Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - Part 5

[Lip]

how can some fans really believe Kinberg learned from his past mistakes when he repeated the same mistakes all over again in Apocalypse?

Check out what he said he learned from XMA then check out what he said he was trying to do in XMA before the movie was released.

He is full of ****. lol

 

[Charzhin0]

Dammit I really want to see a trailer or teaser soon as possible!!

 

[psylockolussus]

how can some fans really believe Kinberg learned from his past mistakes when he repeated the same mistakes all over again in Apocalypse?

he underused, wasted and killed characters in X3. 10 years later, he underused, wasted and killed characters in XMA, leading to critics and fans dissapointment once again.

How exactly has he learned anything then?

He learned to make more excuses and make up words to sell the movie.

 

[jignat]

Dammit I really want to see a trailer or teaser soon as possible!!

Get ready to wait 7 months.

Fox generally releases the first trailer for Xmen films 5 months before the movie releases, which means June 2018 when Deadpool 2 comes out.

DOFP 1st trailer came out 7 months before which was unusual.

Given Kinberg's novice status as a director, Im assuming Fox will want to polish the heck out of any promotional material.
Thats why this movie has 1 year of post production time as opposed to 6 months or so for most Hollywood blockbusters.

 

[squeekness]

Going to be a long wait.

 

[Phoenix_Flare]

The only thing that has me down about this movie is that it’s set in the 90s and thus franchise was its peak back then and it’s sad to know we’re not getting 1/2 of the team. I’d do anything to see Gambit, Rogue, and Jubilee alongside Scott Storm and Jean. Yes Psylocke is rumored to return but she was written as a villain so she might not be a team member. One of the things this franchise has gotten wrong is the whole team in general. Like none of them have their personalities or interact with each other.

 

[psyonic]

Check out what he said he learned from XMA then check out what he said he was trying to do in XMA before the movie was released.

He is full of ****. lol

He really is. If DP gets poor reviews I will not be watching it in theatres, that's for sure.

 

[psyonic]

Well the whole reason he's making XDP is because he messed up on X3. He clearly wants to make amends for how things turned out. And to be fair he wasn't the only one to blame for some of the bad decisions. He has his terrible moments from what we've seen so far but it has always been committee projects (Apocalypse included, yes).

I reserve my judgement until I see more because we've never seen what his sole vision looks like as Fox has normally had a "too many cooks" approach to see his specific vision clearly.

They really sold Psylocke in the trailers, don't be fooled lol.. XMA sucked hard. Funnily the X3 trailer and XMA was pretty good and I would say better than the movies itself.

 

[psyonic]

None of these would have bothered me either way. I didn't care whether or not Magneto found out about Peter, and the "No, I betrayed them," line was better, anyway, than Kinberg's line.

I have a problem with Apocalypse due to the same problem with X3, and that was the script. In Apocalypse specifically, the writing treats the audience like we're idiots.

1) The WHOLE WORLD has officially accepted mutants? And the only outliers to this are illegal organizations like cage fighting? We can't even get certain places on Earth to accept women...but every place is a-ok with a blue guy teleporting around a mall? No.

2) Magneto killed more people than the main villain. But because we see the destruction porn at a distance, we're too stupid to know that those dots flying off the bridges families in cars who died because Erik was having a bad day. This ruined the character for me.

3) The characters reverted to their FC status. Charles being naive in FC made sense--no one knew how humans would react to mutants and he's had a sheltered upbringing. 50-year-old Xavier would know better. He's a telepath, for Christ's sake, with mutant children who have come from different upbringings. And Erik...God. Fassbender did his best, but it's like having Bruce Wayne lose his parents, become Batman, be Batman in movie 2, and then--for no reason at all--decide not to be Batman in movie 3, have a family who--once again--is murdered and then repeats the same story arc as before. Rinse and repeat?--so, so unoriginal.

Bottom line, Kinberg did a great job with DOFP. The reviews were excellent, the box office was almost as good as The Winter Soldier, and it was well received by most fans. But when he can't conjure up enough conflict, he attempts to artificially create it by killing off characters and thinking that complex = depth and death = drama.

Him having total control of Dark Phoenix is just terrifying. I really hope I'm wrong here.

