Apocalypse X-Men Apocalypse News and Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 41

[def28]

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[kevork89]

Marvelrobbins, you are fighting for what you believe in and love and I respect that. But damn, you are in denial.

Two things I think you should accept:
-The X-Men franchise is dying
-an MCU X-Men doesn't guarantee a child friendly comedy like you suggest. Something within the tones of Civil War and DD (BOTH MCU PROPERTIES!!!) is possible

You really are reaching. How exactly is the X-Men franchise dying? Apocalypse is the second highest earning X-Men film. There's all these plans for future with new mutants and Deadpool. The franchise isn't even close to dying. I don't understand this logic. The movie underperformed yes but it didn't bomb.

 

[YoungBlood]

You really are reaching. How exactly is the X-Men franchise dying? Apocalypse is the second highest earning X-Men film. There's all these plans for future with new mutants and Deadpool. The franchise isn't even close to dying. I don't understand this logic. The movie underperformed yes but it didn't bomb.

He gotta sell "doom and gloom", he's always reaching with his flimsy biased arguments.

 

[def28]

Wait those world wide numbers are comparable to X2 and X3's international given the time?

If the market was like it was back then this would have been an extreme huge hit worldwide for the series. It's not though. 75% of this board thought the box office was gonna be at least 700m ww for this go around. 500m wasn't even an option.

Fox knows they are in trouble with the main IP losing interest, as do most X-Men fans. It ain't dead, but causes worry for the next film because these numbers should be higher.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Lol ya everything is just fine and dandy with the X-Men franchise

Diminishing returns and being forever destined to remain the least successful superhero universe? Ya that's meaningless!!

 

[kevork89]

Wait those world wide numbers are comparable to X2 and X3's international given the time?

If the market was like it was back then this would have been an extreme huge hit worldwide for the series. It's not though. 75% of this board thought the box office was gonna be at least 700m ww for this go around. 500m wasn't even an option.

Fox knows they are in trouble with the main IP losing interest, as do most X-Men fans. It ain't dead, but causes worry for the next film because these numbers should be higher.

Yes it definitely should be higher but that's the thing it underperformed but for t to be a bomb it would've had to make a lot less then it did. It isn't a massive success and it isn't a major failure. Like you said it's definitely not dead but Fox need to fix the issues. But Deadpool, New Mutants, Wolverine, X-Force possible Gambit plus more X-Men films doesn't sound like a dying franchise to me.

Lol ya everything is just fine and dandy with the X-Men franchise

Diminishing returns and being forever destined to remain the least successful superhero universe? Ya that's meaningless!!

Sorry are you from Fox or something? Does the numbers affect you personally? No one said anything about those issues being meaningless. You just need to learn the definition of the word dying and how that words has no context in the case of the X-Men film universe. It's just funny that after DoFP and Deadpool everyone is like the Fox universe is coming and Apocalypse doesn't perform as well and then suddenly the franchise is dying. Goes to shows the logic of people when it comes to X-Men. One misstep and it's over end it now give it back to Marvel.

 

[def28]

Yes it definitely should be higher but that's the thing it underperformed but for t to be a bomb it would've had to make a lot less then it did. It isn't a massive success and it isn't a major failure. Like you said it's definitely not dead but Fox need to fix the issues. But Deadpool, New Mutants, Wolverine, X-Force possible Gambit plus more X-Men films doesn't sound like a dying franchise to me.

Oh I agree with that. Right now they could just make Wolverine 3, Deadpool 2 and X-Force within the next 3 years and the franchise would probably make more then it ever has. But the main franchise itself is gonna take time now (unless they shoot for an omega time traveling crossover next) to bring back cause it is falling and the next film could very well bomb if they don't make sure it's up to quality with FC and DOFP.

The X-Men name has tended to rollercoaster up and down within the past 10 years in terms of quality and that has imo made domestic audiences alot more wary of the franchise. Along with the slew of other superhero films X-Men has competition with, it's a tough market to keep these seeming fresh. The franchise can't afford to have another drop like this if everyone wants this cast they just introduced to stay for a few more, which the majority of us all do from what I take.

With box office X-Men should be at least hitting X2 and DOFP range domestically especially with the addition to 3D nowadays. With International at least 450m with IMAX, the change of the market and 3D. Given all that was in this film like an A list roster of classic characters, hyped villain since the series started, critically acclaimed previous film etc it somehow is having a difficult time grabbing X-Men 1's numbers from 2000 unadjusted. This still hasn't hit even First Class Adjusted numbers. I personally did not expect this heavy of a drop even with mixed reviews.

