2007 NFL Thread

[Erzengel]

Opps. yep.

Another crazy prediction:

NEW YORK WILL UPSET DALLAS!

I can't trust your predictions when you can't even get the teams straight.

 

[Matt]

Is there such a stat as "comeback percentage"?

Actually, yes. Brady has the highest percentage of comebacks when down in the 4th quarter or something to that extent. I heard it during one of the broadcasts last season.

 

[FaT_tONle]

I saw that line against a good Bucs defense open up huge holes for friggin' Kenton Keith and give Manning all day to throw to cats like Anthony Gonzalez.

Wait... so now we are using the Bucs defensive line as the barometer? Did Sapp and Rice come back to the Bucs or something? I'll give you the Colts O-line came together last year... but they have had just too many injuries this year and it isn't fair to compare it to the Pats o-line at this moment.

 

[Erzengel]

After the Colts game this Thursday, they will have 10 days for some of their players to get off the DL coming into what seems like an easy last 5 games.

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

Actually, yes. Brady has the highest percentage of comebacks when down in the 4th quarter or something to that extent. I heard it during one of the broadcasts last season.

Sounds an awful lot like "clutch" or something like it.

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

I'm going to use the following reply to defend Slim's quarterback. *shock*

Here goes....



I have to call BS on that one.

The Colts offensive line is just as good as New England's, and quite honestly, they've been better than New England's since the Colts/Pats run of the past few years.

I saw that line against a good Bucs defense open up huge holes for friggin' Kenton Keith and give Manning all day to throw to cats like Anthony Gonzalez.



The Patriots offense utilizes more formations and personnel groups than the Colts, but that doesn't make them better coached or their coordinators any more superior. The Colts offense isn't overly complex in design, but Manning and Moore's 3 Play Check-With-Me scheme is friggin' brilliantly orchestrated. There aren't many people who can pull off a scheme like theirs.



Those aren't necessarily audibles that Manning calls. Again, as I stated earlier, the Colts use a scheme in which they come to the line in a base formation with multiple plays called in by Tom Moore.



Manning reads the defense and checks into the best play available. All of that 'nonsense' he does at the LOS is by design, not just him going crazy with audibles.



Confusion? Just because they've struggled a bit this season due to injuries doesn't cloud everything they've accomplished as an offense over the past few years. The scheme works.



He does it nearly every play. So yeah, he's had success doing it.



So is Manning.



I think Brady is the better quarterback. But all of the things you just listed, Manning does just as well, IMO. His timing with Harrison and Wayne over the past five or so years is the stuff of legends.





Wayne has been just as important and effective to the Colts as anyone on that offense since his arrival. Manning has a terrific relationship with him, as well.



Before this season, and before injuries tore apart his offense, Manning and the Colts receivers were the epitome of symmetry. I think people's memories are shot right now.



Natta.

Guess you didn't take well to my best Bill Simmons impersonation.

 

[Cmill216]

Wait... so now we are using the Bucs defensive line as the barometer? Did Sapp and Rice come back to the Bucs or something? I'll give you the Colts O-line came together last year... but they have had just too many injuries this year and it isn't fair to compare it to the Pats o-line at this moment.

No, I wasn't using them as a barometer.

But the Bucs defense is in the top ten in nearly every statistical category in the league, and yet I watched the Colts offensive line pick up every blitz, stunt, and pressure package Tampa threw at them. You take away the injuries they've had this year, and the Colts line is just as good as New England's offensive line, which was the point of the original argument.

 

[FaT_tONle]

No, he is not, but he has the best comeback percentage in the NFL. He has proven to be amazing when down in the 4th quarter...and he has won 3 super bowls with 3 average offenses.

Lemme guess... a John Madden stat? Tell me you are joking when you heard that stat... or at least tell me the broadcaster who came up with that one.

 

[Cmill216]

Guess you didn't take well to my best Bill Simmons impersonation.

 

[FaT_tONle]

No, I wasn't using them as a barometer.

But the Bucs defense is in the top ten in nearly every statistical category in the league, and yet I watched the Colts offensive line pick up every blitz, stunt, and pressure package Tampa threw at them. You take away the injuries they've had this year, and the Colts line is just as good as New England's offensive line, which was the point of the original argument.

I am not totally disagreeing but I don't put any credence at all into those stats... the Bucs schedule has been a joke.

And people say the Pats have played tough games... I don't think Dallas in week 6 is a huge barometer... everyone knows the Cowboy defense is a bend but don't break defense at best. And again they barely beat the Colts... what has their next toughest game been? The 6-4 Clevland Browns? Who could easily be 4-6 at this point... lets see them put 40 points up on Jacksonville, Pitt, S.D, K.C, Denver on the road... too bad we won't find out.

