Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

[The Endless]

Deadpool is X-Men.

No he's not. Deadpool is so successful and popular partly because he ****s all over the X-Men. You cannot attribute the X-Men franchise to Deadpool in any real way.

There's a reason the first film outgrossed all other X films even with an R and no China.

 

[Erik Lensherr]

No he's not. Deadpool is so successful and popular partly because he ****s all over the X-Men. You cannot attribute the X-Men franchise to Deadpool in any real way.

There's a reason the first film outgrossed all other X films even with an R and no China.

Deadpool is X-Men.

 

[Link]

Deadpool 1 and 2 are X-Men films. No doubt about it. We'll just have to disagree, for some peculiar reason.

And yes, Deadpool was a success even with studio interference. That's how it sometimes happens, even with bigger fish. It's not the 1940's, studio allegiance does very little. If people caught up with that, it would be a lot more fun talking about these films.

 

[The Endless]

I have no allegiance to any studio. I just call it like I see it.

Fox did everything in their power to not make Deadpool. Then even when it finally got greenlit, they still tried to sabotage it.

Then it becomes a huge success and you want me to give credit to Fox? Lol no chance.

As for Deadpool being a X-Men film? No it really isn't. It is the exact opposite of an X-Men film, in terms of style and tone and attitude towards the source material. And it was hugely successful because it isn't an X-Men film. The X-Men in their current form are old hat, and Deadpools success cannot be attributed to the X films.

 

[Link]

And Logan is very different as well, they still share a franchise. Sincerely speaking, Deadpool 2

Spoiler

ends this conversation entirely, for several reasons.

. Kinberg and Donner produce the Deadpool films because they operate under the X-Men umbrella.

 

[X-Maniac]

Inserting any mainline X-Men cameos/appearances into the Deadpool series is only going to ensure that Deadpool gets totally rebooted after the takeover by Disney. Bye bye Ryan.

The less connected Deadpool films are to X-Men, the more likely Reynolds' version is likely to survive a studio takeover.

Disney is not going to continue with a series that has members of the First Class X-Men cast appearing in it.

It's also very unlikely X Force gets made by Fox, which is possibly why Deadpool 2 already feels like X Force

 

[Erik Lensherr]

I have no allegiance to any studio. I just call it like I see it.

Fox did everything in their power to not make Deadpool. Then even when it finally got greenlit, they still tried to sabotage it.

Then it becomes a huge success and you want me to give credit to Fox? Lol no chance.

As for Deadpool being a X-Men film? No it really isn't. It is the exact opposite of an X-Men film, in terms of style and tone and attitude towards the source material. And it was hugely successful because it isn't an X-Men film. The X-Men in their current form are old hat, and Deadpools success cannot be attributed to the X films.

Spoiler

Deadpool 2 has cameos from Quicksilver, Professor X, Beast, Jean Grey.

 

[Erik Lensherr]

Inserting any mainline X-Men cameos/appearances into the Deadpool series is only going to ensure that Deadpool gets totally rebooted after the takeover by Disney. Bye bye Ryan.

The less connected Deadpool films are to X-Men, the more likely Reynolds' version is likely to survive a studio takeover.

Disney is not going to continue with a series that has members of the First Class X-Men cast appearing in it.

The Incredible Hulk and William Hurt?

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Inserting any mainline X-Men cameos/appearances into the Deadpool series is only going to ensure that Deadpool gets totally rebooted after the takeover by Disney. Bye bye Ryan.

The less connected Deadpool films are to X-Men, the more likely Reynolds' version is likely to survive a studio takeover.

Disney is not going to continue with a series that has members of the First Class X-Men cast appearing in it.

It's also very unlikely X Force gets made by Fox, which is possibly why Deadpool 2 already feels like X Force

you are completely lost if you think they're going to recast Deadpool when the disney deal happens. Not a chance.

The character is pretty flexible when it comes to the stuff you mentioned. The canon and characters around deadpool can change at anytime to fit the need of the universe he's in.

 

[Link]

Deadpool could appear in just about any film and people wouldn't question it. That's the magic of the character.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Thing with deadpool is that you can't have him magically appear anywhere without logical sense as it just asks why take him seriously whenever the films expect you too if he can break any 4th wall rules whenever he wants.

To a certain degree you have to take him and his world seriously.

Its like someone dying and deadpool rewinding the movie with his 4th wall breaking powers just because he can... although might be going abit far.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I have no allegiance to any studio. I just call it like I see it.

Fox did everything in their power to not make Deadpool. Then even when it finally got greenlit, they still tried to sabotage it.

Then it becomes a huge success and you want me to give credit to Fox? Lol no chance.

Yeah but you know what? we wouldn't have got it at all under Disney, you know that right? yeah fox were reluctant but when we did get it they allowed Ryan and Co to do what they wanted and because of that we got the film we got.

You can look at FOX and say they don't deserve it but they are the only reason we probably got it.

