Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

[Cktopl33]

So....anyway.....on a separate note, according to x-menfilms.com on the tone of Dark Phoenix:

Dark Phoenix is definitely trying to stand out from other comic book movies. Cast members saying the tone is dramatic and different weren’t lying. Think #Logan style.

It'll be interesting to see how the trailer will showcase that.

It also tweeted this:

"Teamwork makes the dream work in the space shuttle sequence."

"I never leak spoilers; that’s not my style. Just wanted to give a few tiny nuggets that don’t actually reveal anything."

 

[Lip]

As a Writer:
xXx: State of the Union - 16%
Mr. & Mrs. Smith - 59%
X-Men: The Last Stand - 58%
Jumper - 16%
Sherlock Holmes - 70%
This Means War - 25%
Days of Future Past 90%
Fantastic Four - 9%
X-Men Apocalypse - 48%

As a producer:
Jumper - 16%
X-Men First Class - 86%
This Means War - 25%
Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter - 35%
Elysium - 67%
Days of Future Past - 90%
Let's Be Cops - 18%
Chappie - 32%
Cinderella - 84%
Fantastic Four - 9%
The Martian - 91%
Deadpool - 83%
X-Men Apocalypse - 48%
Logan - 93%
Murder On The Orient Express - 57%

Oh, also, his work as script doctor (cuz I love it):
Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle - 43%
Catwoman - 9%
Elektra - 10%
Fantastic Four - 27%
Night at the Museum: Battle of the Smithsonian - 44%
Date Night - 67%
Knight and Day - 52%
Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows - 59%
Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter - 35%
Edge of Tomorrow 90%
Ouija - 6%

But come on guys, let's just erase all of that from our minds. That doesn't mean anything at all. His previous work are zero indication of how he is as a writer and storyteller. It's quite obvious that his bad resume is just an accident and all of those bad movies are because of the (many) different directors that worked with him.

His resume has been simply an accident since 2007.

 

[Mad Ones]

I'll be very impressed and surprised if a main X-men film has the tone of Logan.

 

[GuestStar2004]

It'll be interesting to see how the trailer will showcase that.

It will probably be a slow dramatic trailer. but then most of the past trailers for The Wolverine, Logan, New Mutants and the X-Men films have been fairly dramatic ones.

Best guess is that if they just call it "Dark Phoenix" they will probably also want the trailer to reflect with something a little different too.

 

[psylockolussus]

I'll be very impressed and surprised if a main X-men film has the tone of Logan.

Which isn't even fitting for the X-Men. What's next a gritty approach to Gambit, the New Mutants.. Oh wait. That worked so well for Fantastic Four.

As a Writer:
xXx: State of the Union - 16%
Mr. & Mrs. Smith - 59%
X-Men: The Last Stand - 58%
Jumper - 16%
Sherlock Holmes - 70%
This Means War - 25%
Days of Future Past 90%
Fantastic Four - 9%
X-Men Apocalypse - 48%

As a producer:
Jumper - 16%
X-Men First Class - 86%
This Means War - 25%
Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter - 35%
Elysium - 67%
Days of Future Past - 90%
Let's Be Cops - 18%
Chappie - 32%
Cinderella - 84%
Fantastic Four - 9%
The Martian - 91%
Deadpool - 83%
X-Men Apocalypse - 48%
Logan - 93%
Murder On The Orient Express - 57%

Oh, also, his work as script doctor (cuz I love it):
Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle - 43%
Catwoman - 9%
Elektra - 10%
Fantastic Four - 27%
Night at the Museum: Battle of the Smithsonian - 44%
Date Night - 67%
Knight and Day - 52%
Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows - 59%
Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter - 35%
Edge of Tomorrow 90%
Ouija - 6%

But come on guys, let's just erase all of that from our minds. That doesn't mean anything at all. His previous work are zero indication of how he is as a writer and storyteller. It's quite obvious that his bad resume is just an accident and all of those bad movies are because of the (many) different directors that worked with him.

His resume has been simply an accident since 2007.

How do we supposed to erase all of that in our minds when you refreshed our memory about Kinberg's track record. What an impeccable talent.

 

[1627523]

Which isn't even fitting for the X-Men. What's next a gritty approach to Gambit, the New Mutants.. Oh wait. That worked so well for Fantastic Four.



How do we supposed to erase all of that in our minds when you refreshed our memory about Kinberg's track record. What an impeccable talent.

I'm confused. You don't want a Dark Phoenix film to be dark and dramatic. Do you want it to be light like Homecoming or Ragnarok? I'm curious as to what tone you think it should have. I always thought a Dark Phoenix movie should be well....Dark. I'm not trying to attack you or anything but I'm just curious.

 

[psylockolussus]

I'm confused. You don't want a Dark Phoenix film to be dark and dramatic. Do you want it to be light like Homecoming or Ragnarok? I'm curious as to what tone you think it should have. I always thought a Dark Phoenix movie should be well....Dark. I'm not trying to attack you or anything but I'm just curious.

