Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[Necrom]

I think when it comes to "race" the X-Men movie FAILED bitterly in the last years. In particular when it comes to the prequel trilogy. I think we can all agree on this! Days of Future Past, First Class and Apocalypse are very white-centric movies!

But the first trilogy was quite revolutionary in casting openly gay actors for roles of superheroes (something Marvel still refuses to do to this day!!) and also having a man in a wheelchair as a central character is still fantastic when it comes to the representation of minorities.

I wait before I judge the female representation in Dark Phoenix. So far it looks extremely female centered in comparison to many other superhero movies. I prefer flawed and round characters over one-note, tough and feisty superwomen which are on the level of female representation of 1990s Xena...All the leaks about Jean Grey so far sound really GREAT!

Storm is underused and this disgusts me, also no debate here.

 

[Davidstorm]

a person can smile and be polite to those who do not like

 

[carpenter82]

Speaking of Apocalypse...I find it a more interesting to debate if Bryan Singer was inspired by Afro-American Sci-Fi writer Octavia Butler's novel Wild Seed (1980) for the character Apocalypse (than speaking about behind the scene gossip...).

Butler wrote a story about how a mutant called Doro dating back to old Egypt (!), was one of the first mutants and could take over other mutants bodies (!) and thereby prolong his existence (!). It's crazy how much the character resembles Apocalypse in the movie and the book predates the creation of Apocalypse in the comics.

I wouldn't be surprised. Singer's X-Films draw inspiration from literary and film sources. From what I've heard X2 in particular was influenced by The Once and Future King.

 

[Davidstorm]

speaking in XMA I still suffer from how this movie was a huge waste of opportunity to take the franchise to another level in terms of box office
the hype for this was huge, I remember reading theories, people were commenting a lot on the pages I attended, several people creating conceptual arts of what apocalypse would be like, many excited because of the storm being one of the gentlemen, imagined much destruction, scenes action, and so on, it was very disheartening to leave the cinema and listen to the people sharing who expected much more of it, it was really a lazy film and far below what could.

I hope DP does not finish the story of this franchise, letting the public feel this bad feeling again, so far it seems to be far superior in many things compared to XMA.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

What’s this about diversity being ill-represented in this series? There’s tons of blue people!

 

[carpenter82]

speaking in XMA I still suffer from how this movie was a huge waste of opportunity to take the franchise to another level in terms of box office
the hype for this was huge, I remember reading theories, people were commenting a lot on the pages I attended, several people creating conceptual arts of what apocalypse would be like, many excited because of the storm being one of the gentlemen, imagined much destruction, scenes action, and so on, it was very disheartening to leave the cinema and listen to the people sharing who expected much more of it, it was really a lazy film and far below what could.

I hope DP does not finish the story of this franchise, letting the public feel this bad feeling again, so far it seems to be far superior in many things compared to XMA.

Not to get too far off track, but I really don't understand that viewpoint. Was Apocalypse a disappointment coming off of DOFP? Absolutely, but most films in the superhero genre are disappointing in comparison to DOFP. It could've been better, but I still thought it was solid.

I'm surprised to see you mention the hype surrounding it. On my end I saw nothing but people being cynical about it months before it was released.

 

[carpenter82]

I hope this film carries over the Fox Fanfare, and the cerebro intro. For me those are staples of the series (even though First Class ommited them). It's nice that this series has a hallmark in the same way that 007 has the gunbarrel, and artistic opening titles.

 

[carpenter82]

What’s this about diversity being ill-represented in this series? There’s tons of blue people!

Yeah with a series like this I think the diversity mostly comes from the actual characters. Within the context of the universe there's tons of diversity.

 

[Necrom]

speaking in XMA I still suffer from how this movie was a huge waste of opportunity to take the franchise to another level in terms of box office
the hype for this was huge, I remember reading theories, people were commenting a lot on the pages I attended, several people creating conceptual arts of what apocalypse would be like, many excited because of the storm being one of the gentlemen, imagined much destruction, scenes action, and so on, it was very disheartening to leave the cinema and listen to the people sharing who expected much more of it, it was really a lazy film and far below what could.