As for Deadpool being a X-Men film? No it really isn't. It is the exact opposite of an X-Men film, in terms of style and tone and attitude towards the source material. And it was hugely successful because it isn't an X-Men film. The X-Men in their current form are old hat, and Deadpools success cannot be attributed to the X films.

Same could be argued with Logan. it was successful because it wasn't an X-Men movie.

But then isn't that the stance they are going with for these movies? tone changes for each film or individual spin-off? perhaps some lose continuity comes with that but in terms of how Deadpool doesn't fit in that universe... thats totally not true.

Deadpool is very much part of the X-VERSE and they ain't trying all that well to hide it.

HEY DEADPOOL IF YOU ARE TRYING TO HIDE YOU ARE FROM THE FOXVERSE GET OUT OF THAT DAMN WHEEL CHAIR AND STAY AWAY FROM THE DAMN MANSION ALREADY! YOU AIN'T HELPING ANYTHING BY KEEP VISITING THE PLACE AND DANCING AROUND THE X-MEN SET!

 

[def28]

Deadpool could appear in just about any film and people wouldn't question it. That's the magic of the character.

Pretty much.

They'll keep him unless Ryan wants to leave. The backlash would be too severe and have negative impact if Reynolds left. Anyone at any studio can look at the numbers, marketing, social presence and merch and realize it would be a bad move to replace Ryan. Reynolds is Deadpool as much as Deadpool is Reynolds now

 

[DACrowe]

No he's not. Deadpool is so successful and popular partly because he ****s all over the X-Men. You cannot attribute the X-Men franchise to Deadpool in any real way.

There's a reason the first film outgrossed all other X films even with an R and no China.

You do realize though Colossus is an X-Man? Technically, depending on the comics, so is Cable. We also know they spend more time in the X-Mansion in the sequel and introduce new X-Men like Yukio and Shatterstar.

I mean, you can prefer Deadpool to all other X-films (I certainly wouldn't say it is among the top 3 mutant related movies, but I see why you'd prefer DP), and you can point out it is more popular than Singer's movies. All of that is true. But it is an X-Men movie, and by all reports, Deapdool 2 is embracing that more.

 

[def28]

I don't think Endless is literally arguing if Deadpool is a part of the X-Men universe. He obviously comes from that brand since his intro in New Mutants and X-Force. He's more so arguing the connection to the films. Colossus in Deadpool and the X-Men films are completely different characters for example and the featured X-Men like NTW, Cable, Domino etc don't feature in the X-Men films.

The X-Men film franchise didn't add to it's success in any sort of way other then casting Reynolds in XMOW.

 

[DACrowe]

I have no allegiance to any studio. I just call it like I see it.

Fox did everything in their power to not make Deadpool. Then even when it finally got greenlit, they still tried to sabotage it.

Then it becomes a huge success and you want me to give credit to Fox? Lol no chance.

As for Deadpool being a X-Men film? No it really isn't. It is the exact opposite of an X-Men film, in terms of style and tone and attitude towards the source material. And it was hugely successful because it isn't an X-Men film. The X-Men in their current form are old hat, and Deadpools success cannot be attributed to the X films.

If that was true, there would be no Deadpool movie. Like you really think Ryan Reynolds used social media reactions like a gun to studio executives' heads, forcing them to sign over $55 million?

They made it. Slowly, too cautiously, but they made it. There was no secret conspiracy out to get the movie. They just didn't believe in it, and then they did. If they never wanted to make it, it wouldn't exist.

 

[def28]

If that was true, there would be no Deadpool movie. Like you really think Ryan Reynolds used social media reactions like a gun to studio executives' heads, forcing them to sign over $55 million?

There almost wasn't. Fox didn't know, or really believe in it even after the leak. They still hacked the budget to something like a quarter of DOFP's. It took a lot of convincing to get it made.

But ultimately yeah, good on them for finally listening and letting the team make the movie they wanted to. Things fell in place eventually, the right creatives were behind it and that's all that matters.

 

[DACrowe]

And i rememebr many of you criticize x-men saga for the little amount of characters' time screen.

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls066620113/

Tony has more time on Homecoming than Cap in Infinity War.

Good.

and a part of X3, Cyclops had more screen than IW's Cap.

Ha, that is an amusing point. I didn't think of the correlation, but yeah, Tony, Spidey, and Strange are well represented, as are the Guardians and Thor, but everyone else is pretty "peripheral" in it. Including OG heroes like Cap, Black Widow, Hulk, and the completely absent Hawkeye.

To be fair, Marvel can get away with that because (minus Hawkeye) these characters have shined in previous movies. The other reason though is fans have a weird brand loyalty to Marvel, and will not acknowledge this flaw in IW until at least a year or two has passed and we have another Avengers movie.

There almost wasn't. Fox didn't know, or really believe in it even after the leak. They still hacked the budget to something like a quarter of DOFP's. It took a lot of convincing to get it made.

But ultimately yeah, good on them for finally listening and letting the team make the movie they wanted to. Things fell in place eventually, the right creatives were behind it and that's all that matters.

