Discussion in 'Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.' started by Whiskey Tango, Apr 28, 2014.
THAT is cool!!!
Man it SUCKS you can't play that game off-line
I can understand why some folks didn't like the finale because of the episode's total tone shift from heavy drama to humor. I was excepting a much more serious ending as well, but glad it went down that way.
I totally LMAO when Coulson "Found It!" for Garrett. That was brilliant! Can't wait for Season 2. t:
So at the end of the episode, some guys rock up to take the Cybertek people away right? Who are they?? They're not SHIELD, not HYDRA, so who is dealing with this :/
They're the military, Coulson told Trip to call them in just before he went to follow the centipede soldiers (after they went to default directive leaving to go protect Garrett at all costs).
Ah yes! I had forgotten about that. I was laughing too much at the "I bring the funk and the noise" line
Hello everyone! First post here
Just some general question about the episode/season:
When Garrett was revealed to be Hydra, people assumed (in some forums at least) that he was the head. Can we assume that either:
a. He was the indeed Hydra's Head and now Hydra is leaderless? (I know, cut one head, other two take its place)
b. Hydra has a real and only leader (like Red Skull), and Garrett & others are just generals in charge of different cells?
c. Should we assume that Hydra has no leader at all and is composed of totally independent cells (which share the same philosophy) , and what Garrett did with his cell (creating and using Cybertek and supersoldiers in order to save his own life and become a "super being") was not known by the other cells in the world?
Garrett never was the leader. A leader of a cell yes. I'd say Baron Von Strucker is a bigger leader and still active. Pierce was probably the highest before TWS.
I'd say b at first....with Pierce as leader and now Hydra is c
I think it's more Garrett was just using the name HYDRA to get what he wanted/get back at SHIELD, less than he was actually a part of HYDRA. Was they any mention of a 'them' that would give Garrett orders or that he was in contact with?
no mention.. Garrett was using HYDRA for his own purposes while being loosely affiliated to them.. similar to the Skull being part of the Nazi army
Yeah, Ward even made mention of them not being 'true believers'. Hydra was a means to an end for them both. In this instance, finding what Garrett needed to stay alive until Son of Coul liquefied him.
i would have liked to see what Garrett's plans were post-augmentation. was he bonkers or just acting like someone who has been enlightened (like Selvig)?
in the end, Ward was a lot like that dog he shot. he just kept waiting for orders.
good analogy Ant-manic
I think both: He had been enlightened (writing the alien code and understanding it) but it drove him completely bonkers as well.
He'd probably would've done something insane like subjecting millions to whatever it is the alien coding would've unlocked (the new world and all that jazz he was raving about).
I'm not convinced BVS is actually HYDRA given his comment about SHIELD and HYDRA both being no longer currency. That being said, I'm also not convinced there is a single head of HYDRA. I think it more akin to modern terrorist organizations that are becoming increasing decentralized (well, a cross between a modern terrorist organization and the Stone Masons where everyone views themselves as part of a secret club with secret handshakes and passwords and all that). Remember, when you cut off the head, two more heads take its place. There was a single head when red skull was in charge, but I don't think that's the case anymore.
That being said, I do agree completely that Garrett was never in charge of the entire organization. Certainly, there were better-established members, at a minimum, that pre-date him. But I also think being towards the top in SHIELD doesn't necessarily mean you're towards the top in HYDRA. Pierce may very-well be at the top of both because he seemed to be in charge of Insight, but Sitwell seemed a fairly sniveling, low-level HYDRA agent in spite of being level 8 in SHIELD.
Fantastic episode - can hardly wait for season 2.
I had been worried that they wouldn't have the stones to keep Ward on the dark path - his comment to Garrett about not being true believers had me worried that he'd turn on Garrett and being a hero at the end and start to redeem himself.
Absolutely loved the return of Fury and The final scene between Garrett and Coulson is classic Whedon.
Some people complaining that the tone shifted to humour after so much darkness?
That humour was always there and the time of the ending is same as Avengers - the world nearly ended and innocent people were dead - yet the scene of the Avengers ganging up on Loki was just as funny.
That's the thing about the MCU. Despite things getting dark and hopeless, there's always been room for some humor and levity to lighten up the mood a bit.
I am late to the party, but mostly because I didn't like the finale, at all. I get the fanboy's enthusiasm about reappearance of cool gadgets and Nick Fury, but I was hoping for something a bit more deep, and the episode hardly delivered on that front. In fact, it came full circle and actually made some of the mistakes that initially made me give up on the show after 4th episode. Namedropping without real development, cardboard personalities, black and white heroes and villains. Urg.
The last couple of episodes have been very interesting for me because the show finally became somewhat more gray. Coulson was revealed to have been experimented upon, expressedly against his recorded will. SHIELD was revealed as this compromised agency that was brought down partly through its own lying (see: no Slingshot), evil procedures (see: experiments on prisoners in the Fridge) and ****** leaders (see: Hand willing to execute suspects and prisoners alike). The heroes were suffering without a solid ground under their feet. All that seemed interesting to me. In the finale, however, we get a new SHIELD, and most of its design failures just get swept under the rug. Coulson yells at Fury for all of 1 minute for being experimented on against his will (I am sorry, but being in a medical profession it is a very strong taboo for me), and we are supposed to feel warm and fuzzy because he is an "Avenger" in Fury's eyes. Sorry, not good enough. Fury is the coolest badassest guy there is (despite the fact that he royally ****ed up his job, like all the damage Garrett and Ward did to SHIELD does not compare to the mess its own director brought). Coulson gets promoted to Director and has not a real word of critique to the agency (like, we ****ed up big time before, this time lets do it better). They get a new base out of pure Deus ex machina, they get new dangerous tech and use it to kill bad guys for laughs, they are suddenly friends with the military and get their help.
It's OK if you like light shows and slapstick humor, but I personally only came back to because the show looked like it could finally become a good character drama. And the finale negated it all.
it was typical Joss humour.. I love it..
Before this show ever aired i knew it wasn't going to be a character drama. It's got the same dna as the mcu films which aren't character dramas themselves so i formed my expectations accordingly. I leave it to cable networks for character dramas.
Well, maybe character drama was too strong a word. Good character development may be better. At the very least, please NOT a completely black and white palette. An entire team of completely positive, never-broken-a-glass characters (with the slight exception of Skye, sho is already reformed anyway) is just too much for me to endure. This is probably why I want Ward backs sooner or later; the team desperately needs to have some real interpersonal issues and not that forced "May spied on us, but it was for our own good, so we are all OK".
And MCU has been known to do it well enough. Tony Stark screws up badly literally in every IM movie.
1. Did anyone else find it odd that after Coulson zapped Garrett he just walked out of the room leaving all those tech people lying on the ground? I guess we have to assume they were all dead but shouldn't he have checked on them? (I'm not all that serious about this, I just found it odd.)
2. When Dethlok told Garrett he was told "never to leave his side" are we to assume that order was given by Garrett or could he have been referring to someone else?