Apocalypse X-Men Apocalypse News and Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 42

[GuestStar2004]

Honestly? I think Fox will also check out how "Spider-man: Homecoming" goes.

Well see the thing is Sony and FOX are in totally different position so would likely make different deals with marvel because either way they would be sharing the profit so it would have to be worth it for both of them esp fox who would have to feel its an attractive prospect because FOX own way more characters then what Sony did.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

IMO, X-men right will not go back to Marvel any day soon unless Fox is in big financial trouble. Period. Which is why I feel so tired of all these arguing about how MCU will do these characters' justice. They might, but they won't have the chance to do it. The only hope for X-men (especially comic) fans is to wish Fox would have the right creative team to develop better X-men movies.

It is all about money, do you think Fox will let X-men right back to MCU so that Marvel/Disney would get all the big money out of superhero movies? Fans of course can dream, but in reality, it is just not practical thinking;-)

The amusing thing is a total rights reversion hasn't really been the topic of discussion. But a joint partnership like sony to include them in the mcu has...

Don't get confused

 

[spideyboy_1111]

A revolving door doesn't sound like it would lead to that much development. IMO when multiple characters are sharing the screen, as with the X-Men, they need to appear consistently. Otherwise you can throw your development out. Unless they plan on making more X-Men team movies, just X-Men mind you(not X-Force/New Mutants those are their own movies), in shorter periods of time then I don't believe it could be done. I don't realistically see Marvel doing that. And we know damn well a good chuck of their stories will lead to Marvel crossovers and not just plain X-Men stories. There's no way around characters not being left on the outside looking in whenever one of these crossover events takes place.

And revolving door is better than the current "stick a mutant in have them do nothing and barely speak, kill them off or don't bring them back for a sequel" thing that keeps happening

 

[YoungBlood]

Once again, does anybody remember why Sony did the joint partnership?

I think it had to do with financial troubles and desperate for franchises.

But lets keep believing what we want.

 

[YoungBlood]

Well see the thing is Sony and FOX are in totally different position so would likely make different deals with marvel because either way they would be sharing the profit so it would have to be worth it for both of them esp fox who would have to feel its an attractive prospect because FOX own way more characters then what Sony did.

They don't care, common sense has been left this thread a long time ago.

 

[superweirdo87]

Honestly? I think Fox will also check out how "Spider-man: Homecoming" goes. But if it's a success and both Sony and Marvel make money and the reception is positive?

Well, then that's a matter of simply wanting to do business.

Again, two personalities, one on each side, that were the main roots of the Fox-Marvel conflict are now non-factors.

I don't know. What if they have an X-Force movie in development, it comes out, and grosses like 400M domestic/1B WW? And it draws on characters in their existing universe? It's clear that for MCU X-Men to work, they would have to be rebooted from scratch. Would Fox be on board for that if Deadpool makes a lot of money and includes characters from their X-Men movie license?

 

[Tymminator]

Well see the thing is Sony and FOX are in totally different position so would likely make different deals with marvel because either way they would be sharing the profit so it would have to be worth it for both of them esp fox who would have to feel its an attractive prospect because FOX own way more characters then what Sony did.

It doesn't have to be the same situation, it's all about business.

If Fox is only doing "OK" with X-Men but they come to a conclusion that working with another studio can substantially increase revenue, they are going to look into the possibility.

It doesn't mean they will definitely team up for a joint venture, but all the bad blood between them is gone and just because fans may think "this will never happen" that's because that's a lot of different fans saying that and as this board has easily shown, fans are mad are upset with each other for being on different sides but honestly don't financially profit from it one way or the other or have a financial stake in it.

Fox does want to profit from it as much as possible so it has a different perspective than a fan would.

In real life business doesn't really work like these message boards, because if relations are positive and there is profit to be made, you better believe people look into it, especially if previous attempts are not quite reaching potential.

Again it doesn't guarantee anything, but dialogue will happen.

 

[Tymminator]

I don't know. What if they have an X-Force movie in development, it comes out, and grosses like 400M domestic/1B WW? And it draws on characters in their existing universe? It's clear that for MCU X-Men to work, they would have to be rebooted from scratch. Would Fox be on board for that if Deadpool makes a lot of money and includes characters from their X-Men movie license?