 

[Memphis Slim]

He's won Superbowls without the likes of Moss, Stallworth, Marvin Harrison, Wayne, Stokley, Dallas Clark. He has led the way to 3 championships without any players of the caliber of talent on offense that I listed. You're absolutely right, a great QB needs great receivers to set passing records, like Manning did when he set it a few years back. Now that Brady has that talent, he is going to blow past that record, which pretty much is the only thing Manning has on him.

The main difference between Manning and Brady is Manning NEEDS that caliber of talent in order to be successful, Brady does not.

But he had the lights out Defense that Manning never had until now!!

 

[Memphis Slim]

Matt: Brady has shown what has happened when he does not have good recievers. He makes the AFC championship and wins Superbowls. (How could you not have seen that coming? )

I meant that without Moss, there would not be thesely unearthly numbers and stats we've seen this year! Yes...they would still win games. But not like they've been doing.

 

[Cmill216]

I am not totally disagreeing but I don't put any credence at all into those stats... the Bucs schedule has been a joke.

I wouldn't call it a joke. 6 of their 10 games have been against teams that are currently .500 or better. Not to mention their bye week not coming til friggin' Week 10.

And in the games against their apparently weaker division opponents (two on the road) they completely dominated like a good team should.

 

[Memphis Slim]

I think part of Manning's problems relate to a weaker offensive line than the Patriots have. Also if you notice how the Pats and Colts run their offense, it seems that the Pats are better coached, and the coordinators are superior when it comes to formations, routes, ect.

Easy to say that when all of your pieces are there, isn't it?


Another factor that comes in to play would be the amount of Audibles that Manning calls every game. Is it possible that occasionally doing that too many times might cause a bit of confusion as far as getting on the same page with the offense? I'd be interested if there's a way to determine Manning's success when calling plays out of the air like that.

His audibles show just how prepared he is.

Brady appears prepared like a mother****er for every game. Now unless you discount the cameragate controversy, Brady definently has more awareness of his surroundings than Manning, cause his checkdowns are lighting fast, and he and Moss as well as the other recievers are almost always on the same page.

He didn't look so sure against Indy when he got sacked on the opening play. It does all start up front. And when you have enuff time to do your taxes, like he does, you're going to look "prepared" even if you aren't. As you stated, even the Colts O-Line is banged up.


So injuries have definently limited the Colts' offensive partly because of Harrison, because he and Manning have that awareness similar to how Brady and Moss run these days. What I wonder however is that why Manning only seems to have this with Harrison and not the other recievers? Perhaps Wayne isn't as savvy as Marvin when it comes to running routes. But it appears that Harrison, (and Stokley for that matter) were the guys that Manning always seems to know where he is on the field.

Perhaps you don't watch enuff Colts games.

[B]So in a weird roundabout way, Brady is a better QB than Manning because of the way he and the rest of the offense are seemingly in exact symmetry every down of every play[/B].[/COLOR] While Manning himself is a great QB as well, I find a bit of constant overanalysis all the time from him, hence the constant audibles, which might not be the most effective way to run an offense with the lack of talent level he has this year. Case Closed. Let's all get to back to Cowboy/Favre bashing people

Because everybody is healthy. I just don't get how you dismiss the missing pieces of the machine.

 

[Jerry!]

I meant that without Moss, there would not be thesely unearthly numbers and stats we've seen this year! Yes...they would still win games. But not like they've been doing.

You're right but you are missing the main point. If Manning didn't have Harrison and Wayne he wouldn't have set the TD record. But the difference is that Brady doesn't need those guys to win championships, Manning does. Its not really a knock on Manning as much as it sounds like it is, Brady is just going to end up as the best QB that ever played. Thats basically why that argument exists. To separate the two.