I hope DP does not finish the story of this franchise, letting the public feel this bad feeling again, so far it seems to be far superior in many things compared to XMA.

Gosh, I cannot telll you how UTTERLY disappointed I was in X-Men Apocalypse. I actually cried a little bit after seeing it for the first time because I could not believe how LAZY (I think this is exactly the right word) this movie was. I liked the world building in the first half of the movie but everything after Apocalypse took over Cerebro was such a mess...

However, I recently rewatched it. And it is not that bad at all and it has some great scenes. It is not ambitious and the script is sooooooooooo lazy. But I like the characters and it is a fine standard superhero movie setting up an entire world (I personally really like the decade jumping).

DP feels like it should have been the direct sequel to DoFP. I agree. But I'm still not 100 percent excited about it because I'm missing some creative edge. The aesthetic and overall design of DoFP was just magical and still is to this day (the otherworldly Sentinels, Blinks' portals, the time travel plot, etc.). All of this is exciting but so far Dark Phoenix is lacking totally in this regard and does not feel very creative or visionary to be honest...It feels like a perfectly fine X-Men movie but not exciting or new. Maybe Jean's final form and the Fire Bird will bring this new visionary edge and excitement. I hope. I really don't understand why they are hiding the Fire Bird in the trailers so far. We are waiting to see Phoenix since X2!!!!!

I'm a little afraid this will be a Galactus space cloud moment again and we will not see the Phoenix Force but the Phoenix space cloud coming to earth......:-((((

 

[X-Maniac]

Yes, along with Storm most likely. Just as Beast, Wolverine and Storm were in X3. Why are you singling some of their races out i dont understand. If this is another swipe at Fox, didnt they cast a black Johnny Storm.

Yes, and they also cast a black Domino in Deadpool 2. The race-bending is because the star comes before the character.

But I don't think Storm is 'most likely' anything, lol... There will be special effects and action from her in DP, for sure. But it's said that neither she nor Nightcrawler get a very substantial role, so don't go expecting much!

My point 'singling some of their races' was about wanting more prominent diversity.

 

[carpenter82]

Gosh, I cannot telll you how UTTERLY disappointed I was in X-Men Apocalypse. I actually cried a little bit after seeing it for the first time because I could not believe how LAZY (I think this is exactly the right word) this movie was. I liked the world building in the first half of the movie but everything after Apocalypse took over Cerebro was such a mess...

However, I recently rewatched it. And it is not that bad at all and it has some great scenes. It is not ambitious and the script is sooooooooooo lazy. But I like the characters and it is a fine standard superhero movie setting up an entire world (I personally really like the decade jumping).

DP feels like it should have been the direct sequel to DoFP. I agree. But I'm still not 100 percent excited about it because I'm missing some creative edge. The aesthetic and overall design of DoFP was just magical and still is to this day (the otherworldly Sentinels, Blinks' portals, the time travel plot, etc.). All of this is exciting but so far Dark Phoenix is lacking totally in this regard and does not feel very creative or visionary to be honest...It feels like a perfectly fine X-Men movie but not exciting or new. Maybe Jean's final form and the Fire Bird will bring this new visionary edge and excitement. I hope. I really don't understand why they are hiding the Fire Bird in the trailers so far. We are waiting to see Phoenix since X2!!!!!

I'm a little afraid this will be a Galactus space cloud moment again and we will not see the Phoenix Force but the Phoenix space cloud coming to earth......:-((((

You mean DP should've been done with the original cast following DOFP?

 

[Davidstorm]

Not to get too far off track, but I really don't understand that viewpoint. Was Apocalypse a disappointment coming off of DOFP? Absolutely, but most films in the superhero genre are disappointing in comparison to DOFP. It could've been better, but I still thought it was solid.

