Discussion in 'Captain America: The Winter Soldier' started by herolee10, Mar 10, 2013.
This is my new "double standards" t-shirt.
This conflict is perfect for making Natasha deal with her own origin and training. Someone to rescue and protect and get betrayed by. So necessary.
I think anyone can play Red Guardian really, but I'd like to see him in the film as the main antagonist. Get into Natasha's heart a bit. Especially if she thinks he's dead. I'd love to steal Crimson Dynamo from Iron Man too, since IM kinda already dealt with him in Whiplash.
I think the biggest challenge for a Black Widow film will be adding the superhero flair in a creative and surprising way to delineate it from whatever spy girl films we all know about. Perhaps a supporting role for Hulk. Perhaps some hard core spy-fi.
It doesn't mean new developments, it just means they've done some development on it before, which is true. It seems like its trying to assure people rather than announce any actual intention. It's clear the course they've charted for her is as a supporting character.
This must be the "how to recover from a savage beating" lesson.
Here's the problem with superheroine movies from a studio perspective: why do I need a great uniquely talented scriptwriter and a great director for a film just to make it successful? With other types of characters, that combo is a box office slam dunk, like Avengers, or Inception or Star Trek. But you need Avengers talent just to make Black Widow successful, why not just throw her in the Captain America franchise and use your Avengers-level talent on Avengers where it'll make you more money? Black Widow is more popular now than she ever would have been if Whedon was on Widow instead of Avengers. So it works out for the character too.
A female film needs something significant 'going for it' in order for it to make financial and marketing sense to put the top talent on it, which we all seem to agree is necessary to make a great female-led film, even though it isn't to make a great male-led film. For Frozen, you have the whole Disney machine, in addition to it being Pixar influenced, so you know, they have the talent to make mute robots interesting, and they are on hand for every 3D Disney princess, regardless. That's a huge pair of boons doh for Frozen.
The Hunger Games is not just riding on the popularity of a book series with tons of good word of mouth before anyone is cast, but it's riding on a series of series of popular films from book series, from Harry Potter through Twilight. And it's not just the popularity of the book series, it's that you already have a well written female characters, so you don't have to be one of the few guys who can write a good female character in order to make a good movie out of her story.
This is on top of there being almost nothing going against these films, that they are extremely unique in the marketplace made by up and coming actors of excessive talent. They deal with the 'girl action movies suck' issue by not being action movie franchises. Catching fire ratcheted up the action, but HG1 only had what, two short fight scenes?
Black Widow, all she has going for her is the Marvel Machine and her Avengers connection. Beyond that, she's just Alias/Salt/Nikita/Kim Possible which is just a Female Bond/Bourne/Bauer/etc. She doesn't bring anything significantly new to the table beyond super powers she herself doesn't have. That's something that has to be overcome, that takes a talented writer... a writer who probably would meet with more success and popularity writing Dr. Strange, even if he is one of the few guys who can write a good heroine.
Widow doesn't have the comics going for her, despite being a very old character, she doesn't have any great solo stories to her credit. It's the same problem Wonder Woman has, honestly. Been around a long time, and been very supportive the whole while.
This is not to say they shouldn't try or they can't do it. But let's not assume that Marvel Studios can do what Frozen or Hunger Games did, much less end up with the same results.
I just want equal opportunity oogling. That's all.
Give me gratuitous shirtless Evans/Hems/Hiddleston/RDJ
and y'all dudes (and some women) can have ScarJo/Smulders/etc
Actually, remember the movie Under The Skin with ScarJo's nude scene is going to come out the same day as CA:TWS. So, there you go.
Oh my God you can see her shoulders. Someone get that girl a parka!
here's a gratuitous Paul Rudd butt shot. http://cdn-static.denofgeek.com/sit...les/article_main_half/public/ant_man_lead.jpg
(disclaimer: this may be stunt-butt)
Stunt-butt is the worst.