 

[BlackLantern]

I think if it was any other team besides the Pats that were dominating this much. Memphis wouldnt be constantly running them down. Not to mention that the record set by Peyton is probably going to be broken by Brady within the next month or so......so its extra salt in the wound for Memphis Slim...

and you can all go on and on about schedule all you want, but this is the NFL not college so I dont consider it a valid argument

 

[Excel]

My Pats lovefest here is over for the next 12 days as I'm getting married and will be no honeymoon; so peace out yall! Ill be back to gloat bout being 12-0 soon enough

 

[omid17]

My Pats lovefest here is over for the next 12 days as I'm getting married and will be no honeymoon; so peace out yall! Ill be back to gloat bout being 12-0 soon enough

Congrats

 

[The Game]

My Pats lovefest here is over for the next 12 days as I'm getting married and will be no honeymoon; so peace out yall! Ill be back to gloat bout being 12-0 soon enough

Congrats

 

[Memphis Slim]

I think if it was any other team besides the Pats that were dominating this much. Memphis wouldnt be constantly running them down. Not to mention that the record set by Peyton is probably going to be broken by Brady within the next month or so......so its extra salt in the wound for Memphis Slim...

and you can all go on and on about schedule all you want, but this is the NFL not college so I dont consider it a valid argument

But even the NFL has scrub teams..........whether you consider it valid or not. Doesn't change the fact that they are beating up on under .500 teams every week then struggled to beat a more equal opponent.

 

[Jerry!]

They beat the Colts playing badly and they soundly beat the Cowboys. You think the Packers stand much of a chance? The Titans?

 

[BlackLantern]

But even the NFL has scrub teams..........whether you consider it valid or not. Doesn't change the fact that they are beating up on under .500 teams every week then struggled to beat a more equal opponent.

Dallas is not a sub 500 team, granted they arent the colts, but they are still a good team.....

 

[BlackLantern]

and also the NFL schedule is written months before the season starts......lots of things happen with teams prior to training camp starting....who knew that Byron Leftwich would get released, or that Larry Johnson would suck hard, or that Harrison would get hurt......you can harp on about schedule all you want but as far as this season is concerned, yes the Colts are still defending champs.....but if the Pats run the table and go to the show......things will be different..........do you expect Belichick to go to the NFL league office and demand their schedule be changed from week to week/??...your complaining about something that the teams have no control over. the Pats are in a weak division.....lots of people expected for the Jets and the dolphins to be a lot better than they are

 

[TheRunningMan]

the pats will be undefeated until the big upset against pittsburgh

 

[dr venture]

Pats-Eagles point spread largest ever not involving expansion team

By Sal Paolantonio
ESPN.com


PHILADELPHIA -- Just three seasons after being separated by just three points in Super Bowl XXXIX, the gap between the Patriots and Eagles has widened to historic proportions: Philly is a 23½-point underdog.

That is the largest point spread for an NFL game that does not involve an expansion team, according to odds-making experts in Las Vegas.

On Dec. 5, 1976, the expansion Tampa Bay Buccaneers were 24-point underdogs to the defending Super Bowl champion Pittsburgh Steelers. The Steelers covered easily, winning 42-0.

"Nowadays, you don't see too many spreads over 16 or 17 points," said Sean Van Patten, an oddsmaker at Sports Consultants in Las Vegas. "That's because most teams take their starters out in the fourth quarter of a lopsided game. The Patriots don't. I call this phenomenon The [Bill] Belichick Factor."

By continuing to pour it on the fourth quarter, Belichick is throwing Vegas out of whack. And making bookies run for cover.

It all started Sunday night after Belichick walked across the field at Ralph Wilson Stadium to shake hands with Buffalo Bills head coach Dick Jauron, an awkward moment captured on national TV after the Patriots annihilated the Bills 56-10.

"The line for the Patriots-Eagles game was immediately set at 17 points -- and the big bettors, the sports syndicate guys, jumped on it, bet it hard," said Brandon Lang, whose life was depicted by Matthew McConaughey in the movie "Two for the Money" and is regarded as the nation's leading sports handicapper.

According to bookies and oddsmakers, all the big money took the Patriots and gave the points. Why? Because Belichick has been running up the score.

"So the spread jumped all the way to 22 in a matter of minutes," said Lang.

"You add the fact that Donovan McNabb is injured and you have the perfect storm," said a bookie in South Philadelphia who asked not to be identified.

McNabb has a swollen thumb on his right (throwing) hand and a sprained ankle. He did not finish the game on Sunday, when the Eagles beat the Miami Dolphins in Philadelphia. On Monday, head coach Andy Reid said his franchise quarterback is day-to-day.

"McNabb is worth four more points, in my opinion," said Van Patten. "Which means if he doesn't play Sunday, the spread in this game could set the record."

If the record is not set in this game, Van Patten said, don't be surprised if it is threatened in two of the Patriots' upcoming games -- against the New York Jets on Dec. 16 or the Dolphins on Dec. 23.

"The Jets game is the one to watch," said Van Patten. "The perception, at least, is that Belichick is running up the score because he's angry over Spygate. And he was caught by the Jets back in the first week of the season. It's gonna be payback time."

Sal Paolantonio covers the NFL for ESPN.

Damn......