Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - Part 9

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[Cktopl33]

Actually, it was Hutch Parker that said that.

Kinberg admitted:


Which to me is the wrong takeaway or he is simply not being honest about the issues with the film. You can make a great X-Men film with action and huge stakes. They simply failed to deliver a good film.

The visual effects and action choreography were weak. The Apocalypse character looked awful. There were still many wallpaper characters with few lines and flimsy motivations. None of these issues have to do with choosing to deviate from the formula a little bit and make a film with just a bit more action than the other installments.

I'm sure we will see a statement at some point about how they considered using the classic costumes for DP but chose not to since they were poorly received in Apocalypse - Yea fans have a problem with shoddy work. Not with the classic designs from comics or action sequences.

I think his main point was that the action should be driven by the characters, which he said they're trying to do with Dark Phoenix (supposedly to be the biggest action visual effects x-men film to date according to them). One thing Kinberg is doing differently is spending more time on the visual effects this time around. The film Logan was more character driven but some of the action sequences in Apocalypse, aside from bad choreography, did not connect emotionally with the characters or audience. Which resulted in a 'meh' response.

Some people need to be realistic about costume designs. For example, expecting classic costume designs from the 80s DP comic for when this film is set in the 90s is just unrealistic. Storm's classic costume design, which is almost like a bathing suit, is simply not going to work for these type of movies. I liked her horsemen design in Apocalypse, but the team costumes at the end still looked terrible. That's the only thing those costumes at the end Apocalypse reminded me of....cheap silly cosplay. Even the MCU costumes were changed around a bit to make them look more relevant and less cosplay.

 

[Cktopl33]

Originally Posted by Drexelhand
Honestly, I'm optimistic but one thing I can't deny is that while Kinberg may be one of the top ten producers in the world right now - he's not a very good screenwriter. Bryan Singer said in an interview how he had to have Days of Future Past's screenplay changed to emphasize dialogue. Apocalypse' script was rewritten at the last minute to lower the budget and rewrites went into production. The fact that they managed to get the movie out on time shows Kinberg's skill as a producer - it also shows his flaws as a writer.

I don't have a hate ***** for Kinberg like Psylockossus does, but one thing that user and I agree on is Kinberg shouldn't be directing this. Hopefully it'll be good - I'm not expecting it to be terrible, but I'm expecting something average, like better than The Last Stand and around the level of The First Avenger or The Dark World.

I don't think that shows his flaws as a writer. I don't think Singer was referring to more need for spoken words. What he said concerning the draft on Days of Future Past:

But no, it was always tight, the structure of ideas were tight, the original treatment was pretty tight. The movie is coming in it seems at about the time, and the last 25 minutes of it are just boom-boom-boom-boom, stuff happens that just builds to a thing.

What Singer said about the dialogue for that movie:

This is a more serious film than First Class, the characters we encounter them in very dark places, we have fun with that. It’s hard to see, don’t try to give them too much to say, just make what they say really strong. Like Michael Fassbender and I were talking about this the other day and he was just like ‘Give me less, but give me the idea,’ and with these actors when they say the idea it’s very strong.

What Kinberg said regarding the dialogue in DOFP:

We have a lot of drama in this movie, I would say there’s more dramatic, face-to-face ****’s-not-exploding dialogue scenes in this film than in any other X-Men movie. In fact, I know there are, even more than First Class, which was a pretty dramatic film. So that will slow the movie down a little bit, because those dialogue scenes, there are a bunch of four-five minute dialogue scenes on a film like this. It’s a long period, you have eight minutes before you have to blow something up again, so I think it will have the feel of, I hope, a more sophisticated, mature movie, which maybe can support a two-plus hour run time, but I don’t think about it (run time) when we’re shooting.

What I think I find more interesting is that Kinberg knows more about the comics than any of the directors who actually directed these x-men movies. So I'm interested to see how he does with this when given full control. When he was talking about writing Days of Future Past, he was the one who actually brought up the story of the comic:

And the interesting thing about the future period is, originally it was conceived not as Days Of Future Past, it was because Matthew and I in working on the movie felt like it needed to have bookends that were Patrick and Ian. They just were going to be stand-alone scenes that weren’t going to be connected to the past, there wasn’t going to be any time travel. And then, one day, I was with Matthew and I said, “Have you read Days Of Future Past.” He said, “I think I know that. I’ve seen the cartoon…” Like Bryan, actually, he was really raised on the X-Men cartoons, and he asked me for more details. All of a sudden it was, “Oh ****… we should be telling this story.” But the thing that immediately was apparent was, can we make that movie? Because they had to make all new deals with Ian and Patrick and Halle and all these people, and Hugh, and can we afford to make this movie or is it prohibitively expensive? And the studio figured out a way to make it and gave us a healthy budget so we were able to, but it wasn’t Days Of Future Past.