 

[JEM]

Damn, it's getting ugly here .
You know what ? Matt Key talk abaut his rumor again and about internet news ... 39:00
[YT]watch?v=LPslSX4BVTw[/YT]

So much war here for this.

 

[kevork89]

Oh I agree with that. Right now they could just make Wolverine 3, Deadpool 2 and X-Force within the next 3 years and the franchise would probably make more then it ever has. But the main franchise itself is gonna take time now (unless they shoot for an omega time traveling crossover next) to bring back cause it is falling and the next film could very well bomb if they don't make sure it's up to quality with FC and DOFP.

The X-Men name has tended to rollercoaster up and down within the past 10 years in terms of quality and that has imo made domestic audiences alot more wary of the franchise. Along with the slew of other superhero films X-Men has competition with, it's a tough market to keep these seeming fresh. The franchise can't afford to have another drop like this if everyone wants this cast they just introduced to stay for a few more, which the majority of us all do from what I take.

With box office X-Men should be at least hitting X2 and DOFP range domestically especially with the addition to 3D nowadays. With International at least 450m with IMAX, the change of the market and 3D. Given all that was in this film like an A list roster of classic characters, hyped villain since the series started, critically acclaimed previous film etc it somehow is having a difficult time grabbing X-Men 1's numbers from 2000 unadjusted. This still hasn't hit even First Class Adjusted numbers. I personally did not expect this heavy of a drop even with mixed reviews.

Very much agreed. Fox can do it. They just need to do something new and fresh. Hello Deadpool!!! They already did it and succeeded.

 

[magneto23]

Two things I think you should accept:
-The X-Men franchise is dying

If the sequel to Apocalypse under-performs and doesn't increase the level of quality THEN we can start saying this. We have to see if a trend is happening. Apocalypse wasn't a bomb and it wasn't a terrible movie. Its a moot discussion right now IMO. wait 3-4 years.

 

[JEM]

Like Meredith said in the video, internet overacting with everything. I think we could see the younger cast again. The great thing with a shared universe is you can use characters whatever you want. After New Mutant, Deadpool 2, X Force, i can see All New X Men with younger cast in present or a simple X Men movie in past.

But Fox has a lot of possibility, it 's why X-Men universe (not franchise ) is far for dead.

 

[Endeavor]

Who in the hell has said only fox can do it right?

robbins for one, who said that if the creative team changes to something like what happened with Spidey he won't be seeing the movies, buying the DVDs or even the comics.

 

[YoungBlood]

Damn, it's getting ugly here .
You know what ? Matt Key talk abaut his rumor again and about internet news ... 39:00
[YT]watch?v=LPslSX4BVTw[/YT]

So much war here for this.

"Take it with a grain of salt", at least Key is honest that he may be wrong.
You'll never see Faraci or comic book movies do something like that because they need the clicks for their crap, but that's today's journalism for you.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Who in the hell has said only fox can do it right? If anything I've only heard that from people who desperately want it back at marvel as if marvel craps bricks of gold.

the assumption goes both ways tbh.

there's people who've inferred both.. and people who've reacted as if the opposite side is saying only that...

infact no one as well on the marvel side has really said everything they touch is gold either... just that they have a better track record and would have a better understanding of their own material (which all is true)

now does that mean you'd like the look/feel would remain the same? no.. and some want it and some don't.

fact of the matter is change will be coming one way or another.. be it at marvel or Fox's method of how they do these films... change is going to be coming no matter what to this franchise.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Yes it definitely should be higher but that's the thing it underperformed but for t to be a bomb it would've had to make a lot less then it did. It isn't a massive success and it isn't a major failure. Like you said it's definitely not dead but Fox need to fix the issues. But Deadpool, New Mutants, Wolverine, X-Force possible Gambit plus more X-Men films doesn't sound like a dying franchise to me.