When discussing the possibilty of a BW solo movie, kinda funny to think that's in the US the prospect of a female lead action movie is still considered a huge risk ...whereas in some other countries, action movies with female lead is really nothing out of the ordinary.
Think Asia for example...or hell, even Bollywood. Granted the movie coming out of the states is going to involve much more cash budget, but with more foreign territories opening up...why not ? These kind of movie may not set the BO in the states on fire, but they can still be succesfull in foreign markets where these kind of movies are more acceptable.
Amen to equal opportunity ogling sister!
Haha! That movie looks awful though.
That's exactly how I feel about it. We (straight women and gay men) get plenty of fan service moment in Marvel films, much more than the straight guys and lesbians do. We'll continue to be served healthy portions of beefcake for the foreseeable future. Some people complained that The Avengers was a sausagefest, but not me. I sausage.
Black Widow is the *only* female character in the MCU who can even remotely be accused of being sexy. If, god forbid, "worst" case scenario, Wanda shows up in her Ultimates costume baring her (gasp) midriff, then we "dirty old/young men" will have exactly 1.5 "sexpots" to ogle.
Mountains meet molehills. This moral outrage has plenty of application to the comic book threads, and even to the X-Men movie threads. It has *none* in the MCU.
No just different. Bale had more of a bulk build for BB, but Jackman usually goes for the more cut look.
They're not that far apart. The differences in their physiques really have more to do with diet.
And dont forget that Bale was coming off The Machinist.
Actually...Diet goes for BOTH of them. If you want to look like either of them,75% of your workout planning will be about your diet
Thats what I said... just not very clearly I guess.
Black Widow should be sexualised more. My problem is she isn't sexualised enough. No-one should not want to see Scarlett more naked, man or woman, unless you're part blind.
Depending on whether or not he survives The Winter Soldier, do we think Bucky Barnes could be a possibility to show up in a solo Black Widow film?
That would be pretty awesome if he did.
But with his abilities Bucky would outshine Natasha, so he couldn't do much more than a cameo or people would wonder why he wasn't the star.
^If you make Winter Soldier unstable no one will want him as the lead.
Pretty sure Nat could still handle herself.
Is there any outrage over Mystique and Rogue in the X-Men forum? I don't read those threads so I can't gauge the reactions to the images of those characters among fans. Personally, I find it much more problematic that Mystique was stripped of her clothing for the film universe, where she had never gone naked in the comics. At least Natasha wears her traditional costume with a few movie tweaks except when she's in civilian clothes.
Natasha wanting to save Yelena while Yelena wants to surpass Natasha makes a good hook. Yelena and Natasha would have to fight each other at some point, but I don't want Yelena to be the villain of the story.
Alexi Shosatkov, the Red Guardian (though not called that, as the Cold War's over, grandpa) would be interesting as a the main antagonist. Maybe he and Natasha knew each other when she was working for whoever she first worked for. As superhero movies do a lot of "character mashing" maybe he will become the Crimson Dynamo in the climax.
Adding "superhero flair" to a Black Widow movie could be Russia trying to start their own Avengers, called Winter's Guard. A team in case a portal opens and an alien invasion happens in Moscow makes sense, with the fears of "Superheroes are created to fight World War III." This actually gives a moral weight to a "superhero spy-fi story."
There are a lot of Marvel Russian characters. Titanium Man, Darkstar, Vanguard, Starlight, Ursa Major, and Gremlin. As superhero movies rarely use codenames anyway, they would probably use their "real" names.
I'd like to see Name of the Rose by Marjorie Liu serve as the basis of the story.
Perhaps with elements from Deadly Origin. Minus the creepy dirty uncle vibes, and the gross STD metaphor stuff.
Red Guardian could be one of Widow's mentors/handlers.
Maybe I'm the only one who still likes Cold War era tropes (everybody seems cool with abandoning them for TWS)
Please, explain the double standards?