Zack Snyder Confirms Ending!

[Gilpesh]

I'm not trying to make the GN look stupid, I just didn't like the psychic angle, so I've tried to rationalize it out. I probably shouldn't do that, but what the heck.

I missed the part where you had outlined that. My bad.

It is a little off in the book... but then again, Manhattan through some strange ability figures out how to bring himself back from nothing. So psychics (rare cases) in Watchmen fell into my area of suspension of disbelief. So I didn't see a problem with it.

 

[BestGirl]

I missed the part where you had outlined that. My bad.

No problem.

It is a little off in the book... but then again, Manhattan through some strange ability figures out how to bring himself back from nothing. So psychics (rare cases) in Watchmen fell into my area of suspension of disbelief. So I didn't see a problem with it.

True, though Manhattan's abilities always belonged to the realm of science or pseudoscience. The mystical angle left me me scratching my head. Like I said to the Guard, I'd be okay with it if psychics were unquestionably established as being real earlier. Much stranger things have happened in comics but Watchmen had tried so hard to establish a sense of realism up to that point. Maybe the solution is as you say to believe that there are, in fact, a small number of genuine psychics in the world. Paranormal phenomena aren't entirely out of the realm of possibility, even on this planet.

1st thing well since HE said it it's got top be true (people have to stop giving him so much credit about this, he's no Kirby) also I realize that most people decry typing and thus any other description (even the simple word octopus) is too tedious, but I think that in our laziness we created a term that implies a lack of seriousness and thus kind of end the argument before it begins (note the thing about the Israelis if the ideolouges from both sides came together to debate terminology become important, if the iranians agree to be called "anti-semites" or "jihadis" than the Israelis have already won, if the israelis agree to be called zionists tha vice-versa, may be I'm just the nitpickinist man in the world, but it matters to me.)

You made a similar point to this earlier and I didn't understand you then, either. Could you explain what this means?

 

[Gilpesh]

True, though Manhattan's abilities always belonged to the realm of science or pseudoscience. The mystical angle left me me scratching my head. Like I said to the Guard, I'd be okay with it if psychics were unquestionably established as being real earlier. Much stranger things have happened in comics but Watchmen had tried so hard to establish a sense of realism up to that point. Maybe the solution is as you say to believe that there are, in fact, a small number of genuine psychics in the world. Paranormal phenomena aren't entirely out of the realm of possibility, even on this planet.

Well, I just think that Ozy finding the one true psychic in the entire world, an easy possibility to buy into. Especially because if you really think about it, Ozy was practically psychic himself and he was only smarter than everyone. That way even if psychics aren't completely real in the world of Watchmen, Ozy just knew what type of brain to use and just what to do to it to make it a good transmiter of the 'psychic' wave.

 

[BestGirl]

Well, I just think that Ozy finding the one true psychic in the entire world, an easy possibility to buy into. Especially because if you really think about it, Ozy was practically psychic himself and he was only smarter than everyone. That way even if psychics aren't completely real in the world of Watchmen, Ozy just knew what type of brain to use and just what to do to it to make it a good transmiter of the 'psychic' wave.

IIRC, the psychic's brain was supposed to transmit images and a story related to the alien to other sensitives throughout the world. I think Veidt's idea was that if psychics all over the world began seeing the same things pertaining to the alien people would be more inclined to believe it was a real extraterrestrial and not just some creature created in a lab.

BTW, please tell me your sig isn't an a real quote...

 

[Gilpesh]

IIRC, the psychic's brain was supposed to transmit images and a story related to the alien to other sensitives throughout the world. I think Veidt's idea was that if psychics all over the world began seeing the same things pertaining to the alien people would be more inclined to believe it was a real extraterrestrial and not just some creature created in a lab.

Yeah, I think the problem is... that wasn't part of his plan. His plan was more local to the people in New York seeing those images... and in him trying to paint the picture of how bad it was going to be for those people, he off-hand had mentioned that sensitives (not like actual psychics which would say that there's millions of psychics in the world that exist and his plan depends on them) would have nightmares for weeks.

So instead of Veidt saying there are psychics all over the world, he was just mentioning what he was doing was so bad, that anyone who is any more receptive than the usual person... would feel it.

BTW, please tell me your sig isn't an a real quote...

Parody of the Frost/Nixon trailer. I had been watching Ron Howard on the Daily Show and Howard had made the joke that if anyone was going to do what Frost did to Nixon, to Bush, it would be Jon Stewart.

