt like more of the same. People have seen quite a few comic book movies focused on saving the world that introduce characters without much pay off.

Yes, it could have tried to be more fresh and different and interesting, that could have made it more appealing to the masses.

I don't know why you are disagreeing because you are raising virtually the same points, lol...