Right now, until they actually start casting people, I'm treating X-Force the same way I'm treating Sony Sinister Six from back in the day, that was something they said would definitely be out on a certain date but it hasn't happened yet.

 

[YoungBlood]

It doesn't have to be the same situation, it's all about business.

If Fox is only doing "OK" with X-Men but they come to a conclusion that working with another studio can substantially increase revenue, they are going to look into the possibility.

It doesn't mean they will definitely team up for a joint venture, but all the bad blood between them is gone and just because fans may think "this will never happen" that's because that's a lot of different fans saying that and as this board has easily shown, fans are mad are upset with each other for being on different sides but honestly don't financially profit from it one way or the other or have a financial stake in it.

Fox does want to profit from it as much as possible so it has a different perspective than a fan would.

In real life business doesn't really work like these message boards, because if relations are positive and there is profit to be made, you better believe people look into it, especially if previous attempts are not quite reaching potential.

Again it doesn't guarantee anything, but dialogue will happen.

In that case, why don't they do that with Fantastic Four instead?

 

[superweirdo87]

It doesn't have to be the same situation, it's all about business.

If Fox is only doing "OK" with X-Men but they come to a conclusion that working with another studio can substantially increase revenue, they are going to look into the possibility.

But, Sony's position did matter because of shareholders. It was Sony's biggest franchise and they do not have many at a point where Hollywood is franchise-centric. They needed Spidey to kill it to make a case to Wall Street that they are an attractive place to invest.

Fox has Deadpool/X-Force, Avatar, and Apes. So, they did not face the same pressures. Studios need a big number at the top of their earnings report. Deadpool and Avatar give that to Fox.

"That’s especially true at a time when the studio is desperate for some major film franchises."

http://variety.com/2015/film/news/w...vels-big-gun-to-reboot-spider-man-1201429540/

Studios do have to make money and do business, but this industry has always been one that's included other considerations.

 

[YoungBlood]

Right now, until they actually start casting people, I'm treating X-Force the same way I'm treating Sony Sinister Six from back in the day, that was something they said would definitely be out on a certain date but it hasn't happened yet.

Actually, Sony had a release date for Sinister Six.
Fox just have release date holdings for a Fox-Marvel film for any of the films they were talking about doing.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Once again, does anybody remember why Sony did the joint partnership?

I think it had to do with financial troubles and desperate for franchises.

But lets keep believing what we want.

the Amazing Spider-Man 2 and X-men Apocalypse turned about the same amount of profit when all was said and done.. at least i don't believe there was a huge difference. Amz 2 did actually make money and didn't do horrible at the box office... but it was a "critical" failure.. it was panned by critics.. and sony dropped the ball... (in all honesty it was kinda like Fox's X3, which at the time was also the highest grossing X-men film, but it was a bad film)

Sony didn't really "need" to have spidey join the MCU... but they wanted to as they figured it could revive the property as well as bring in more income.

 

[superweirdo87]

Right now, until they actually start casting people, I'm treating X-Force the same way I'm treating Sony Sinister Six from back in the day, that was something they said would definitely be out on a certain date but it hasn't happened yet.

I don't think X-Force is truly comparable to Sinister 6. Deadpool was huge and seen rightly as wildly successful. And, there's a big appetite for X-Force out there. There's a lot more energy and excitement about X-Force. Plus, we know for sure that Deadpool 2 is coming. If it does really well, then it does not make much sense for Fox to hold off X-Force and team with Marvel because Apocalypse underperformed.

 

[Zarex]

Once again, does anybody remember why Sony did the joint partnership?

I think it had to do with financial troubles and desperate for franchises.

But lets keep believing what we want.

There's a bit more than that, as partnering with Marvel doesn't exactly add to Sony's franchise count. The sharp 22.5% drop off at the domestic BO from ASM to ASM2 made continuing the series too risky without outside help. The even sharper BO drop off from DOFP to XM:A will likely have similar repercussions for the FC series, though FOX will explore cheaper spin-offs and more Deadpool before getting the Mouse on the horn.

 

[Tymminator]

In that case, why don't they do that with Fantastic Four instead?