So, ta-da.

 

[Katsuro]

True, though Manhattan's abilities always belonged to the realm of science or pseudoscience.

Um... the guy can see the future. He can also move things with his mind, and teleport. I'd believe some small level of mind-reading before either of those.

I get what you're saying that it comes out of nowhere though. I have no problem believing it in the context of the story, but it is weird that it's not brought up earlier.

 

[Shivsguy616]

I get what you're saying that it comes out of nowhere though. I have no problem believing it in the context of the story, but it is weird that it's not brought up earlier.

My point exactly.

 

[Everything boy]

What? The co-creator of the creature called it a cephalopod,and you're saying that we're giving him too much credit by believing it? THE CREATURE IS A CEPHALOPOD!!! LOOK AT IT IN THE COMIC!!! It's got tentacles. You yourself called a cthulhu beast! Cthulhu is a CEPHALOPOD!!!

If Jack Kirby drew Watchmen and said it was a cephalopod, you'd believe it!? Are you serious?

How the hell does it end the argument before it begins?

When I wrote that post I thought it was clear but I look at it now and see that it is tottally cryptic. I am only against the term "squid," cephalopod is the best word for it, I think that it gives it the dignity I'm looking for. As for the comment about Gibbons and Kirby I was trying, in what I now realize was a horribly roundabout and unintelligible way, express my frustration at the irony that in a lot of old comic book translations (Marvel stuff) it would be a little more significant to have the artist on board if the writer was distancing himself from the project(because back then alot of the stuff was drawn first and written later.) However on watchmen I think it's the other way around. In no way did I mean to say that Kirby is better than Gibbons (though I really don't care for either of them,) I just think that people put a little too much stock into the fact that Gibbons approves of this project, and no enough inthe fact that Kirby created nearly half of the marvel universe. I can't even begin to defend my use of "kind of" to try and get my self out of a phrase as silly as "ends the argument before it begins" all I can say is that I meant to call attention to the slight (admittedly very slight) anti-cephalopod leaN that I think the term "squid" creates.

 

[BestGirl]

When I wrote that post I thought it was clear but I look at it now and see that it is tottally cryptic. I am only against the term "squid," cephalopod is the best word for it, I think that it gives it the dignity I'm looking for. As for the comment about Gibbons and Kirby I was trying, in what I now realize was a horribly roundabout and unintelligible way, express my frustration at the irony that in a lot of old comic book translations (Marvel stuff) it would be a little more significant to have the artist on board if the writer was distancing himself from the project(because back then alot of the stuff was drawn first and written later.) However on watchmen I think it's the other way around. In no way did I mean to say that Kirby is better than Gibbons (though I really don't care for either of them,) I just think that people put a little too much stock into the fact that Gibbons approves of this project, and no enough inthe fact that Kirby created nearly half of the marvel universe. I can't even begin to defend my use of "kind of" to try and get my self out of a phrase as silly as "ends the argument before it begins" all I can say is that I meant to call attention to the slight (admittedly very slight) anti-cephalopod leaN that I think the term "squid" creates.

Okay, cool. I thought you were against the term "cephalopod" and I couldn't understand why. I still like the word "squid" though.

Sometimes I too think Gibbons' approval is overrated since he was involved with making the movie in some capacity. However, there are a few unbiased sources who have said that the movie, or at least the first part, is great, and that's good enough for me.

 

[Everything boy]

Okay, cool. I thought you were against the term "cephalopod" and I couldn't understand why. I still like the word "squid" though.

Sometimes I too think Gibbons' approval is overrated since he was involved with making the movie in some capacity. However, there are a few unbiased sources who have said that the movie, or at least the first part, is great, and that's good enough for me.

I know this is kinda philosophical but do you seriously believe you've heard from anyone that dosen't have a bias. Come on, one can easily observe that the pro and anti snyder camps are mainly motivated by 2 things: excitement (pro) and fear (anti). Niether of which make for unbiased conversation. It's hard to gauge whether or not this film will be any good, but you have got to understand that we feel that we have been burned in the past (the leauge, constantine, V just to name the Moore travesties) so forgive us for not having confidence until we see some spoiler-rific review by a fan of the book (and I'm talking about someone who read it [multiple times] before the whole ************** thing got big.) Otherwise we're scared ****less

 

[Everything boy]

Two things, first I would like to apologize for the fact that I didn't know that cursing was not cool on this forum.
Second is the fact that the main reason I am scared about this is because it is my belief that we got one chance at this people, this is a 12-issue series, there are no reboots, no other stories, its this and that's it. It seems to me that this projects commercial success is more (I want to say moore) closely linked to artistic success than most people would like to think. If (big if) this turns out to be a failure I think that the WB will never give another shot to this book which would be really sad.