It should have the same tone as Infinity War and Days of Future Past. Just because the title has the word "Dark" doesn't mean it should be dark and all gloomy. Star Wars had characters going to the dark side but those movies weren't eXactly dark. Also, it doesn't even have to be so light given the material that they are allegedly adapting. There has to be a perfect balance. Thing is people complain how unfun the X-Men ensembles are. Going full gritty on X-Men (which isn't even the case in the comics) wouldn't be right.

Also dramatic and dark aren't the same thing. Homecoming had drama but it wasn't dark.

 

[henzINNIT]

Kinberg's record as a writer is a complete nightmare. DOFP is the exception, not the rule.

Ragnorok also had a change in director and tone going by the logo change from early concepts. Same thing happened to BP as far as the aforementioned director changes.

Worst argument mate. Neither film changed directors. No-one was confirmed before Waititi or Coogler. The Thor logo changed because Marvel are so well prepared they were promoting the film before a director (and tone) was selected. I don't know how many wins Marvel need to have before we can drop this silly "bias" argument and give them credit for their success.

 

[psylockolussus]

So did Captain Marvel also change its tone since they changed the logo. I mean lol. Change of logo means change of tone, now? What?

Also, if Dark PhoeniX had a change of director, from Kinberg to someone else, like someone with a better track record. The early word of mouth to this wouldn't be so negative.

 

[1627523]

So did Captain Marvel also change its tone since they changed the logo. I mean lol. Change of logo means change of tone, now? What?

Also, if Dark PhoeniX had a change of director, from Kinberg to someone else, like someone with a better track record. The early word of mouth to this wouldn't be so negative.

What negative word of mouth? People at test screenings were positive. Even Slugzilla was positive about it. Are u talking about the delay?

 

[Davidstorm]

This debate about the quality of Simon in his works, and quite funny
why while some say he's too bad due to his resume, big studios like lucasfilm (disney) and etc, are hiring him to be director or writer of some of his upcoming releases.

 

[Cktopl33]

Actually....what rating a film has that he's worked on as a writer or producer is not an indication of what his directing will be. And sorry to have to repeat, but it's not until we see his debut as a director where he has full control over his own work and creative vision that we will see the outcome as a storyteller. Not as a co-writer or co-producer on films (who's roles are shared with other writers and producers). That's the honest way to say it. Whatever film review percentage each of those films has is because of the director, not Simon Kinberg. Unfortunately, Kinberg has worked with directors that made critically failed movies but also some critically successful movies. This will be his opportunity to show how good or bad a director he will be. I'll just leave this here:

So, I'm a produced screenwriter. I've also been fortunate enough to work on both sides of the table, so to speak. As a screenwriter and as a script reader in development.

I would love to say that the screenwriting credit will be the best indicator as far as how good a movie will be. But it just ain't true.

Directors are the magicians. They are the illusionists. They make things come true. Sure, they have help on all facets, but it is the director, and the director alone, that steers the ship, that churns the gears, that points in that chosen direction as the crew waits and says, "Onward we go."

The director is the storyteller. He/she's responsible for taking all the elements, including the script, and bringing them together to communicate a story to an audience. In a way there's really nothing the director is not responsible for and this is probably why film is often called a director's medium. To conclude, the question is who is MOST responsible for a great film, then the answer is that it is the director. Of course making a film is a team effort but the director is the captain of the ship and he/she is the one responsible for its failure or success.

Can a screenwriter retain control?

Beyond guaranteed rewrites, even the most powerful screenwriters have difficulty negotiating for control (or even rights of consultation) regarding additions or cuts from the script as it moves toward and through production. Once a script is greenlit for production, it's safe to say that the Director controls its content

There's your reason for a film's critical rating. I don't know how much clearer to make it. Track record doesn't always mean much. Singer had a good directing track record with the x-men movies and yet manage to the direct the worst critically rated in the main franchise with absolute terrible direction. Dark Phoenix will be Kinberg's first record directing.

 

[Drexelhand]

This debate about the quality of Simon in his works, and quite funny
why while some say he's too bad due to his resume, big studios like lucasfilm (disney) and etc, are hiring him to be director or writer of some of his upcoming releases.

Because as I've said, he's a great producer who gets **** done on time and under budget. Look at Apocalypse, he ended up rewriting that film into shooting to meet Fox's release date. I believe Dark Phoenix finished about $10 mill under budget, which is coincidentally how much reshoots will cost.

 

[Lip]

Simon Kinberg, as a screenwriter, is undeniably a storyteller. The director is the one who's going to translate the script into an audiovisual language, also as a storyteller, but a script is also a story. A screenwriter needs to understand about storytelling, about arcs, creating characters, character arcs, dialogues, plot points, structure of the story and several other things. And he has that nightmare as a resume. And he's going to translate his own script into a fully formed film.

But as I said: His resume means absolutely nothing. It's no indication of what and how he is as a storyteller. He just has nothing to do with any of those awful movies. Nothing at all.