Eh.. I really doubt this. X3 and XMA was pure trash dumpster material. FC was a solid 8/10 to me so I'm still gonna believe Goldman/Vaughan's stuff was used more so than Kinberg's in DoFP.

 

[jaymes_e06]

They really sold Psylocke in the trailers, don't be fooled lol.. XMA sucked hard. Funnily the X3 trailer and XMA was pretty good and I would say better than the movies itself.

I'm talking about reviews and clips too. Don't worry once bitten twice shy when it comes to amazing trailered movies that has trash films.

 

[DACrowe]

how can some fans really believe Kinberg learned from his past mistakes when he repeated the same mistakes all over again in Apocalypse?

he underused, wasted and killed characters in X3. 10 years later, he underused, wasted and killed characters in XMA, leading to critics and fans dissapointment once again.

How exactly has he learned anything then?

I actually think he is a pretty smart guy (Harvard and all that). He has produced good movies not related to comics like The Martian, and he also was a producer on Logan and Deadpool. He was on set for those. So I do believe he can legitimately see where those movies worked and X-Men: Apocalypse did not. It's not like, ahem, you need a degree to figure out what is wrong with XMA or X3 before it. HOWEVER, him being able to apply that experience and knowledge into an actual quality movie? I am skeptical, of course. He did co-write X-Men: Days of Future Past to be fair... but I don't think he gets credit for a lot of what worked in that movie, since everyone he has flown solo on... well was XMA.

Point is, I am expecting the worst. But I do believe he did try to learn from Apocalypse. These movies aren't made in a vacuum. Will it still be hack-y? Probably, but I do not think he is the oblivious fool fans paint him to be.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Well he wasn't left alone with X3 or apocalypse and he also wasn't left along with DOFP since that movie had the same director as Apocalypse.

Point me to the part of my post where I said he was "left alone with X3 or apocalypse?"

I clearly stated he had sole SCREENPLAY credits on one (apocalypse) and lied to fans on a message board on another (X3).

You've been here long enough to know the actual facts of the goings-on in the franchise, and to know which movies I meant by which statement.

I also clearly stated "unlike DOFP" he's left alone with DaPh. In layman's terms he wasn't left alone with DOFP...Probably a direct correlation to why the movie was good.

I was listening to a podcast with Jeff Goldsmith a couple of weeks ago who interviewed simon kinberg back in 2016 and he found out some early script details about the climax of apocalypse

1. Originally when mystique was trying to talk some sense into Eric she was gonna talk to him like a soldier because that was the manner in which Eric has always encouraged her to be, and that was changed because they felt the film was meant to be about family and wanted to get that vibe across.

That's giving me bad visuals, sorry. Her line delivery and actual lines were bad enough in her scenes in Act 3 of Apocalypse, what's more trying to act/sound like a soldier. It has always been said even by her biggest industry supporters that directors seem to cast JLaw older than she actually is in movies like American Hustle and Silver Linings (which is somewhat related to older actresses being squeezed out of roles in Hollywood). I think it would be funny if she acted all authoritarian towards Michael Fassbender's Magneto and him just ignoring her.

The right call was made by Singer.

2. Quicksilver was meant to give a much bigger hint to Eric that he was his son by after he and mystique try and talk eric down and fail Peter was to sing the song that eric sang to his daughter earlier in the movie which Eric would then asks him where he heard that song, to which peter would reply that his mum heard it from his dad and used to sing it to him as a child.

So you're trying to prove that Kinberg is a good writer right? On paper (or internet ink) these examples are terrible!

Who here actually thinks JLaw "talking like a soldier" and Quicksilver singing are good and not laugh-out-loud funny? I've never heard Evan Peters sing but this has disaster written all over it. (1) It takes the audience out of the scene (2) It sounds Hela awkward.

Thank god this didn't happen.

That was changed because Singer apparently felt eric shouldn't find out that peter was his son because he felt they should stick to concluding relationships set up over the trilogy and there was also a concern it would hurt the tension of the climax

Again, good call, IMO. I think hints are good enough for now. Confirming Magneto as Quicksilver's dad to end the trilogy is not necessary, I don't think.

3. the exchange between eric and apocalypse after eric betrays him was changed from

Apocalypse: What are you doing?!
Magneto: Doing what i couldn't do before. protect my Family!

to

Apocalypse: You betray me?
Magneto: No. I betrayed them.