Sorry are you from Fox or something? Does the numbers affect you personally? No one said anything about those issues being meaningless. You just need to learn the definition of the word dying and how that words has no context in the case of the X-Men film universe. It's just funny that after DoFP and Deadpool everyone is like the Fox universe is coming and Apocalypse doesn't perform as well and then suddenly the franchise is dying. Goes to shows the logic of people when it comes to X-Men. One misstep and it's over end it now give it back to Marvel.

no one is saying it bombed.. hell Amazing Spider-Man 2 didn't bomb... but this film has done mediocre at best. there's really no denying that.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Very much agreed. Fox can do it. They just need to do something new and fresh. Hello Deadpool!!! They already did it and succeeded.

Oh I agree with that. Right now they could just make Wolverine 3, Deadpool 2 and X-Force within the next 3 years and the franchise would probably make more then it ever has. But the main franchise itself is gonna take time now (unless they shoot for an omega time traveling crossover next) to bring back cause it is falling and the next film could very well bomb if they don't make sure it's up to quality with FC and DOFP.

The X-Men name has tended to rollercoaster up and down within the past 10 years in terms of quality and that has imo made domestic audiences alot more wary of the franchise. Along with the slew of other superhero films X-Men has competition with, it's a tough market to keep these seeming fresh. The franchise can't afford to have another drop like this if everyone wants this cast they just introduced to stay for a few more, which the majority of us all do from what I take.

With box office X-Men should be at least hitting X2 and DOFP range domestically especially with the addition to 3D nowadays. With International at least 450m with IMAX, the change of the market and 3D. Given all that was in this film like an A list roster of classic characters, hyped villain since the series started, critically acclaimed previous film etc it somehow is having a difficult time grabbing X-Men 1's numbers from 2000 unadjusted. This still hasn't hit even First Class Adjusted numbers. I personally did not expect this heavy of a drop even with mixed reviews.

this is why, if a deal is made i think the only portion of the X-men franchise that would be given the full on "spider-man" treatment is probably just the X-men team films themselves. while the solos and grittier stuff remains out of the main stream portion of the MCU. FOX and Marvel may work together on those films just to keep continuity.. and some creative input.. but Disney/Marvel wont want to promote R rated MCU films.

it's really not that hard to imagine.

 

[YoungBlood]

no one is saying it bombed.. hell Amazing Spider-Man 2 didn't bomb... but this film has done mediocre at best. there's really no denying that.

No we're not going to deny that because it did perform mediocre (but not bombed), but we're also not going around firing "doom and gloom" or "sharing the rights" or "reboot" or "believing rumors as facts" or "the franchise is dead/stale" like some have been doing on this forum.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

No we're not going to deny that because it did perform mediocre (but not bombed), but we're also not going around firing "doom and gloom" or "sharing the rights" or "reboot" or "believing rumors as facts" or "the franchise is dead/stale" like some have been doing on this forum.

no you're going to be in denial because you don't want a franchise you love changing even though the fanbase has been slowly jumping off a sinking ship...

which i get.. it sucks. but they arn't going to cater a franchise to a fanbase where only a small amount are still interested.

I wouldn't necessarily say we are talking "doom and gloom" just discussing what a calibration would be like.. and finding the potential exciting. The only big "doom and gloom" negativity in here are those like Marvelrobbins who immediately sees a rumored possible calibration as something negative and awful... i mean seriously.. he's acting like "because a rumor and a theorized discussion" chicken little and the sky is falling.. if you want "doom and gloom" that's it right there.

 

[Flint Marko]

This is Fox's second movie in a year to disappoint (FFINO being quite a bit more than a disappointment) so naturally people are going to be unsatisfied with yet another misstep from them - they arguably have the worst track record of any studio when it comes to CBM's, and they're still as inconsistent as they've ever been.

 

[superweirdo87]

I would welcome a new creative team for X-Men to make a sequel with this cast that takes place a couple of years after Apocalypse. Less enthusiastic about a reboot with Fox or within the MCU.

I don't know about whether there will be that much change because Kinberg's contract is solid and the way he talked it seemed like he is not going anywhere. Fox also intended to make Fantastic Four for a while even when it outright bombed and got such bad reviews.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I'd much prefer X-men at Marvel over this cast being in a 90s sequel 10 years later.... with no aging done yet again to the entire cast...

that may work in comics, but not film. Especially when the decades jump much more faster than they do in the books.

Singer is great at drama.. and usually good at cinematography but he and fox just keep making the same mistakes over and over again and basically make me feel like they think the audience is stupid, doesn't notice, or doesn't care.. and that's clearly not the case.