 

[Cktopl33]

Simon Kinberg, as a screenwriter, is undeniably a storyteller. The director is the one who's going to translate the script into an audiovisual language, also as a storyteller, but a script is also a story. A screenwriter needs to understand about storytelling, about arcs, creating characters, character arcs, dialogues, plot points, structure of the story and several other things. And he has that nightmare as a resume. And he's going to translate his own script into a fully formed film.

But as I said: His resume means absolutely nothing. It's no indication of what and how he is as a storyteller. He just has nothing to do with any of those awful movies. Nothing at all.

His resume is an example of him as a collaborator. That's pretty much been his career. That's how he's built connections and gotten to the position he's at presently. Perhaps that's why he decided to go alone with Dark Phoenix. Less influences and inputs and more freedom, centralized vision, and creative control (which also equals more prominent recognition as well). We haven't really seen "his own script". Dark Phoenix will be the first due to the fact as director he can decide the changes this time rather than someone else. Sure...he's a storyteller, but he's not telling his own story in these script rewrites or co-writes. But Rather a merger of other writers' versions melded and molded into the director's vision along with studio approval. The script is a template. That's why films tend to have a story the script is based on with a team that usually involve the director. Directors are not merely "translating" a script, but they interpret to their own vision as a visual storyteller and often as the script is being formed. For example, if someone else were to direct Kinberg's script, it will be a different movie from the one he's making because they are interpreting it differently. That's why he was adamant he direct his own script for this movie because he apparently had a distinct vision for this movie. Literally anything about the script can be changed by the Director. Directors are responsible for the final draft and they always change the scripts in some form. This isn't a scenario where the script remain unchanged from what the writer intended. That's just not how screenwriting work in Hollywood. Kinberg's jobs have been collaborative and usually involve multiple writers, in multiple rewrites, with multiple producers collectively working on the vision of the director...in alignment with the studio of course.

 

[psylockolussus]

What negative word of mouth? People at test screenings were positive. Even Slugzilla was positive about it. Are u talking about the delay?

I wasn't referring to Test screenings which of course have done well only for Fox to order major reshoots and delay the release... I was referring to the negativity here in this board. Also have you seen the Shh news articles for Dark Phoenix? The top comments under the articles are mostly negative.

 

[Jh7058622]

I wasn't referring to Test screenings which of course have done well only for Fox to order major reshoots and delay the release... I was referring to the negativity here in this board. Also have you seen the Shh news articles for Dark Phoenix? The top comments under the articles are mostly negative.

Yes because message boards don't tend to be negative in general. I remember when First Class was coming out absolutely everything was demolished on these boards. Didn't stop the film from being good.

 

[psylockolussus]

Yes because message boards don't tend to be negative in general. I remember when First Class was coming out absolutely everything was demolished on these boards. Didn't stop the film from being good.

So any eXplanation about your logo change means tone change?

 

[Jh7058622]

So any eXplanation about your logo change means tone change?

What did that have to do with my comment? Did you have a stroke while typing that or are you just unable to read?

 

[psylockolussus]

Because you never replied back when two posters replied to that comment of yours? So a logo change means tone change now? That's what you have said. So I am asking you, when clearly that wasn't the case and a bad argument to begin with.

 

[Erik Lensherr]

So....anyway.....on a separate note, according to x-menfilms.com on the tone of Dark Phoenix:

It'll be interesting to see how the trailer will showcase that.

It also tweeted this:

Did he watch Dark Phoenix?

 

[Cktopl33]

Did he watch Dark Phoenix?

I think that person saw footage maybe, as well as know info about the movie and is not giving away any spoilers. This person said they have not watch the full movie itself.


This is from someone who claimed he/she saw a test screening:

Not going to go into visuals, test screenings are never a good indicator regarding visuals, as for costumes for the most part, the X-Men wear the costumes seen in that set photo, Jean wears something similar to what she wore in Last Stand and Magneto wears full black with his classic helment

Another person said

Holy ***** #DarkPhoenix ending Yesssssss

They better don't change #DarkPhoenix ending during reshoots bc omfggg that it's gonna be some Epic moment in cb history.

(showed a gif of X-men the Animated Series Jean in the fire bird out in space somewhere, don't know specifically what it implies or what scene in the cartoon its referring to because the gif is cropped in close to Jean)

 

[Ryan1210]

From what I read

Spoiler

Jean destroys the world and creates a new one at the end of the movie.WHERE THE HELL ARE THOSE SPOILERS FROM??

 

[Cktopl33]

From what I read

Spoiler

Jean destroys the world and creates a new one at the end of the movie.WHERE THE HELL ARE THOSE SPOILERS FROM??

LOL, if that's true then it would be a very easy and convenient reset for Marvel to takeover with their version of X-men when they launch I suppose (if everything goes as planned with the merger or simply regaining the rights to these properties). That would be quite the twist except the twist is described happening midway through the movie, not the end. So, I'm uncertain about that rumor.

 

[Erik Lensherr]

Spoiler

jean destroying the world and then creating a new one where they are now part of the mcu ugh strong legend, kingberg really snapped can't wait

wtf???