Honestly, we don't know if they haven't made a deal about that yet or not.

Marvel and Sony denied all Spider-man stuff until they were ready to release the info and the talks of Spidey-spin-offs were still being talked about through all that to even today.

But I think you have a point in that I believe they may work together on that first, if they decide to even work together at all. Then if both sides were happy with that venture, they could try X-men.

That said, it's all still conjecture on my part. F4 could very well be on Fox's slate to do next. I think personally that's a poor business decision, but they could be.

 

[Tymminator]

Actually, Sony had a release date for Sinister Six.
Fox just have release date holdings for a Fox-Marvel film for any of the films they were talking about doing.

I know.

 

[YoungBlood]

There's a bit more than that, as partnering with Marvel doesn't exactly add to Sony's franchise count. The sharp 22.5% drop off at the domestic BO from ASM to ASM2 made continuing the series too risky without outside help. The even sharper BO drop off from DOFP to XM:A will likely have similar repercussions for the FC series, though FOX will explore cheaper spin-offs and more Deadpool before getting the Mouse on the horn.

Well that's what you get when you forcefully try to create a cinematic universe with one character in order to compete with rival studios. That and also incompetent people working at Sony like Pascal.

 

[Tymminator]

I don't think X-Force is truly comparable to Sinister 6. Deadpool was huge and seen rightly as wildly successful. And, there's a big appetite for X-Force out there. There's a lot more energy and excitement about X-Force. Plus, we know for sure that Deadpool 2 is coming. If it does really well, then it does not make much sense for Fox to hold off X-Force and team with Marvel because Apocalypse underperformed.

The only thing we all can do is simply wait and see. Either it happens or it won't and either way it will never be the end of the world.

 

[Zarex]

That said, it's all still conjecture on my part. F4 could very well be on Fox's slate to do next. I think personally that's a poor business decision, but they could be.

Unless the Murdochs are willing to eat another eight figure loss in order to revive a three time loser franchise, the FF is D-U-N at FOX.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I don't know. What if they have an X-Force movie in development, it comes out, and grosses like 400M domestic/1B WW? And it draws on characters in their existing universe? It's clear that for MCU X-Men to work, they would have to be rebooted from scratch. Would Fox be on board for that if Deadpool makes a lot of money and includes characters from their X-Men movie license?

I don't really think a reboot is "completely" necissary..

Deadpool kinda fits currently in its own pocket dimension... there's litterally no ties to what universe it actually fits in outside of using the same X-mansion. Colossus is the only character to appear in Deadpool that also exists in the Singer universe.. however.. he's completely different.

There's litterally nothing tying Deadpool to the Singer-verse currently... but one thing they did also use.. was a SHIELD hellicarrier.. which already gives it leeway into the MCU.

DP could easily be brought into the MCU... his appearances is non X-men team ups would tone him down, but give FOX full control over his solo films and X-men only team-ups.

Hell i just saw yet again news on the theory that Sony may be considering bringing Garfield back for "VENOM" which is not suppose to take place in the MCU... and would be sort of like a "what if" comic. Similarly.. there's been multiple reports of Wesley Snipes meeting with Marvel about Blade.. he's even confirmed the meetings and that they "went well" weather that happens or not we won't know until it actually does.. but it does show the ideas are on the table.

I could easily seeing the new people introduced in apocalypse returning.. it's possible. you never know

 

[superweirdo87]

the Amazing Spider-Man 2 and X-men Apocalypse turned about the same amount of profit when all was said and done.. at least i don't believe there was a huge difference. Amz 2 did actually make money and didn't do horrible at the box office... but it was a "critical" failure.. it was panned by critics.. and sony dropped the ball... (in all honesty it was kinda like Fox's X3, which at the time was also the highest grossing X-men film, but it was a bad film)

Sony didn't really "need" to have spidey join the MCU... but they wanted to as they figured it could revive the property as well as bring in more income.