 

[psylockolussus]

Kinberg, a top ten producer. Uh huh.

 

[Lip]

I think Sunfire was replaced by Lamar Johnson's character.

We would've heard through the trades of an asian actor being cast, no? I mean originally it was a central role in the casting sheets.

It could be the cast. There was also a series of characters apparently related to Hellfire. Who know?

I think Lamar could be playing a character who's originally white in the comics.

 

[RalphieRandy]

They said that Sophie has been studying schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder and how to switch between "crazy" and sane. I wonder if she'll use her American dialect for Jean and her English one for the Phoenix. I think it would be interesting seeing her jump between the two as she's losing control. Especially when Kean and Phoenix are talking to....um....each other. Or themselves....

 

[psylockolussus]

It could be the cast. There was also a series of characters apparently related to Hellfire. Who know?

I think Lamar could be playing a character who's originally white in the comics.

He could be playing Sunfire.Fox doesn't give a damn if the actor looks the part. They just don't care about that. Like look at Domino, Cecilia Reyes, Sunspot...

 

[Frankeh]

Some people need to be realistic about costume designs. For example, expecting classic costume designs from the 80s DP comic for when this film is set in the 90s is just unrealistic.

As unrealistic as getting costumes from 90's X-Men era in an 80's X-Men movie (Apocalypse)?

What people need to be realistic about is that costume design is generally subpar in these movies, accurate or not.

 

[Lip]

He could be playing Sunfire.Fox doesn't give a damn if the actor looks the part. They just don't care about that. Like look at Domino, Cecilia Reyes, Sunspot...

There are huge differences between Domino and the whitewashing case in New Mutants.

I don't mind cast the adds and includes minorities, such as Nick Fury, Domino, Blink or others. I do mind cast that continue to exclude minorities.

 

[Erik Lensherr]

boring

 

[Tymminator]

I don’t mind the look they have for Domino, I am going to wait for the movie to see the execution of her character. Overall, I’m just really not worried about Deadpool.

Re: this movie though, those previous pics that we looked at did remind me of X3, and someone mentioned maybe Mystique gets taken out in a similar fashion that Xavier did in X3 and the Grey household...not sure how I feel about that only because it feels like a retread of sorts.

I know Cudmore said he could not say who he was playing, but I bet it is Colossus anyways.

 

[Lip]

Colossus will appear in Deadpool 2 this year. Fox has always been a mess, but I don't think they'll be using two different versions of Colossus in the same year.

Colossus isn't Caliban.

 

[X-Maniac]

I think his main point was that the action should be driven by the characters, which he said they're trying to do with Dark Phoenix (supposedly to be the biggest action visual effects x-men film to date according to them). One thing Kinberg is doing differently is spending more time on the visual effects this time around. The film Logan was more character driven but some of the action sequences in Apocalypse, aside from bad choreography, did not connect emotionally with the characters or audience. Which resulted in a 'meh' response.

Well, the problem is that characters who ended up in exciting action sequences - Storm, Beast, Psylocke, Angel - were NOT developed well enough to add emotional stakes. That's down to Singer and Kinberg.

Also, Magneto ended up floating passively in a forcefield bubble at the end. I love Magneto's forcefield bubbles from the animated series and comics but they are used far more dynamically and dramatically in those mediums.

Then we had Magneto projecting metal shrapnel at Apocalypse, which was fine except Fassbender was dangling rather awkwardly in the air for that sequence, with his helmet sitting oddly. And most of the scene was obscured by too much black smoke which we presume was the metal being vaporised as it struck Apocalypse's own forcefield.

Nothing too appalling but some ideas didn't work as well as they should. Storm's dialogue explaining why she sided with Apoc was cut, Psylocke had no real character at all, Angel was just an angry alcoholic and Beast has no arc at all. Whose fault is all that? Some of the blame must come down on Kinberg.