The line was changed because mystique and quicksilver got the family lines trying to talk him down.

I don't think it would've mattered much tbh.

 

[psylockolussus]

Its easier to look like a "good" producer when you are surrounded by people with more superior talent.

 

[GuestStar2004]

That's giving me bad visuals, sorry. Her line delivery and actual lines were bad enough in her scenes in Act 3 of Apocalypse, what's more trying to act/sound like a soldier. It has always been said even by her biggest industry supporters that directors seem to cast JLaw older than she actually is in movies like American Hustle and Silver Linings (which is somewhat related to older actresses being squeezed out of roles in Hollywood). I think it would be funny if she acted all authoritarian towards Michael Fassbender's Magneto and him just ignoring her.

The right call was made by Singer.

And yet it wasn't even changed for the reason you just said.

 

[Iceman]

They really sold Psylocke in the trailers, don't be fooled lol.. XMA sucked hard. Funnily the X3 trailer and XMA was pretty good and I would say better than the movies itself.

At least Psylocke was pretty cool in her unfortunately very limited screen time.

Step up from the X3 version lol. Some progress!

 

[marvelrobbins]

I'm talking about reviews and clips too. Don't worry once bitten twice shy when it comes to amazing trailered movies that has trash films.

when did they ever try to sell psylocke as key character.the haters have selective memory.

apoclaypse was always called conclusion of first class trilogy and culmination of 6 films.they keep saying time and time again while xavier was focal character of dofp magneto would be in apocalypse.on rogue cut dvd it was said mystique key character.

fairly obvious from horseman magneto would be only one with devolpment.storm was here to be re-introduced in new timeline and to join school at end of film.angel and psylocke were clearly in film as henchman/woman for apocalypse.

the film give somewhat focus on cyclops and jean.which haters convently ignore.i still argie jean is real female lead of apocalypse.

i like apocalypse while others don't but some are trying to act like filmmakers mislead them when they really didn't.

 

[jaymes_e06]

^^^ You're right. This makes no sense.

They really sold Psylocke in the trailers, don't be fooled lol.. XMA sucked hard. Funnily the X3 trailer and XMA was pretty good and I would say better than the movies itself.

What does Psylocke being in a trailer have to do with Kinberg misleading people? Some of you aren't acting rational with your hate of the guy.

 

[marvelrobbins]

^^^ You're right. This makes no sense.
What does Psylocke being in a trailer have to do with Kinberg misleading people? Some of you aren't acting rational with your hate of the guy.

kinberg mislead people in 2006 on a now defuct message board on last stand.he didn't on apocalypse.
i have plenty of skeptism on kinberg myself but some go too far in their hate for him.

 

[EnDz0n3]

And yet it wasn't even changed for the reason you just said.

No one's arguing that Magneto should've had an epiphany right there and then (especially with those bad lines from Mystique). He was also probably distracted by Mystique's stray hairs blowing in the wind...

And why should Magneto listen to Mystique? LOL

Singer has messed up a lot of 1st tier characters but he arguably knows these characters (especially Xavier and Magneto) better than Kinberg.

^^^ You're right. This makes no sense.
What does Psylocke being in a trailer have to do with Kinberg misleading people? Some of you aren't acting rational with your hate of the guy.

psyonic clearly stated "They" and not just Kinberg. Don't be so paranoid and protective of Kinberg.

 

[hurrikane2]

So this forum has become the SIMON KINBERG hate forum!!!!
Did yall know his died died a couple of weeks ago?? do you even care??

 

[2kt09]

So this forum has become the SIMON KINBERG hate forum!!!!
Did yall know his died died a couple of weeks ago?? do you even care??

condolences...he died last year though

 

[squeekness]

I didn't know he died at all. ...or I forgot.

 

[Link]

His father died a year ago, doubt that should matter much to the conversation now. I would definitely enjoy if we had something to discuss about the film beyond ****ting on Kinberg.

 

[psyonic]

^^^ You're right. This makes no sense.
What does Psylocke being in a trailer have to do with Kinberg misleading people? Some of you aren't acting rational with your hate of the guy.

 

[fobi]

Guess the Disney but out talks have dried up. Back to business as usual! Lol