X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - Part 5

Discussion in 'X-Men: Dark Phoenix' started by Thread Manager, Nov 9, 2017.

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  1. psylockolussus Disco Mutant

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    It isn't bad for movie goers, some people say that there are too much quantity and not enough quality. Its only bad if you're a Fox fan or an employee of them potentially losing a job because of the acquisition of another company.

    And even if Marvel already had X-Men and Ff, Disney is still the best choice to acquire Fox. And you act as if Disney would fire all Fox employees after a merger. Like Marvel/Lucasfilm, they could continue the Fox banner and continue the films that they were making on which are all kinds of film. Obviously you didn't get a R 18 Cinderella movie because Disney the film studio (not the entire company) with the castle and fireworks fanfare caters to families more. But I highly doubt Fox would just be Disney 2.0.
     
    #101 psylockolussus, Nov 12, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
  2. The Infernal Mky Mk

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    I did ponder if the deal were happening that the MvC game could see X-men and Fantastic Four flood in as dlc or an ultimate edition. It could also explain why I'm hearing the FF may be returning to the comics. On the other hand I have some doubt as to the MvC leaks as they would have to had been in planning for some time and I'm not sure how long these talks have been going on for.


    He's the Barron Greenback to your Danger Mouse.
     
  3. EnDz0n3 Marvel Legend

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    Probably a good thing then? Magneto was not needed in X-men: Apocalypse. Definitely didn't need "yet another heel turn from him."

    Ditto Mystique.
     
    #103 EnDz0n3, Nov 12, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  4. kevork89 Registered

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    Fox or Disney. Honestly I don't care which studio makes these movies. What I do care about is great X-Men movies and that's what I want to see. End of the day Fox or Disney can easily F it up. We have seen Fox do that in the past. For me it isn't about which Studio is better. I've loved Fox comic films just as i've loved Disney and WB ones. This whole vs thing is getting a tad annoying. Everyone is having a measuring contest to see who's bigger.

    But we all care about a good film. That's all we want. For me it can be at Disney it can be at Fox I just want a good film. No one is denying that Fox haven't made good X-Men movies. Majority of their X-Men movies HAVE been good. I think people overreact a little bit sometimes. Apocalypse and Last Stand are their bad X-Men movies but X1, X2, First Class and DoFP have all been fantastic. And besides Origins everything else in the spin offs has been good.

    So I think people are a bit over dramatic about the hate towards certain things but that's besides the point. Yes it is true Fox haven't fully got the connection between these characters right and they have sacrificed great characters. This is why people want Marvel to get it back because we all know Marvel will get that right. Like I said i'm very much whatever happens happens here. I'm not going to get all excited that Marvel will get it and fight tooth and nail with people over it.

    But one things for sure. If it does stay at Fox I really wish they would listen to what the fans want. At the end of the day we just want to see a X-Men movie with Storm, Cyclops, Jean and whoever else being a family and saving the world. And for all we know we might get it in Dark Phoenix. I'm not on the I hate Simon Kinberg train just yet. Again the missteps are outweighed by whats good with the franchise but Dark Phoenix will be that deciding factor into most people's feelings and opinions on the matter.
     
  5. jaymes_e06 Registered

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    Thank you for your balanced and well thought out post kevork99. I agree with it all.:up:
     
  6. EnDz0n3 Marvel Legend

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    Funnily enough Kinberg has been directly involved as writer in those very movies you've said were bad. Sole Screenplay credits on the former and busted lying to fans on a message board on the latter.

    And unlike DOFP, he's left on his own with Dark Phoenix.

    So it's easy to see that people are apprehensive about letting him giving it a go for another time. If you're still left with trying to decide how Kinberg is as a writer all I'll say then is..."Fool me once..."

    I've said in the past I don't care about which studio the movies eventually end up with. X2 remains my favourite comic book movie, possibly favorite movie.

    Unfortunately at Fox there's a high probability Kinberg will still be involved in every single one of them going forward. Probably as sole writer on the main X-men films. That's the last thing I (and many people) want. So in that case, I have more hope for the X-men (and not just Xavier, Magneto and Mystique) with the MCU.
     
  7. Johnny-Oh "You got heart, kid"

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    Which is why I don't understand why Fox is giving him that much control, he was also heavily involved in the disaster that was Fant4stic.
     
  8. JP Smelly

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    Yeah, I've been a die-hard fan of this series since 2000. I've defended every up and down, and given countless reasons why the series has thrived, and continues to (for the most part) at FOX. X2, DoFP, Logan, and Deadpool are some of the best cb films.


