Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[Alison Blaire]

Hugh and his obsession with Halle.
Most of his interviews always were between Halle or Famke. Like he didnt give a damm about the rest of the X-Men.

Saying 'I would have loved to share some scenes with Jimmy' or Ellen would have been a real surprise to me and considerate from him.

But Hugh is not that much different from Fox execs

Sorry but you are wrong.Hugh only talks about Ryan Reynolds,Fassbender,MacAvoy...,only boys.Like a Macho man!

 

[Jh7058622]

Umm no.. he is obsessed with Halle Berry it is well documented.

 

[Alison Blaire]

Umm no.. he is obsessed with Halle Berry it is well documented.

No.Hugh Jackman only support the boys.He follow Ryan and the other guys on twitter and instagram.Not Halle,Anna,Ellen....

 

[Frankeh]

Just like Jean and Cyclops will most likely have the biggest roles in X3 if it’s based on The Dark Phoenix Saga.

Or Cyclops, Storm and Jean will most likely star in the movie X-men: First Class, if they were some of Xavier’s “first students.”

Or Kitty Pryde will most likely be the lead in the movie about X-men Days of Future Past.

Or Archangel will most likely be the main Horseman in an X-men: Apocalypse movie.

Oh wait, none of that happened. And none of that is guaranteed.

Just like Jean Cyclops and Storm were supposed to be main characters in X-Men: Apocalypse.

I personally do believe Turner will have a lead role in this. Whether she'll be written well is an entirely different issue though. I'm not confident...

 

[xrs13]

Okay, we’ve officially reached a stage of no return. We’re now talking about whether Hugh Jackman cared about the rest of his cast... based on interviews.

Please please please can we get some news on this film soon

 

[Frankeh]

Hugh and his obsession with Halle.

They were the poster characters for the OT.

 

[The Infernal]

Just like Jean Cyclops and Storm were supposed to be main characters in X-Men: Apocalypse.

I personally do believe Turner will have a lead role in this. Whether she'll be written well is an entirely different issue though. I'm not confident...

Well Kinberg said something to the effect that they're still treating it like a mental disorder, but I would hope she would have a more active role this time. She seemed a bit passive and spaced out in The Last Stand.

 

[X-Maniac]

If they don't promote Turner then they can't promote the Phoenix. they come hand in hand.

That depends.

These films have a large cast, the pie has to be divided up between all the actors. Some end up getting short-changed.

The studio has its own preferences and obsessions with certain stars who it believes to be the ones to carry the film. The execs will be wanting most focus on the stars with biggest status and most awards.

Kinberg will have his own obsessions and preferences. He will also be pressured by the studio into doing certain things.

Then there are the test screenings. If audiences respond well - or fail to respond - to a certain performance, then that will be changed during reshoots and editing.

Further to that, promotional materials including posters, trailers and interviews can all be misleading. X3 looked amazing from its trailer and we all know how that is regarded these days.

 

[X-Maniac]

Whats Official info though?



Jeremy Conrad (@ManaByte) said Deadpool 2 was awful and gave out spoilers like crazy saying people were gonna hate it.

So...?

Some of us do indeed think Deadpool 2 was not very good. I knew it wouldn't do as well, there was something clearly amiss with it.

And the fact that it made less than the first movie, rather than building on that success, means something was definitely wrong with it.

I'll give you a clue: They tried too hard and there was clearly studio/producer over-enthusiasm (and probably meddling) which accounts for the overstuffed feeling of the X-Men cameo, mansion scenes and multiple character deaths. It fell into the same trap that has blighted the main X-Men movies - cramming characters into films 'just because' and not developing them properly, and just killing some of them off as cannon fodder. That backfired on them big time as though they had not learned a single thing at all from the criticisms of X3, Origins, X:A and DoFP.

 

[Frankeh]

Deadpool 2 has some unacceptably bad CGI.

Not as bad as X-Men: Apocalypse, but still...