I'm surprised to see you mention the hype surrounding it. On my end I saw nothing but people being cynical about it months before it was released.

I see apocalypse as a movie "6/10"
not wonderful but not horrible either
but my opinion is based precisely on being a film post DOFP, if you created a great expectation around that, DOFP was able to recover a certain popularity of the franchise that had been lost, I saw a lot of hype around XMA, a proof of this is a result of the first trailer views (over 50million on youtube).
there was a lot of expectation, the public expected something similar to DOFP, it was said that there would be huge things never seen in the franchise, great action scenes, people got excited about it
and when the product was delivered it seemed that everything had been a misleading advertisement.

 

[Davidstorm]

Gosh, I cannot telll you how UTTERLY disappointed I was in X-Men Apocalypse. I actually cried a little bit after seeing it for the first time because I could not believe how LAZY (I think this is exactly the right word) this movie was. I liked the world building in the first half of the movie but everything after Apocalypse took over Cerebro was such a mess...

However, I recently rewatched it. And it is not that bad at all and it has some great scenes. It is not ambitious and the script is sooooooooooo lazy. But I like the characters and it is a fine standard superhero movie setting up an entire world (I personally really like the decade jumping).

DP feels like it should have been the direct sequel to DoFP. I agree. But I'm still not 100 percent excited about it because I'm missing some creative edge. The aesthetic and overall design of DoFP was just magical and still is to this day (the otherworldly Sentinels, Blinks' portals, the time travel plot, etc.). All of this is exciting but so far Dark Phoenix is lacking totally in this regard and does not feel very creative or visionary to be honest...It feels like a perfectly fine X-Men movie but not exciting or new. Maybe Jean's final form and the Fire Bird will bring this new visionary edge and excitement. I hope. I really don't understand why they are hiding the Fire Bird in the trailers so far. We are waiting to see Phoenix since X2!!!!!

I'm a little afraid this will be a Galactus space cloud moment again and we will not see the Phoenix Force but the Phoenix space cloud coming to earth......:-((((

really, the correct word to describe XMA is laziness, it was clear to me that bryan made the film uncreative, it seems like he just wanted to end this and get away from the franchise, I think any fan would create better things for this movie, I for example, would go further into the subject of religion(I would like to see the conflict of religious society with the god apocalypse denying all the religions of the world), It would also change the gentlemen, perhaps bringing back the gentlemen's lives that appear at the opening of the film, they seemed more powerful and really dangerous..

but talking about DP. I also agree with you on this, the movie seems to be perfectly good, wonderful effects, but I'm still missing something that I can not explain, I do not understand why the final shape of the phoenix is still being hidden, I hope the final result is something really wonderful, I also hope that the final shape of the chastain character is something creative.

 

[Nadia]

really, the correct word to describe XMA is laziness, it was clear to me that bryan made the film uncreative, it seems like he just wanted to end this and get away from the franchise, I think any fan would create better things for this movie, I for example, would go further into the subject of religion, and would place gentlemen to destroy places important to mankind

but talking about DP. I also agree with you on this, the movie seems to be perfectly good, wonderful effects, but I'm still missing something that I can not explain, I do not understand why the final shape of the phoenix is still being hidden, I hope the final result is something really wonderful, I also hope that the final shape of the chastain character is something creative.

It seems like they are building up marketing wiht the evolution of Jeans form (Kinberg even said wiht the first teaser she evolve through the film):

-teaser all we got was the hint of the cracks on her face at the end.

-second trailer. The cracked face appear prominently throughout the trailer (even now in shots from th teaser; when she pulls down the helicopter). Plus, they added the "underwater effect" to her hair and we can see heat waves radiating off it.

- I think the third trailer will show her final from. Mostly likely somehting simailr to the leaked shot from the he Russian teaser (the close up on her face).