All very true, although I don't think anyone expected a $750 million grosser from DP. $55 million sounds right, and I appreciated it being "smaller." I know Reynolds has said he'd actually like to make Deadpool 3 (assuming he gets the chance) even indie-scale and do "weird" stuff with it, which to me sounds fascinating.

In any case, yeah, Fox dragged their feet, but they made it. And given Disney nor WB have made a superhero movie like Deadpool, I'll just go ahead and say that it probably wouldn't have gotten made in that fashion anywhere else.

 

[def28]

That's seriously like the worst point one could make in defense. And it partially disturbs me some can't see the difference between Cyclops development in the X-Men franchise as a whole and Captain Americas in 6 films.

IW pt 1 was not a Cap story, would not from it benefit and Cap already had tons of screen time in other films. Ultimately call bs when pt 2 comes out in this story. There are so many hero's there that the job of making it work alone was insane.

If the X-Men franchise developed it's characters at all we would not even have these arguments. Do some of you seriously not want X-Men members to be developed Or just think it's fine to leave them out?

 

[Lip]

That's seriously like the worst point one could make in defense. And it partially disturbs me some can't see the difference between Cyclops development in the X-Men franchise as a whole and Captain Americas in 6 films.

IW pt 1 was not a Cap story and would not benefit. Call bs when pt 2 comes out.

If the X-Men franchise developed it's characters we would not even have these arguments.

I was very impressed by how IW managed that huge amount of characters. And I loved seeing some of them, especially Cap, taking the back seat. The X-Men movies can't barely handle 10 characters.

 

[def28]

I was very impressed by how IW managed that huge amount of characters. And I loved seeing some of them, especially Cap, taking the back seat. The X-Men movies can't barely handle 10 characters.

Agreed. Oh no, they gave lines to Vision and Wanda instead.

Balancing and giving dialogue/character as an ensemble (not just 3 characters) is what we have been debating for all these years, and the movie actually did it. I Loved that Thor, Wanda, Gamora and Vision actually got lines over the more obvious Cap and Nat. It's not like they won't be featured later. They needed to balance this over two films in order to make it work. Otherwise it's too much and everyone will just be decorations...like another franchise.

 

[DACrowe]

That's seriously like the worst point one could make in defense. And it partially disturbs me some can't see the difference between Cyclops development in the X-Men franchise as a whole and Captain Americas in 6 films.

I acknowledged they've all been allowed to shine elsewhere (minus Hawkeye). Cap got a trilogy (or 3/4 of one as CW I consider mostly an Avengers movie), and Black Widow had a major role in two of the Cap movies and TA, etc. etc.

I was just also noting that it is true... IW is guilty of what many damn the X-films for. It's less a critique than an observation that I found amusing. I am well aware that most of the Avengers have much better development and audience-friendly moments than all of the non-Wolverine and non-Xavier mutants.

IW pt 1 was not a Cap story, would not from it benefit and Cap already had tons of screen time in other films. Ultimately call bs when pt 2 comes out in this story. There are so many hero's there that the job of making it work alone was insane.

Just a side tangent, I actually really hate when movies do "Part 1s." They always feel incomplete. It's probably why I'm cooler on IW than a lot around here.

P.S. No one cares about Vision and Wanda.

 

[Lip]

Agreed. Oh no, they gave lines to Vision and Wanda instead.

I was very surprised by that. I didn't expect characters like Wanda to get that importance. And didn't expect characters like Mantis to have lines at all. I was very pleased when I watched.

I still think that there are characters who needs more development like Falcon, Wanda and Vision for instance. But man, they did a hell of a job.

But god forbid if we say Marvel did a good job (again).

 

[def28]

It's more about people who are just angry at X-Men being called out for their failures. One of these days someone will get it right.

I acknowledged they've all been allowed to shine elsewhere (minus Hawkeye). Cap got a trilogy (or 3/4 of one as CW I consider mostly an Avengers movie), and Black Widow had a major role in two of the Cap movies and TA, etc. etc.

I was just also noting that it is true... IW is guilty of what many damn the X-films for. It's less a critique than an observation that I found amusing. I am well aware that most of the Avengers have much better development and audience-friendly moments than all of the non-Wolverine and non-Xavier mutants.

It's not in any way. When Rogue, Cyclops, Emma, Gambit, Psylocke, Storm, Kitty, Iceman, Angel, Jubilee, Colossus...you know the actual X-Men, have even a third of their potential or screen time as the IW characters in an X-Men film then we can make that argument.

Let alone an actual good movie on the level of a team ensemble like IW and not XMA or X3. Laughing at fans cause Cap didn't get much screen time in IW and that somehow is the same as what the X-Men franchise does to almost all of it's characters is in no way comparable. If they gave Cyclops even two of the hero moments Cap had in IW in X3 we all would have been geeking out. Instead he cried and got killed off screen cause he was involved in another project.

 

[SumT]

Deadpool 1 and 2 are X-Men films.

You dont know who are the x-men then.

The X-men are Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm, Jean, Rogue, Beast and co.

Thats like saying the Guardians of the galaxy movies are Avengers movies