Well Kinberg said something to the effect that they're still treating it like a mental disorder, but I would hope she would have a more active role this time. She seemed a bit passive and spaced out in The Last Stand.

Yikes. I hate the mental disorder thing. I guess Kinberg thinks it will make the Phoenix more of a "serious"/"grounded" thing instead of a cosmic all powerful firebird, or just an extension of Jean Grey's powers.

We'll see how that turns out.

 

[GuestStar2004]

The studio has its own preferences and obsessions with certain stars who it believes to be the ones to carry the film. The execs will be wanting most focus on the stars with biggest status and most awards.

Only to a certain degree. if they care then yes they will want people to know the actor is in it. aka like Tony stark in Homecoming... but overall he wasn't in the film all that much.

Kinberg will have his own obsessions and preferences. He will also be pressured by the studio into doing certain things.

Kinberg has said in the past that his favorite X-Man is Jean grey.

Then there are the test screenings. If audiences respond well - or fail to respond - to a certain performance, then that will be changed during reshoots and editing.

Presumbaly that will be abit harder with Jean in this scenario.

They tried too hard and there was clearly studio/producer over-enthusiasm (and probably meddling) which accounts for the overstuffed feeling of the X-Men cameo, mansion scenes and multiple character deaths.

I find it funny you still hang on to this idea that the studio made them do stuff that you don't agree with rather than the idea that the deadpool team actually wanted to do these things.

Infact the director and writers they have said in various interviews that it was their decision and that the success of the first one allowed them more freedom to do that stuff

 

[Lip]

Whats Official info though?

What they released officially.

Jeremy Conrad (@ManaByte) said Deadpool 2 was awful and gave out spoilers like crazy saying people were gonna hate it.

So...?

So? So you can't be selective like that. If you're going to believe Scott and Beast have a big amount of screentime based on that reddit post, then you have to believe the movie is awful like that post says. You can't just select what is appeals to you from that to make your "point".

Also, I'm on the team that didn't like Deadpool 2. I don't think it's a bad movie, but it's OK at best (to me).

 

[GuestStar2004]

So? So you can't be selective like that. If you're going to believe Scott and Beast have a big amount of screentime based on that reddit post, then you have to believe the movie is awful like that post says. You can't just select what is appeals to you from that to make your "point".

That is why i brought up Jeremy Conrad. he gave out loads of Deadpool 2 spoilers and he didn't like that movie and expected it was gonna be badly received... but the film wasn't badly received even if he and some were disappointed with it.

 

[icekid]

Yikes. I hate the mental disorder thing. I guess Kinberg thinks it will make the Phoenix more of a "serious"/"grounded" thing instead of a cosmic all powerful firebird, or just an extension of Jean Grey's powers.

We'll see how that turns out.

I don’t think the Phoenix needs to be a cosmic entity with its own being in order to faithfully adapt the Dark Phoenix Saga because in the original comic run, it wasn’t.

The Dark Phoenix Saga was about Jean, whose codename was Phoenix after her powers unlocking its full potential, being driven insane into a scitsiophrenic state. For them to adapt it with more emphasis on her mental state is very true to the source material. That’s what it was and what was fully intended before the retcon years after that I’m sure was only done to bring back the character who otherwise couldn’t be resurrected or be blamed on a fake death as they al pretty much saw her vaporize herself. I think the retcon ruined the original dramatic weight and spiraled out of control.

 

[BMM]

Plus, Dark Phoenix kills a billion people, so having Phoenix be an alien entity is a way to redeem Jean.

 

[icekid]

Plus, Dark Phoenix kills a billion people, so having Phoenix be an alien entity is a way to redeem Jean.

I don’t think she needed to redeem herself for her actions. It could have simply been a tragic story that would have more long term ramifications as mutants would have been viewed to the entire universe in the way humans on earth do, a threat.

What doesn’t make sense is why she needed to eat a sun, cosmic entity or not. It’s not something needed, but a galaxy had to die for the sake of the story. Do you think Genosha will take its place in the film’s grounded take on the story?