 

[BestGirl]

I know this is kinda philosophical but do you seriously believe you've heard from anyone that dosen't have a bias. Come on, one can easily observe that the pro and anti snyder camps are mainly motivated by 2 things: excitement (pro) and fear (anti). Niether of which make for unbiased conversation. It's hard to gauge whether or not this film will be any good, but you have got to understand that we feel that we have been burned in the past (the leauge, constantine, V just to name the Moore travesties) so forgive us for not having confidence until we see some spoiler-rific review by a fan of the book (and I'm talking about someone who read it [multiple times] before the whole ************** thing got big.) Otherwise we're scared ****less

Here are some reviews that appear to be unbiased: http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=316257 As far as I can tell this is an audience that was not involved in the making of the movie.

 

[BestGirl]

Two things, first I would like to apologize for the fact that I didn't know that cursing was not cool on this forum.
Second is the fact that the main reason I am scared about this is because it is my belief that we got one chance at this people, this is a 12-issue series, there are no reboots, no other stories, its this and that's it. It seems to me that this projects commercial success is more (I want to say moore) closely linked to artistic success than most people would like to think. If (big if) this turns out to be a failure I think that the WB will never give another shot to this book which would be really sad.

Regardless of the quality of the movie I doubt we're going to get another Watchmen for a long time. Watchmen's a GN, one that the GA is not too familiar with, but once the movie's out everyone will know the details of its story. Before remaking it WB's going to have to wait until a new generation that doesn't know much about Watchmen reaches movie-going age. I'd bet on Watchmen being turned into a TV miniseries before it reaches the big screen again.

 

[CrimsonMist]

When I wrote that post I thought it was clear but I look at it now and see that it is tottally cryptic. I am only against the term "squid," cephalopod is the best word for it, I think that it gives it the dignity I'm looking for. As for the comment about Gibbons and Kirby I was trying, in what I now realize was a horribly roundabout and unintelligible way, express my frustration at the irony that in a lot of old comic book translations (Marvel stuff) it would be a little more significant to have the artist on board if the writer was distancing himself from the project(because back then alot of the stuff was drawn first and written later.) However on watchmen I think it's the other way around. In no way did I mean to say that Kirby is better than Gibbons (though I really don't care for either of them,) I just think that people put a little too much stock into the fact that Gibbons approves of this project, and no enough inthe fact that Kirby created nearly half of the marvel universe. I can't even begin to defend my use of "kind of" to try and get my self out of a phrase as silly as "ends the argument before it begins" all I can say is that I meant to call attention to the slight (admittedly very slight) anti-cephalopod leaN that I think the term "squid" creates.

ah, ok. I get what you mean. Sorry if i came off as a prick. I was tired and frustrated over some school work i had to do, and i just kinda went off. So again, my apologies.

Anyways, remember: We're amongst fans here. When you say "Squid" we know what you're talking about. It's just a fanboy geek thing, lol.

and how do you not care for Jack Kirby?!

 

[Everything boy]

Here are some reviews that appear to be unbiased: http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=316257 As far as I can tell this is an audience that was not involved in the making of the movie.

I'm sorry but are you serious? "appear to be unbiased" well one guy from the link say 22 min and hes already talking about "award-worthiness" the other say directly "exceeds the hype" sorry if that's not my definition of unbiased (but if you ask me there is no such thing as unbiased.) You seriously don't see excitement or fear seething from everyone interested? (those "reviews," if thats what you call a single paragraph about 22 minutes of a 2 1/2 hour movie, are just jumpin with excitement to me)

And to crimsonmist: I enjoy the things that Kirby wrote (either intentionally or inadvertently) but i gotta say the art does not impress me that much I look at fantastic four #10 and when I see reed's face I cringe not because he has the evil plotting face on but because the evil plotting face is drawn so badly

 

[Doctor Jones]

Psssst. Wait until the movie actually comes out.

 

[Everything boy]

Psssst. Wait until the movie actually comes out.

people keep on saying this but I don't think its enough to stop the excitement OR the fear, much less both, also if we all waited wouldn't there not be a SHH in the first place?

