BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 2

[Predator jp]

I'd genuinely be curious to see JJ Abrams' take on the character. Flyby didn't sound particularly hot, but if anyone has the commercial and creative chops combined to pull off a spectacular and crowd pleasing Supes, it's him.

i'm not fan of JJ Abrams but Superman could use his flair to break into 1billion club. really hate to see him sitting below the likes of Ironman or Deadpool in the box office. he's the Superman ffs.

 

[souperman]

Mad Max "fans" didn't help the BO bud. Sorry to tell you. If Marvel considers Marvel comics fans (the OG fanbase) to be less than 5% of their box office support, what percentage of FR ticket sales do you think were boosted by Mad Max fans? 1%? 3%? It doesn't compute. Did Predator fans make Predators a box office hit? No.

So by your logic, Star Wars fans do not help Star Wars BO either... oh yeah... their special.!

But seriously, maybe we have different definitions of "fans".

I am not talking about fans that have MM tattoos and own the soundtracks and
dress up in leather and look for gas...

I am talking about the GA who has ever heard of the MM trilogy and then sees a trailer that gets their attention and says, hey, that looks cool...

those "fans" helped I am fairly certain.

 

[Poni_Boy]

So by your logic, Star Wars fans do not help Star Wars BO either... oh yeah... their special.!

Mad Max fans who would blindly buy tickets to any Mad Mad movie pre-FR were no doubt in the tens of thousands at most

Star Wars fans who would blindly buy tickets to any Star Wars movie pre-TFA were in the millions

If you don't see the difference there and how it equates to box office revenue I can't help you bud

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

IGN asked Zack Snyder why Superman didn’t hear his mother’s cries for help using his superhearing. First of all, Snyder told them that he thinks the distance between Metropolis to Smallville is about Superman’s superhearing range. (Which, you know what? We’ll put that one down to a different interpretation of Superman’s powers. That can happen. Of course it means that I now have no clue how Superman showed up to save Lois in the opening scene unless he always hovers within his range of her. Which is another kind of creepy all together... and, no. I’m letting this particular plothole go.)

Second, of all, Snyder said that the many cries for help in the city would make finding Ma Kent difficult. Which was, he then went on to say, the basis of a cut scene:

"We had a scene that we cut from the movie where he tries to look for her when he finds out that Lex has got her. It was a slightly dark scene that we cut out because it sort of represented this dark side. Because when he was looking for his mom he heard all the cries of all the potential crimes going on in the city, you know when you look."

I know. I know the idea that something was cut from Batman v Superman for being “dark” is laughably insane. And while we applaud the instinct that had the scene where Superman ignores innocents crying for help removed from the final cut of the film, we do have to question the mind that filmed it in the first place. Thankfully, Snyder went on to explain why he liked the scene originally:

"I kind of like the idea that he’s taught himself not to look because if he looks it’s just neverending, right? You have to know when, as Superman, when to intervene and when not to. Or not when not to, you can’t be everywhere at once, literally you can’t be everywhere at once, so he has to be really selective in a weird way about where he chooses to interfere."

http://io9.gizmodo.com/zack-snyder-actually-cut-a-scene-from-batman-v-superman-1769852911

You know what...

Yea after seeing that, I just can't take Snyder seriously. I know I complain about BvS but Snyder just talks like a moron at times.

He's not like Nolan or Raimi or the Russos. You never hear him talk about characters and character development. You never get a feel that Snyder really does care for Superman. Yea he cares for Batman. Every Batman scene was ripped off of Frank's TDKR.

But we've had great Batman films in the Nolan series. Why can't now we just have great Superman films? A director who cares about characters?

If a director thinks the only way a character can develop is by killing them so they can come back from the dead in the next film, then fire him because that's stupid.

 

[MrsKent26]

Snyder's superman was human and relatable?

Not so much.

I think it's a false idea that "relatability" comes from a certain type of character personality (that type is usually vaguely defined as "flawed," whatever that means). Instead, I think it comes from the team's ability to communicate that character's personality, whatever it may be, to the audience. This didn't go so well for superman in BvS, with the exception of his relationship with Lois (gotta admit, I felt the love there clearly).