 

[Lip]

That is why i brought up Jeremy Conrad. he gave out loads of Deadpool 2 spoilers and he didn't like that movie and expected it was gonna be badly received... but the film wasn't badly received even if he and some were disappointed with it.

And again you're changing completely the point of the conversation. That's why I usually ignore your posts.

So making my point again, judging by the official infos we have, Raven, Charles, Eric and Jean will have big roles. If you want to post official infos where there are whole paragraphs about the roles of Storm, Beast, Kurt, Scott and others, be my guest.

The reddit posts that claims Scott and Beast have big amount of screentime, also claims the movie is awful and repeat mistakes from previous movies.

"Jeremy Conrad" brought up here has nothing to do with the point about the screentime of Dark Phoenix characters.

 

[Cktopl33]

Yikes. I hate the mental disorder thing. I guess Kinberg thinks it will make the Phoenix more of a "serious"/"grounded" thing instead of a cosmic all powerful firebird, or just an extension of Jean Grey's powers.

We'll see how that turns out.

As someone else pointed out, the initial plotline of the Phoenix was that it would be a manifestation of Jean's true potential and these powers are considered her own. It was meant to turn Jean Grey herself into a cosmic character. A lot of fans forget that. It's probably why Chris Claremont was so glowing about Simon Kinberg redoing the story because the film's concept was closer to the original idea before the retcon of the Phoenix as a separate entity from Jean Grey, placing her in a healing cocoon, and believing itself to be Jean Grey. Kinberg was simply honoring the original idea of the writer. Remember, Claremont thought Jean Grey should have stayed dead and was pissed off about the retcon:

That would have been one of those benchmark moments where - because I had played it for the next few years as long as I could get away with it - the other X-Men suddenly realize "We are mortal. We are not protected by the fact that we're all copywritten and trademarked."

 

[C. Lee]

A reminder for everyone.....uncensored cursing is NOT allowed on the HYPE.....do not post videos that have uncensored cursing in it.

 

[Cktopl33]

Found an interesting article on comicsverse that delve somewhat into the Phoenix's original plot-line (but it's long):

A Strong Start Later Muddled by Retcons?

Countless retcons and re-retcons convolute exactly what happened. It’s up to another article to explore the precise nature of the Phoenix and Jean Grey. Here, we’ll go with the original intention of the creators. Jean manages to fly the plane to Earth. The plane crashes in the middle of the Jamaica Bay in Queens, New York. The X-Men rise to the top of the water one by one. Everyone assumes Jean died. In a fit of rage and denial, Cyclops frantically searches for her. Finally, the water bubbles. Jean emerges from the water reborn as Phoenix.

Later, the creative team behind the newly retitled UNCANNY X-MEN explain Professor Xavier telepathically tampered with Jean’s mind during her youth. He placed psychic barriers in Jean’s mind that dampened her immense power as a safety measure from Jean losing control. Jean pushing her abilities to the limit flying the ship broke through the psychic barriers. Newly powered up, Jean Grey is no longer Marvel Girl. She now calls herself Phoenix.

Upon further inspection, Jean breaking through Xavier’s barriers in her mind resonates. An older man “who knows best” prevents a woman from attaining her potential as a human being. Jean’s freedom from Xavier’s barriers mirrors the feminism happening in the outside world. Women all across the United States broke free from the shackles placed on their potential to be whoever it is they want by the patriarchy. They, like Jean, started to break free from years of repression.

Jean’s powers infinitely augmented to the degree that she controls matter telekinetically at the subatomic level. She can rearrange molecules and transmute one thing into something else simply by willing it to occur. Her telepathic powers also reached cosmic levels. Her role on the team now the opposite of how she started, Jean Grey as Phoenix became the most powerful member of the X-Men in an instant.

As Phoenix, Jean Grey won battles against everyone from the Shi’Ar’s Gladiator to heralds of Galactus.