    But it also looks like Kinberg is not going anywhere under FOX. So, in that regard, if the only way to remove him is for the X-Men to go into the MCU, then so be it. Will we get movies like Deadpool and Logan? Projects that look as cool and different as New Mutants? Probably not! But having consistently ok films is better than having amazing spinoffs mixed in with horrendous films.
     
  9. psylockolussus Disco Mutant

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    I just see a bigger potential with Disney owning the film rights, a Clean slate for the X-Men, no more younger version, better production values, a film that feels like the X-Men and the merchandise... As for New Mutants, Deadpool, Gambit solo and X-23.. I don't really care if there's no future for them as long as I get good uncanny X-Men films that are faithful to the comics and they get the dynamics of the team right. New Mutants of Boone hardly looks like the source material. Gambit should just be in the X-Men. I don't need a Wolverine 2.0 film. The only lost would be Deadpool which they also reboot. I am not even mentioning X-Force as Fox's Domino looks nothing like the Domino from the comics.
     
    #109 psylockolussus, Nov 13, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  10. kevork89 Registered

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    :gngl:
     
  11. psylockolussus Disco Mutant

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    Kinberg is just the achilles heel of this franchise. Fantastic Four and the X-Men are my top two favorite Marvel properties. Fantastic Four bombed in 2015 and became a critical failure. While not only the sequel for Dofp featured the cast that I didn't want to see, it sucked big time and wasted my favorite X-Men character and they are still bringing back the cast that I don't want to see ( after they underperformed at the box office) for ankther sequel. Kinberg is responsible for these failures/horrid outcomes.

    And though Deadpool and Logan might have been good, I don't really care about those two compare to F4/XM.
     
  12. kevork89 Registered

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    He must have some major dirt on the higher ups lol.
     
  13. jaymes_e06 Registered

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    Or he's just gives one hell of a humdinger.:o
     
  14. Weather Witch Registered

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  15. psylockolussus Disco Mutant

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    Same here! MCU isn't perfect and is quite Corny when it comes to their unnecessary jokes but at least they treat heroes better, the costumes/vfx are better, while they have yet to feature a villain that has overstayed compare to Magneto, Strykrr and Raven in these X-Men films.

    And I doubt they would settle making lower budgeted films for X-Men as well. New Mutants/Logan/Deadpool were all made under $100 budget and I am pretty sure it was because Fox wanted it that way in order to profit more and they wouldn't profit much if they have a budget over $100m to $150 million especially after how F4/Apocalypse performed.
     
  16. Lip Registered

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    I guess that's it.

    I mean, people are really tired of this formula and it has nothing to do with tone. It's how they use the characters. And after 18 years waiting for nothing, people - like me - are desperate to see a change.

    I think the excitement of Disney possibly taking over the X-Men comes from this desperation to see a change mixed with the realization that Kinberg and this creative team isn't going anywhere. FF was a bomb and he was still attached to a possible sequence.

    If Disney indeed take over the X-Men, I'll embrace the change with open arms because you what? I'll take a light and funny X-Men movie (like the animated series was) where the characters are treated with respect, women are a allowed to talk and minorities are more than merely decorations, than a "dark dramatic" movie about intolerance where women and minorities are not portrayed as full human beings.
     
  17. First Avenger Registered

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    Yup. Fox has done a pretty good job with X-Men, what is unforgivable is their treatment of the Fantastic 4 and how they keep giving Kinberg work. And there is also plenty of improvement for the team aspect of the X-Men and the characterization of some of the main members like Cyclops,Storm,Rogue.
     
  18. Charzhin0 Registered

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    Regarding Kinberg I know his history on these films is hit and miss (mostly miss) but if anyone can know first hand on what works and what doesn't within the XCU by now, then its surely Kinberg himself. For everyones sake, I hope he recognises what direction works best for Xmen and hopefully hes listened to the fan criticisms and implemented the positives into Dark Phoenix. But it is his first ever film with no influence at all by Singer, so it is worrisome. I just hope we atleast get more screentime for Cyclops and Jean and give characters like Jubilee, Storm some proper subplots and not just background characters! And also hopeful for improved costumes from the end of Apocalypse and a narrative that is fun but serious like First Class. If we get that bare miniumum I will be happy for now as I do prefer that Xmen stay at Fox.

    And Im definitely looking forward to a Solo Gambit movie the most.
     
  19. GuestStar2004 Registered

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    FOX trust him, its as simple as that.

    Well he wasn't left alone with X3 or apocalypse and he also wasn't left along with DOFP since that movie had the same director as Apocalypse.