 

[EnDz0n3]

Let me just say from the outset that I believe the stories about Singer.

Sophie Turner did an interview with Rolling Stone primarily for Game of Thrones. However, she did briefly discuss Dark Phoenix.
Sophie Turner Calls New X-Men Movie "'Dark Phoenix' Done Right"

In The Rolling Stones interview she also said her time with Bryan Singer was "unpleasant".

Can't wait for Sophie's interviews after Dark Phoenix's bad reviews. Sure they're good friends now but wait til it gets eviscerated by critics and fans alike. The DPh set will probably be unpleasant then too.

I'm sorry, this video tells us nothing. It showcases standard professional behavior by actors. Who is badmouthing the director while promoting a movie?!? "The movie turned out to be ****, because the director did not care about the movie at all during production. Go, see the movie!"

And...this video shows us why no one should ever believe these actors when they're doing press for their movies. Sophie's compliments of Bryan Singer for Apocalypse in that IMDB video sound exactly like her compliments of Simon Kinberg for Dark Phoenix in that New York Comic Con video. I mean if you were watching that Comic Con interview about how Simon Kinberg is the brain behind the X-men and believing EVERY. SINGLE. WORD. OF. IT. then I've got bad news for you. You should watch that IMDB interview.

 

[carpenter82]

really, the correct word to describe XMA is laziness, it was clear to me that bryan made the film uncreative, it seems like he just wanted to end this and get away from the franchise, I think any fan would create better things for this movie, I for example, would go further into the subject of religion(I would like to see the conflict of religious society with the god apocalypse denying all the religions of the world), It would also change the gentlemen, perhaps bringing back the gentlemen's lives that appear at the opening of the film, they seemed more powerful and really dangerous..

but talking about DP. I also agree with you on this, the movie seems to be perfectly good, wonderful effects, but I'm still missing something that I can not explain, I do not understand why the final shape of the phoenix is still being hidden, I hope the final result is something really wonderful, I also hope that the final shape of the chastain character is something creative.

Not to constantly combat every post, but I definitely didn't think Apocalypse was a lazy film from a filmmaking perspective. The cinematography is gorgeous (possibly my favorite out of the series), the action is solid, and for the most part the performances are pretty good. It sounds like your problems mostly stem from the script rather than the direction.

From a filmmaking perspective lazy is a term I reserve for films like Catwoman, Jonah Hex, X-Men Origins: Wolverine etc.

 

[Web-Head]

I see apocalypse as a movie "6/10"
not wonderful but not horrible either
but my opinion is based precisely on being a film post DOFP, if you created a great expectation around that, DOFP was able to recover a certain popularity of the franchise that had been lost, I saw a lot of hype around XMA, a proof of this is a result of the first trailer views (over 50million on youtube).
there was a lot of expectation, the public expected something similar to DOFP, it was said that there would be huge things never seen in the franchise, great action scenes, people got excited about it
and when the product was delivered it seemed that everything had been a misleading advertisement.

I agree about Apocalypse. It's not terrible, just really forgettable and probably a 6/10 for me too. I didn't see too much excitement for Apocalypse for me and my friends, but that was because the trailers really weren't too impressive.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Let me just say from the outset that I believe the stories about Singer.

Can't wait for Sophie's interviews after Dark Phoenix's bad reviews. Sure they're good friends now but wait til it gets eviscerated by critics and fans alike. The DPh set will probably be unpleasant then too.

So you are emplying Sophie only said that about Singer because apocalypse didn't have great reviews? Certainly makes her sound two faced.

 

[EnDz0n3]

So you are emplying Sophie only said that about Singer because apocalypse didn't have great reviews? Certainly makes her sound two faced.

Watch the interviews from Sophie before Apocalypse came out and compare that with her Rolling Stone "unpleasant" interview. Certainly looks like she is.