Some people need to be realistic about costume designs. For example, expecting classic costume designs from the 80s DP comic for when this film is set in the 90s is just unrealistic. Storm's classic costume design, which is almost like a bathing suit, is simply not going to work for these type of movies. I liked her horsemen design in Apocalypse, but the team costumes at the end still looked terrible. That's the only thing those costumes at the end Apocalypse reminded me of....cheap silly cosplay. Even the MCU costumes were changed around a bit to make them look more relevant and less cosplay.

Poor costume design (and bad wigs) has been part of this series since the beginning, sadly.

No one expects Storm in a bathing suit and thigh-high hooker boots, lol. But they can't even get her cape right. It is supposed to have a wing-like shape when she has outstretched arms. They need a cape with more stiffened fabric for the scenes when she is airborne/flying. It can't be that difficult.

 

[Drexelhand]

Kinberg, a top ten producer. Uh huh.

Which I have proven to you. But your point always this in return: "BUT I DIDN'T LIKE HIS MOVIES SO HE'S NOT GOOD!" Great job, I don't ****ing like his movies either mostly.

I don't think that shows his flaws as a writer. I don't think Singer was referring to more need for spoken words. What he said concerning the draft on Days of Future Past:

What Singer said about the dialogue for that movie: What Kinberg said regarding the dialogue in DOFP:

What I think I find more interesting is that Kinberg knows more about the comics than any of the directors who actually directed these x-men movies. So I'm interested to see how he does with this when given full control. When he was talking about writing Days of Future Past, he was the one who actually brought up the story of the comic:

Having seen the draft Kinberg prepared for Vaughn before Singer came aboard, your interpretation of what they said is a bit skewed. The dialogue in the movie is much more streamlined, way less heavy handed and expositiony and the film is far less grounded in reality, but more the emotions of the characters. Kinberg's original draft read like something out of a 1963 X-Men comic.

 

[Tymminator]

Colossus will appear in Deadpool 2 this year. Fox has always been a mess, but I don't think they'll be using two different versions of Colossus in the same year.

Colossus isn't Caliban.

At first I thought that as well,but I can see Fox letting the Deadpool crew use their own Colossus as they are kind of their own thing and Cudmore with the FoX-Men as Colossus for that Story.

Yeah, I know that sounds nuts, but I can see them do that.

.

.

 

[2kt09]

They've also made clear that there's no intent for Deadpool's Colossus to power down.

 

[psylockolussus]

There are huge differences between Domino and the whitewashing case in New Mutants.

I don't mind cast the adds and includes minorities, such as Nick Fury, Domino, Blink or others. I do mind cast that continue to exclude minorities.

The thing with Domino is they are catering to the actress not eXactly the character to the point that it no longer looks like Domino from the comics. Like since when Domino had afro hair and dark skin? Never. They even changed the color of the eye patch.

 

[Lip]

Well, I don't mind that at all. And get ready because, if Homecoming is any indication, I bet once Marvel Studios get the X-Men back they'll do exactly the same thing with many characters. And I can't wait for it.

 

[1627523]

Well, I don't mind that at all. And get ready because, if Homecoming is any indication, I bet once Marvel Studios get the X-Men back they'll do exactly the same thing with many characters. And I can't wait for it.

LOL u want the x-men groveling to the avengers. Wouldnt it be funny if the x-men get all their suits from Tony and then bother him about joining the Avengers. Personally i want the MCU x-men to keep the same dramatic tone and themes from the fox movies, but share more screentime between the x-men instead wolverine, prof x, magneto, and mystique. If they do that than im a happy camper.

 

[Lip]

 

[The Guard]

They're likely setting up some sort of Avengers VS X-Men/Civil War II thing...they're not going to be able to resist pitting the two groups against each other at some point.

 

[X-Maniac]

Well, I don't mind that at all. And get ready because, if Homecoming is any indication, I bet once Marvel Studios get the X-Men back they'll do exactly the same thing with many characters. And I can't wait for it.

I really hope Tony Stark isn't the only source of X-Men technology.

There's Beast, Forge, Magneto and even Reed Richards who are also very good with technology.

When the new X-Men arrived in 1975, Xavier said Reed Richards had designed their costumes from 'unstable molecules.'

No need to keep shoehorning RDJ into every movie.

 

[Lip]

I'm still very confused about how my post about diversity turned into a convesation about technology in the MCU.

 

[Kuwolski]

I'm still very confused about how my post about diversity turned into a convesation about technology in the MCU.

It was such a ridiculous leap to make.

Diversity = grovelling to Stark

Subversive ax grinding .