 

[2kt09]

This is Fox's second movie in a year to disappoint (FFINO being quite a bit more than a disappointment) so naturally people are going to be unsatisfied with yet another misstep from them - they arguably have the worst track record of any studio when it comes to CBM's, and they're still as inconsistent as they've ever been.

Actually, in the past 5 years, Apocalypse is disappointing in that grander scheme of things because Fox's cbm output has been on an upward swing, especially in the aftermath of Rothman's departure. Starting with First Class all the way to Kingsman.
And then F4 happened. But then, Deadpool came out and people figured the X-Men side no matter how loose of a connection was still the most reliable.
Apocalypse has the critics split, most audiences are fine with it, and most fans claiming weakest First Class entry, but still better than the movies def28 listed.

 

[superweirdo87]

I'd much prefer X-men at Marvel over this cast being in a 90s sequel 10 years later.... with no aging done yet again to the entire cast...

I want another movie with this cast, but I would rather they reconsider the decade jumps and just set it a couple of years after Apocalypse.

I have my doubts about Marvel because Disney doesn't do R Marvel movies, and Deadpool and X-Force would work best as R and the latter depends on characters under the X-Men license. You raised the possibility of Marvel doing X-Men team films and Fox doing everything else. But, if the X-Men are in the same universe or timeline as the Fox properties with Deadpool and X-Force, that could create complications. Marvel would have to avoid inconsistency with the Fox pictures.

The way Marvel does things plots, narrative threads, and incidents work together in a tight way and have consequences for the picture down the road. So, with Deadpool, Cable, and X-Force at Fox, total creative control would not be there. And things might not flow as neat or as tightly.

There is also the issue that mutants don't exist in the MCU.

https://***********/robertliefeld/status/729038875281137664

 

[GuestStar2004]

I still think the RT for this movie is much more lower then i should be, it defo feels more like at the very least late 50 to 60

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I want another movie with this cast, but I would rather they reconsider the decade jumps and just set it a couple of years after Apocalypse.

I have my doubts about Marvel because Disney doesn't do R Marvel movies, and Deadpool and X-Force would work best as R and the latter depends on characters under the X-Men license. You raised the possibility of Marvel doing X-Men team films and Fox doing everything else. But, if the X-Men are in the same universe or timeline as the Fox properties with Deadpool and X-Force, that could create complications. Marvel would have to avoid inconsistency with the Fox pictures.

The way Marvel does things plots, narrative threads, and incidents work together in a tight way and have consequences for the picture down the road. So, with Deadpool, Cable, and X-Force at Fox, total creative control would not be there. And things might not flow as neat or as tightly.

There is also the issue that mutants don't exist in the MCU.

https://***********/robertliefeld/status/729038875281137664

Well as i said before, Venom and Silver Sable are both still wanting to be pushed forward via Sony and not part of the MCU (which i think is a mistake) but shows that a studio can still retain aspects of a property apart from the MCU.

The Beauty of Deadpool is that it basically existed in its own pocket universe... where other than the X-mansion everything was new.. even colossus.. and nothing tied it into the Singer-verse at all. It even had a MCU SHIELD hellicarrier in it... it was very vague as to what world it existed in...

and truthfully that's a great way to handle the spin-off properties... I think the rule of thumb would likely be "The X-characters can cross over into other X-films and they can also pop up in the Disney owned films... but the Disney characters (unless brief cameo) can not cross over into the FOX X-men films...

this keeps Cap, Tony and Spider-Man out of marketing for films with blood, gore and language.. and yet keeps the crossover potential still there.

The standard X-team films of Xavier's X-men never needs to be anything more than PG-13... so if deadpool or wolverine join a film.. its not like those characters are going to be mutilating people. So in a sense they would be toned down.. and by tone downed.. i mean more "just don't show/hear it" just like wolverine has basically always been handled.

Characters like Fury and Cap could make brief cameos in a wolverine film or something.. but the film would not be marketed with them in it.. this keeps disney's image and also helps with the shared universe. We just don't need cap fighting side-by side in a Wolverine film as logan removes limbs.

But this is pretty standard.. some films will be rated PG-13 some R, etc... as long as Disney feels comfortable with the fact an angry mom isn't going to attack them because they saw spider-man being marketed in an R rated film.. they will be completely fine. Disney's pretty good at trying to protect their image as well as protecting the characters they own and what they represent.

as for mutants not existing... well.. "not yet" they'd obviously be introduced if the X-men were able to cross over