Several factors contributed to Jean’s role as Phoenix correlating to the most popular time in X-Men history. First, as the powerhouse of the X-Men team, no one tired of watching Jean kick serious ass. Additionally, certain male characters reacted to Jean’s new powers in similar ways men reacted to women’s liberation. To put it mildly, they were scared. They didn’t know what to do with themselves. At times, Cyclops seemed like he lost his very identity. Decades later, we finally learn just how emasculated he feels as the arm candy to the most powerful cosmic force in the universe.

In not quite FATAL ATTRACTION style, we learn what happens when a man tampers with the mental wellness of Jean Grey in the “Dark Phoenix Saga." The Hellfire Club, led by Sebastian Shaw, Harry Leland, Donald Pierce, Emma Frost and Jason Wyngarde, plans to rule the world by gradually amassing power as a secret society. The goals of the Hellfire Club carefully contrast with Magneto’s ideology. The Hellfire Club concerns itself with world domination while at this point, Magneto seems like another victim of humanity’s ugliness. He constantly attempts preemptive strikes against his former oppressors.

Mastermind’s plan attains success after entering Jean Grey’s mind and implanting enough memories of her fictitious past life that Jean believes it to be her reality. The romance they share in her false memories somehow gave her a taste of how good selfishness and meanness feel. Jean subsequently surrenders to the illusion completely. She loses touch with reality and thinks she’s the Black Queen of the Hellfire Club. Mastermind’s plan backfires in a huge way when it drives Jean a little too crazy. She breaks through his illusion as a charming and handsome man, subsequently revealing him as older, unattractive, and frail. Instead of killing Mastermind, UNCANNY X-MEN overlaps with SANDMAN: DREAM COUNTRY. Jean gives him what he wants. She bestows near limitless power onto him by connecting his mind to the entire universe.

Jean embracing her rage and becoming Dark Phoenix isn’t merely about the mental and physical rape Mastermind caused. Jean’s reaction is the reaction of many women finally free to respond however they want. Her anger far outreaches the deeds of the Hellfire Club. Jean is angry for having her mind tampered and violated, yet, another time. She is angry regarding her marginalization as a member of the X-Men. She is angry about the twenty-four years she’s been alive up until this point and not had the freedom to reach her potential. The Hellfire Club represents the shadow government of the patriarchy. Mastermind represents the face of the Hellfire Club. At that moment, Jean reacts with the ferocity I can only imagine some women felt by their oppression before the women’s movement.

As the famous saying goes: “Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.” As Dark Phoenix, Jean destroys an entire solar system with billions of inhabitants. Next, Jean takes on the whole team of X-Men in addition to Beast and Angel. She effortlessly defeats them. In a final plea, Cyclops tells Jean she cannot and will not kill the X-Men because she loves them. Various interpretations of the “Dark Phoenix Saga” can be deduced by Jean’s behavior and Chris Claremont’s excellent writing. I may have read the “Dark Phoenix Saga” more than any other comic book arc in my lifetime. First, Chris Claremont chose Jean to become the Phoenix. That choice, in itself, speaks volumes. The turning tides of the times influenced Claremont. He welcomed the change with arms wide open. Jean’s final action before death is something many women never have the opportunity to do — choose. Rather than any other outcome occur outside of her control, Jean makes a choice to end her life. Jean knew she might die. If she had to, she wanted the decision to belong to her and only her. While the power of the Phoenix overwhelmed Jean, Jean fought back and won twice. Rather than thinking the Phoenix Force overwhelmed Jean, think of the strength necessary to fight back against one of the cosmic forces of creation itself. Jean Grey, an ordinary woman from Annandale-on-Hudson, New York, had the constitution of character required to subdue and, even, overcome a cosmic force. That’s no easy feat.