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

You're probably right. I was literally a marvel hater before BVS. But it was because I was jealous, since I've always been a DC guy. Now that I've seen BVS, I've really changed my tune and just accepted how fantastic the MCU is. I'm not expecting much from DC anymore sadly

I'm more of a DC fan but I was never huge on the MCU. I mean all the films are great to ok but they never had Marvel character I loved due to rights. Hulk, Spidey, Daredevil, X-Men. I wasn't as connected to the MCU.

I feel because of the Daredevil, the Russos now running the MCU in a way (doing Civil War and Infinity War), and Spidey joining that I now love the MCU.

I just want DC films to at least be as good as the MCU films.

Hey so I guess you were as disappointed with BvS as the rest of us. It needed Aaron Paul as the Flash didn't it.

 

[king666]

"I kind of like the idea that he’s taught himself not to look because if he looks it’s just neverending, right? You have to know when, as Superman, when to intervene and when not to. Or not when not to, you can’t be everywhere at once, literally you can’t be everywhere at once, so he has to be really selective in a weird way about where he chooses to interfere."

 

[souperman]

Mad Max fans who would blindly buy tickets to any Mad Mad movie pre-FR were no doubt in the tens of thousands at most

Star Wars fans who would blindly buy tickets to any Star Wars movie pre-TFA were in the millions

If you don't see the difference there and how it equates to box office revenue I can't help you bud

strike 3 buddy... you missed the point yet again...

 

[Poni_Boy]

Why should firefighters fight house fires because house fires are never ending, right?

Why should cops investigate homicides because homicides are never ending, right?

Why should soldiers fight in wars because wars are never ending, right?

Why should doctors treat the sick because people getting sick is never ending, right?

 

[Wylie Times]

What do those movies have to do with Civil War? This is a movie that uses war in it's title.

Using "War" in the title doesn't mean the film can't have moments of levity. There are films based on ACTUAL wars that have moments of levity in them.

Stop being so obtuse.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

strike 3 buddy... you missed the point yet again...

You make no sense lol

 

[Logan0327]

cbs's super girl is a better superman than DCU supes - she's caring,compassionate,being a hero is what makes her happy

there was a supergirl episode where she lost her power and still went in an stopped a robber by reasoning with him and talking him down

 

[TripleJ]

Why should firefighters fight house fires because house fires are never ending, right?

Why should cops investigate homicides because homicides are never ending, right?

Why should soldiers fight in wars because wars are never ending, right?

Why should doctors treat the sick because people getting sick is never ending, right?

Talk about taking one point and making a big deal out of it..

You want to talk about it, fine?

Superman have to make this sort of decisions every time, every moment. Because at any point, there are millions of people who need some sort of help.

But, who to choose? Superman can't be everywhere. And he's not as fast as Flash (heck, even Flash can't save everyone).

But, that is the sort of thing a lot of writers/creatives just ignore...instead they write bland stories about Superman beating up villains.

(Granted there are good ones among those too).

The best Superman stories are where he has to deal with such things, for instance - Peace on Earth, where he tries to solve World Hunger.

Or Kingdom Come, where his generation has inspired a more violent class of superheroes (and he has to deal with that).

Every time Superman chooses to save someone, he's also choosing to not to save someone else (well, millions of others).

And the whole Clark Kent persona - he could actually devote all of his time for heroics and save even more people.

But, you don't see him doing that. I don't count that against him. Because Superman isn't a god. He's an individual. He may have the powers of a god, but he isn't one. He's a good man who has the capacity to do great things, and does those things.

 

[FunkMiller]

I honestly wish that Morrison (or even Waid) would be willing to help a director and writer with a superman movie.

For this guy, yeah?

 

[king666]

Why should firefighters fight house fires because house fires are never ending, right?

Why should cops investigate homicides because homicides are never ending, right?

Why should soldiers fight in wars because wars are never ending, right?

Why should doctors treat the sick because people getting sick is never ending, right?

Snyder clearly despises the character. He's arrogant enough to think he's "growing up" a 77 years old character.

 

[RadioSha]

Strangely, I'll defend Snyder on this. I think he means overwhelming.