It was the lowest grossing Spider-Man movie worldwide and domestic. Sony was not just pursuing an option to boost profits off of one of their properties. They had a whole slate centered around Spider-Man.

http://www.vulture.com/2015/02/sony-hack-wasnt-the-only-thing-to-hurt-pascal.html

"Sony's dramatic underperformance that year prompted billionaire Daniel Loeb — who has used his Third Point hedge fund to become a major investor at the studio — to repeatedly take Pascal and her co-chief Michael Lynton to task in the press, blasting the studio heads for their inability to produce new blockbuster franchises in a moviemaking climate that is now dominated by them."

http://variety.com/2014/film/news/a...lease-more-release-more-tentpoles-1201118909/

"In 2013, the studio had a feeble year at the box office, with disappointments including “After Earth” and “White House Down,” and posted an operating loss of $181 million for the fiscal second quarter on Oct. 31 according to the studio’s consolidated financial reports.

That said, Sony has done very well by the “Spider-Man” franchise. Its 2012 reboot, “The Amazing Spider-Man,” starring Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone, grossed $752 million worldwide, and the movie series is by far the studio’s most profitable. (Sony Pictures continues to share in the riches of the ongoing James Bond films, but that property is controlled by MGM, so the profit pool is far smaller.)


Meanwhile, SPE co-chairman Amy Pascal is spinning Spider-Man’s web ever larger, taking a page from Marvel Entertainment’s superhero movie playbook. “We are expanding the ‘Spider-Man’ universe into ‘The Sinister Six’ and ‘Venom,’ so that we have ‘Spider-Man’ movies every year,” Pascal says."


Fox can jump off of Deadpool to get movies that can bring in healthy profits every couple of years and they have other franchises, too. Apes, Prometheus, Avatar, etc.

 

[psylockolussus]

With X-Men Apocalypse underperforming at the box-office then getting mixed reaction from critics and viewers alike. Fox is not gonna touch Fantastic Four anytime soon. They have another thing to fix or salvage and that is the X-Men. Deadpool is doing fine, Wolverine is ending soon, Gambit is uncertain right now, they need to like come up with a long term plan how to keep X-Men in everybody's radar and doing another Fantastic Four movie would just not benefit the X-Men at all.

 

[Smilodon]

I don't think Deadpool is going to be untouched from the other films for very long though. But I mean, the FC happens in the past so it's not like it's hard to course correct to make sure things just end up looking like what Deadpool/Wolverine (esp with all the X-23 rumors) end up doing in the films, which is what they're doing. That's basically what they do with the contrived decade jumps anyways.

The Helicarrier isn't also an actual Helicarrier. It's a tongue in cheek joke as Miller said iirc, but not an actual one. Like the Feige namedrop. Just a joke. Obviously it can be retconned if they ever wanted to, but I don't think they will with X-Force on the horizon.

 

[superweirdo87]

There's a bit more than that, as partnering with Marvel doesn't exactly add to Sony's franchise count. The sharp 22.5% drop off at the domestic BO from ASM to ASM2 made continuing the series too risky without outside help. The even sharper BO drop off from DOFP to XM:A will likely have similar repercussions for the FC series, though FOX will explore cheaper spin-offs and more Deadpool before getting the Mouse on the horn.

Partnering with Marvel does not add to their franchise count, but it does keep a critical performer with said count in strong shape. It gives them a desirable numbers at the top of their earnings report. I do think that (unfortunately) Fox will discontinue the FC series and reboot. But, unlike Sony, Fox has other franchises, so having X-Men in killer shape is not as critical.

A lot of people also noted that TASM2 was the lowest grossing Spider-Man movie, and the franchise was on a clear downward trajectory. X-Men Apocalypse was a disappointment. But, number three for the series worldwide including Deadpool.

 

[Havok83]

With X-Men Apocalypse underperforming at the box-office then getting mixed reaction from critics and viewers alike. Fox is not gonna touch Fantastic Four anytime soon. They have another thing to fix or salvage and that is the X-Men. Deadpool is doing fine, Wolverine is ending soon, Gambit is uncertain right now, they need to like come up with a long term plan how to keep X-Men in everybody's radar and doing another Fantastic Four movie would just not benefit the X-Men at all.

If they dont do something with FF, they will lose the rights to the movie license. They already have 4 X-men based films in the pipeline, so they dont really need to worry about rushing to start working on another X-men film. They have some time but they better be thinking of where to go with the FF next