People often struggle with addictions, intrusive thoughts, self-repression, external oppression, and anxiety. An estimated 25% of the population suffers from anxiety. Furthermore, issues surrounding mental health are often stigmatized, even in the most developed nations where studies are easily accessible to the public. Due to forced use of their own coping mechanisms, Jean Grey struggling to break free from her Dark Phoenix persona mirrors peoples’ own battles with mental health. In “Dark Phoenix Saga,” Jean expresses her difficulty living with a hunger for “a joy, a rapture beyond all comprehension.” These might not be the exact same words someone suffering from addiction might use, however, the metaphor applies nonetheless. Anyone who feels rageful, overly angry, suffers from addiction, or obsessive-compulsive disorder easily identifies with Jean breaking through her Dark Phoenix persona. While feeling consumed by one’s affliction, moments of alternative thoughts creep into the mind. As someone who deals with some of the same issues I’m discussing, I wish I had more moments where my essential self broke through the moments my addictions consumed me. Those opportunities afford a check-in with one’s behavior. Sometimes, when you catch yourself acting out of anxiety, fear, or anger, you can interrupt the pattern and calm yourself. All of this isn’t only true for those suffering from a mental health problem. Anyone can relate to not having the skills to stop thinking harmful thoughts or feeling self-sabotaging negativity. “The Dark Phoenix Saga” serves as a beacon to all those who relate. Kitty Pryde is often considered the everywoman. However in “Dark Phoenix Saga,” Jean’s battle with her darker instincts primally tell the story of almost every person alive or dead. It might be one of the reasons the X-MEN: DARK PHOENIX SAGA trade will forever remain a classic in the same way as Medea and A Doll’s House.“Dark Phoenix Saga” strikes a primal chord deep within the souls of its readers.

 

[Frankeh]

As someone else pointed out, the initial plotline of the Phoenix was that it would be a manifestation of Jean's true potential and these powers are considered her own. It was meant to turn Jean Grey herself into a cosmic character. A lot of fans forget that. It's probably why Chris Claremont was so glowing about Simon Kinberg redoing the story because the film's concept was closer to the original idea before the retcon of the Phoenix as a separate entity from Jean Grey, placing her in a healing cocoon, and believing itself to be Jean Grey. Kinberg was simply honoring the original idea of the writer. Remember, Claremont thought Jean Grey should have stayed dead and was pissed off about the retcon:

I never said it wasn't originally an extension of her powers.

And yeah, not surprised you are already championing Kinberg's take on this. At this point you might as well have read the script to come to this conclusion that he is honoring Claremont's intent.

Jessica Chastain's character is nowhere to be found in the Dark Phoenix Saga. Magneto and Genosha also do not have sizable roles in the Dark Phoenix Saga. Kinberg is taking many liberties, this doesn't sound like another DOFP.

 

[icekid]

Jessica Chastain's character is nowhere to be found in the Dark Phoenix Saga. Magneto and Genosha also do not have sizable roles in the Dark Phoenix Saga. Kinberg is taking many liberties, this doesn't sound like another DOFP.

Although I pointed out that the terms of what Dark Phoenix is, as its original intent, and Simon Kinbergs version of her in both this movie and ,as much as I hate this movie, X3, are pretty close pre retcon, I get your point.

I originally saw this movie happening as a way to finally have a movie without Magneto and Mystique but of course that ended up not being the case. When Genosha was confirmed I saw an opportunity to have Magneto and Genosha stand in for the Lilandria (leader) and D’Bari (decimated civilization) figures in the more ‘grounded’ take to drive the weight of what the story originally had on Jean. Only time will tell if that plays out but throwing in Chastains character still throws that all off.

Im not fully defending Kinberg but as it goes for my judgement of this movie , I’ll hold off until I’ve seen it. Let the record show that I despise X3 with a passion. They literally turned Dark Phoenix into Act 3 Carrie, right down to her facial expressions and hand movements during the House and Alcatraz power scenes.

 

[Cktopl33]

I never said it wasn't originally an extension of her powers.