 

[BestGirl]

people keep on saying this but I don't think its enough to stop the excitement OR the fear, much less both, also if we all waited wouldn't there not be a SHH in the first place?

So much of what we've heard and seen so far has been positive, so what's your fear based on? The changed ending? Are you one of those people who believes that Watchmen is untranslatable to the big screen?

 

[Everything boy]

So much of what we've heard and seen so far has been positive, so what's your fear based on? The changed ending? Are you one of those people who believes that Watchmen is untranslatable to the big screen?

It a whole lot of things (no-one actually wants to hear them) but it is all summed up in "untranslatable by normal human filmmakers and unwatchable by general film audiences"

I also just thought it was funny that our positions are the way they are, if you're scared you are going to be asked why, but if you're excited nobody asks because everyone who knows about watchmen they go "of course they're excited that series was the bomb!"

Then again it all comes back to what I said days ago: I didn't like V

 

[SuperDaniel]

I just finished reading the Graphic Novel and I for one HATE the ending with the monster and alien invasion. It is totally ridiculous to me and doesn't feel like it is part of this serious story at all. I'm pretty sure i'll like the end in the movie more.

 

[November Rain]

the point is aliens are an outside unknown threat which seem capable of wiping out life as we know it.

they act as a serious unknown, serious enough to put petty differences aside in the short term.

veidt may not have stopped the holocaust but he postponed it and needs consistent attacks to keep it postponed otherwise his plan is pretty shoddy.

short term solution to a long term problem.

 

[BestGirl]

It a whole lot of things (no-one actually wants to hear them) but it is all summed up in "untranslatable by normal human filmmakers and unwatchable by general film audiences"

I also just thought it was funny that our positions are the way they are, if you're scared you are going to be asked why, but if you're excited nobody asks because everyone who knows about watchmen they go "of course they're excited that series was the bomb!"

Then again it all comes back to what I said days ago: I didn't like V

That's because much of what we've seen and heard of Watchmen so far has been great. People who are worried or don't like the movie seem to be casting around for reasons to be negative. If you want to see some places where optimists are derided, visit the Spirit or Dragonball forums.

 

[BestGirl]

I just finished reading the Graphic Novel and I for one HATE the ending with the monster and alien invasion. It is totally ridiculous to me and doesn't feel like it is part of this serious story at all. I'm pretty sure i'll like the end in the movie more.

I didn't "HATE" the ending but it was weak compared to the rest of the GN. I would've liked it better if the alien had been hinted at earlier, like maybe Nixon could've mused "How quickly our problems would be solved if Earth were faced with an outside enemy." At any rate, it is possible that Snyder could improve on it, which is why I'm not as opposed to an ending change as I could be.

 

[Everything boy]

That's because much of what we've seen and heard of Watchmen so far has been great. People who are worried or don't like the movie seem to be casting around for reasons to be negative. If you want to see some places where optimists are derided, visit the Spirit or Dragonball forums.

You are soo right it has nothing to do with the fact that the BOOK won a hugo, or was on time magazines 20th century novels, or that comic book readers have souted its praises from the 1st issue, it's all because of what snyder did, I remember that nobody liked this book before the positive things about the movie came out, come on thats about as flimsy as the whole "see these guys loved it and couldn't be biased (because it is totally possible for a human being to set aside prior feelings)" seriously are you listening to yourself. You say "that's because" like you know definitvely why come on do you really have this much confidence in your own mind (your favorite watchmen was Ozy wasn't it?)

 

[Katsuro]

You are soo right it has nothing to do with the fact that the BOOK won a hugo, or was on time magazines 20th century novels, or that comic book readers have souted its praises from the 1st issue, it's all because of what snyder did, I remember that nobody liked this book before the positive things about the movie came out, come on thats about as flimsy as the whole "see these guys loved it and couldn't be biased (because it is totally possible for a human being to set aside prior feelings)" seriously are you listening to yourself. You say "that's because" like you know definitvely why come on do you really have this much confidence in your own mind (your favorite watchmen was Ozy wasn't it?)

What the hell are you talking about? Your argument seems to be that the only reason people are praising the Watchmen movie is because the book was loved. Yet at the same time, Dragonball was a very popular franchise with an even bigger fanbase, and yet the consensus is that that movie is going to blow chunks. Obviously people are basing their opinions not on the quality of the original book, but off the apparent quality of the adaptation.