    I was listening to a podcast with Jeff Goldsmith a couple of weeks ago who interviewed simon kinberg back in 2016 and he found out some early script details about the climax of apocalypse

    1. Originally when mystique was trying to talk some sense into Eric she was gonna talk to him like a soldier because that was the manner in which Eric has always encouraged her to be, and that was changed because they felt the film was meant to be about family and wanted to get that vibe across.

    2. Quicksilver was meant to give a much bigger hint to Eric that he was his son by after he and mystique try and talk eric down and fail Peter was to sing the song that eric sang to his daughter earlier in the movie which Eric would then asks him where he heard that song, to which peter would reply that his mum heard it from his dad and used to sing it to him as a child.

    That was changed because Singer apparently felt eric shouldn't find out that peter was his son because he felt they should stick to concluding relationships set up over the trilogy and there was also a concern it would hurt the tension of the climax

    Simon Kinberg was apparently in 2 minds about that because while he got where Singer was coming from he still felt it could have worked.

    3. the exchange between eric and apocalypse after eric betrays him was changed from

    Apocalypse: What are you doing?!
    Magneto: Doing what i couldn't do before. protect my Family!

    to

    Apocalypse: You betray me?
    Magneto: No. I betrayed them.

    The line was changed because mystique and quicksilver got the family lines trying to talk him down.

    I personally think the original ideas sounded better but changes happened for right or for wrong reasons like with an movie.
     
    #119 GuestStar2004, Nov 13, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  20. Sithborg The Pink Devil

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    Studio politics. Same reason why Orci was set to make his directoral debut with Star Trek 3. Trank would still be able to get work if he acted professionally during FF.
     
  21. Charzhin0 Registered

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    Those Kinberg lines sound better than what we got, especially Magnetos response to Apocalypse. Not sure about Quicksilver signing though, that may have been tonally awkward. Kinberg can clearly write good scenes but his focus isnt as strong as needed to keep the overall movie consistent.
     
  22. Nerial Hopeless Sci-Fi Geek

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    None of these would have bothered me either way. I didn't care whether or not Magneto found out about Peter, and the "No, I betrayed them," line was better, anyway, than Kinberg's line.

    I have a problem with Apocalypse due to the same problem with X3, and that was the script. In Apocalypse specifically, the writing treats the audience like we're idiots.

    1) The WHOLE WORLD has officially accepted mutants? And the only outliers to this are illegal organizations like cage fighting? We can't even get certain places on Earth to accept women...but every place is a-ok with a blue guy teleporting around a mall? No.

    2) Magneto killed more people than the main villain. But because we see the destruction porn at a distance, we're too stupid to know that those dots flying off the bridges families in cars who died because Erik was having a bad day. This ruined the character for me.

    3) The characters reverted to their FC status. Charles being naive in FC made sense--no one knew how humans would react to mutants and he's had a sheltered upbringing. 50-year-old Xavier would know better. He's a telepath, for Christ's sake, with mutant children who have come from different upbringings. And Erik...God. Fassbender did his best, but it's like having Bruce Wayne lose his parents, become Batman, be Batman in movie 2, and then--for no reason at all--decide not to be Batman in movie 3, have a family who--once again--is murdered and then repeats the same story arc as before. Rinse and repeat?--so, so unoriginal.

    Bottom line, Kinberg did a great job with DOFP. The reviews were excellent, the box office was almost as good as The Winter Soldier, and it was well received by most fans. But when he can't conjure up enough conflict, he attempts to artificially create it by killing off characters and thinking that complex = depth and death = drama.

    Him having total control of Dark Phoenix is just terrifying. I really hope I'm wrong here.
     
  23. jaymes_e06 Registered

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    Your entire first point is pretty misinformed when you take into account your statement is to to help integrate X-Men in th MCU who have many loved superheroes who look crazy (Hulk). It really falls apart when you can have loved Avengers and hated X-Men.
     
  24. SumT Registered

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    how can some fans really believe Kinberg learned from his past mistakes when he repeated the same mistakes all over again in Apocalypse?

    he underused, wasted and killed characters in X3. 10 years later, he underused, wasted and killed characters in XMA, leading to critics and fans dissapointment once again.

    How exactly has he learned anything then? :whatever:
     
  25. jaymes_e06 Registered

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    Well the whole reason he's making XDP is because he messed up on X3. He clearly wants to make amends for how things turned out. And to be fair he wasn't the only one to blame for some of the bad decisions. He has his terrible moments from what we've seen so far but it has always been committee projects (Apocalypse included, yes).

    I reserve my judgement until I see more because we've never seen what his sole vision looks like as Fox has normally had a "too many cooks" approach to see his specific vision clearly.
     
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