And yeah, not surprised you are already championing Kinberg's take on this. At this point you might as well have read the script to come to this conclusion that he is honoring Claremont's intent.

Jessica Chastain's character is nowhere to be found in the Dark Phoenix Saga. Magneto and Genosha also do not have sizable roles in the Dark Phoenix Saga. Kinberg is taking many liberties, this doesn't sound like another DOFP.

Wasn't "championing" anything, I was repeating what Claremont was saying. It was he who had a positive outlook on the cast and crew:

[Dark Phoenix director] Simon Kinberg has his heart in the right place. He’s got the best ensemble cast of young faces I’ve seen in quite a while. My hope is it will give the Avengers a more than decent run for their money.

The subject in discussion was in regard to how the Phoenix was treated:

Well Kinberg said something to the effect that they're still treating it like a mental disorder, but I would hope she would have a more active role this time.

The film does seem to be using the phoenix as an extension of her powers and mirror some comic elements according to the synopsis:

Set in 1992, about 10 years after the events of last year’s X-Men: Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix opens with the X-Men find themselves in a new, unexpected role: national heroes. Charles Xavier (James McAvoy) even lands on the cover of Time magazine. But his growing ego puts the team at risk. After they’re dispatched to space for a rescue mission, a solar flare hits the X-Jet and the surge of energy ignites a malevolent, power-hungry new force within Jean — the Phoenix.

IMDB: Jean Grey begins to develop incredible powers that corrupt and turn her into a Dark Phoenix. Now the X-Men will have to decide if the life of a team member is worth more than all the people living in the world.

I pointed out that Kinberg was honoring the original intent of the PHOENIX, which was Claremont's intent, which clearly uses metaphor for mental illness in the comic. That is part of her struggle with attempting to maintain control. Why you think the mental illness angle dismisses that, I don't understand.

I won't know what exactly is in the movie until it releases. I don't trust any claims about the film, particularly regarding Chastain whose character was intentionally shrouded in mystery and have had many contradictory rumors. All adapted films take liberties. I was never expecting this to exactly mirror the comics, something fans STILL have yet to learn. Even Infinity War doesn't mirror the comic with things in the movie that have nothing to do with the comic.

 

[icekid]

Anyone notice that Jean in the original comic was Dark Phoenix for pretty much an hour or two? I’m rereading it now and she literally turned above Central Park, beat the X-Men, flew across the galaxy to eat a sun and then flew back home. At home she fought the X-Men again until Xavier put her mental circuit breakers back on and bam, Dark Phoenix is done. Even in the gladiator match she just briefly turned back into regular Phoenix, although her last two panels colored her costume in red for some unexplained reason whereas it was green the 6 panels prior.

Without the inclusion of the Hellfire Saga in this movie or a previous entry setting up Phoenix and the Shi’ar in a prior and separate movie, I’d have to take some liberties to turn the above into a movie. As we have gotten tidbits about prior and during production, it looks as if they actually tried to make it a two parter and Fox put a leash on it just like they forced the Gifted storyline in X3.

 

[Cktopl33]

Without the inclusion of the Hellfire Saga in this movie or a previous entry setting up Phoenix and the Shi’ar in a prior and separate movie, I’d have to take some liberties to turn the above into a movie. As we have gotten tidbits about prior and during production, it looks as if they actually tried to make it a two parter and Fox put a leash on it just like they forced the Gifted storyline in X3.

The Dark Phoenix saga doesn't go galactic as much as the previous Phoenix story-line. Most of it take place on earth, then on the moon in the last part. Throughout the story you do see her slowly sort of shift in her persona, which is what the story is about. That's essentially the story's premise: "absolute power corrupts absolutely".

Keep in mind this movie started filming just as executives of both Fox and Disney were starting to enter into talks about a potential merger (which according to business news sources began back in August of last year). Those making the films wouldn't have any knowledge of this until later. The announcement wasn't officially made until 2 months after Dark Phoenix wrapped shooting. So obviously that affected what was later planned.