Again, I believe the Singer stories. But that's beside the point.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Well in general Bryan hasn't had a lot of positive things being said about him of late. Even rocha from collider when talking about the raimi malek quotes about Bryan said he has friends who "have delt with" Singer claiming that he is abit of a jerk.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Well in general Bryan hasn't had a lot of positive things being said about him of late. Even rocha from collider when talking about the raimi malek quotes about Bryan said he has friends who "have delt with" Singer claiming that he is abit of a jerk.

So in a roundabout way you've answered your own question: Is Sophie two-faced? Sounds like she said something before and is saying something else now.

 

[icekid]

Well in general Bryan hasn't had a lot of positive things being said about him of late. Even rocha from collider when talking about the raimi malek quotes about Bryan said he has friends who "have delt with" Singer claiming that he is abit of a jerk.

I’ve run into him and talked to him on several occasions out at bars in WeHo before the the truth behind his madness became mainstream news and he never came across as a jerk to me. I made sure my own drink was always full except one time there was a table at the Abbey involved, but he’s nice. That doesn’t translate to not being a hot mess though, because that she is. I could only imagine how that translates to work.

 

[Necrom]

Not to constantly combat every post, but I definitely didn't think Apocalypse was a lazy film from a filmmaking perspective. The cinematography is gorgeous (possibly my favorite out of the series), the action is solid, and for the most part the performances are pretty good. It sounds like your problems mostly stem from the script rather than the direction.

From a filmmaking perspective lazy is a term I reserve for films like Catwoman, Jonah Hex, X-Men Origins: Wolverine etc.

have we seen the same movie? If something is not solid in this movie than it is definitely the action and how it is shot and choreographed! The effect are completely unfinished and bad. I can't believe that Singer directed Nightcrawler at the White House in X2 and than years later did X-Men vs. Apocalypse where actors basically just standing around and pointing with their fingers at cgi things. I cannot tell you how hard it is for me not to laugh when I see Magneto flies on wires...

I think the editing is also super bad in the last third of the movie as if they simply ran out of time in post-production. Don't get me wrong, I think Ottman is a genius and saved many scenes of this film (Jean vs. Apocalypse and Apocalypse using Cerebro showcases his wonderful talent) but the last 60 minutes or so are a trainwreck and should be re-edited entire. Large parts can also be cut and nobody would bother. I have no idea why this movie is so long...

 

[Alison Blaire]

I’ve run into him and talked to him on several occasions out at bars in WeHo before the the truth behind his madness became mainstream news and he never came across as a jerk to me. I made sure my own drink was always full except one time there was a table at the Abbey involved, but he’s nice. That doesn’t translate to not being a hot mess though, because that she is. I could only imagine how that translates to work.

Some time ago I had the opportunity to meet him and he seemed an intelligent and friendly guy.

 

[carpenter82]

have we seen the same movie? If something is not solid in this movie than it is definitely the action and how it is shot and choreographed! The effect are completely unfinished and bad. I can't believe that Singer directed Nightcrawler at the White House in X2 and than years later did X-Men vs. Apocalypse where actors basically just standing around and pointing with their fingers at cgi things. I cannot tell you how hard it is for me not to laugh when I see Magneto flies on wires...

I think the editing is also super bad in the last third of the movie as if they simply ran out of time in post-production. Don't get me wrong, I think Ottman is a genius and saved many scenes of this film (Jean vs. Apocalypse and Apocalypse using Cerebro showcases his wonderful talent) but the last 60 minutes or so are a trainwreck and should be re-edited entire. Large parts can also be cut and nobody would bother. I have no idea why this movie is so long...

I just don't see the film you're describing at all. I'm not going to sit here and act like Apocalypse is some masterpiece, but I don't see the trainwreck you're making it out to be. Also, I don't get the constant complaint about the effects. Again I'm not going to act like they're the best effects ever, but as far as recent superhero films are concerned it just falls right in line with everything else. I certainly didn't see any CG work that was as bad as the final fight in Black Panther for example.