I think the big thing with Superman, at least for me his biggest challenge, is that he can't be at two places at one time. That's a great dilemma for the ultimate superhero. And it makes sense- I can totally understand how Superman has to fine tune his ear for those important to him and sometimes shut it completely off in order to not go insane from saving others and, at the same time, hearing others suffer because he couldn't be in two places at the same.

I don't like Snyder as much as the next guy, but come on.

 

[MrsKent26]

This guy, yeah?

Yes. Until the day comes that a movie like this is made and it flops, I will never stop believing that this superman would resonate with audiences of all ages. In fact, this superman would even fit into the Snyderverse. Actually, he wouldn't just fit in, he'd make it better because he'd be the light in the dark. Snyder doesn't seem to want a light in his dark though.

 

[FunkMiller]

Superman have to make this sort of decisions every time, every moment. Because at any point, there are millions of people who need some sort of help.

But, who to choose? Superman can't be everywhere. And he's not as fast as Flash (heck, even Flash can't save everyone).

But, that is the sort of thing a lot of writers/creatives just ignore...instead they write bland stories about Superman beating up villains.
.

But Snyder likes a Superman who would ignore those cries for help. Don't you see the frickin' problem, here?

 

[TripleJ]

Strangely, I'll defend Snyder on this. I think he means overwhelming.

I think the big thing with Superman, at least for me his biggest challenge, is that he can't be at two places at one time. That's a great dilemma for the ultimate superhero. And it makes sense- I can totally understand how Superman has to fine tune his ear for those important to him and sometimes shut it completely off in order to not go insane from saving others and, at the same time, hearing others suffer because he couldn't be in two places at the same.

I don't like Snyder as much as the next guy, but come on.

The Timmverse sort of explored this, albeit with MM (he has to deal with an entirely different challenge).

You know, now that I think about it, there's really not much different between MM and Superman.

 

[TripleJ]

But Snyder likes a Superman who would ignore those cries for help. Don't you see the frickin' problem, here?

That's what you got from it?

Do you really think someone will be able to live with himself (and be sane) if he/she were to hear cries for help every waking second?

If you want to play with semantics, sure he's ignoring it.

He's always been doing that, in every freaking iteration.

 

[Poni_Boy]

You make no sense lol

Right? If apples are a fruit and so are blueberries what time is it in London?

 

[Aquafinn90]

Strangely, I'll defend Snyder on this. I think he means overwhelming.

I think the big thing with Superman, at least for me his biggest challenge, is that he can't be at two places at one time. That's a great dilemma for the ultimate superhero. And it makes sense- I can totally understand how Superman has to fine tune his ear for those important to him and sometimes shut it completely off in order to not go insane from saving others and, at the same time, hearing others suffer because he couldn't be in two places at the same.

I don't like Snyder as much as the next guy, but come on.

Yeah
I also assumed that in Lois's case, he kinda always has his ears pointed towards her since she clearly has a knack for getting herself into trouble. If he's already listening, he is able to intervene. But in the case of Ma Kent, he didn't know she was captured until Lex told him, at which point he would have zero idea where she was since she was abducted in Smallville, but taken to Gotham

To add to that, that's another issue with Superman- He is just so powerful, but you have to create some kind of dramatic tension. I don't read the comics so I don't know how they do that in there. But its just like the Force in Star Wars. How many times could they have used the Force to get out of a situation or avoid a conflict? Literally every time.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Yes. Until the day comes that a movie like this is made and it flops, I will never stop believing that this superman would resonate with audiences of all ages. In fact, this superman would even fit into the Snyderverse. Actually, he wouldn't just fit in, he'd make it better because he'd be the light in the dark. Snyder doesn't seem to want a light in his dark though.

Exactly. That's why I don't understand why they say it won't work. They haven't bothered to try.

 

[FunkMiller]

Yes. Until the day comes that a movie like this is made and it flops, I will never stop believing that this superman would resonate with audiences of all ages. In fact, this superman would even fit into the Snyderverse. Actually, he wouldn't just fit in, he'd make it better because he'd be the light in the dark. Snyder doesn't seem to want a light in his dark though.

While Grant goes off into his usual (and wonderful) flights of fantasy in All Star Superman, he so so beautifully captures the essence of who the character is, down to the tips of his big red boots.

I mean, just look at this picture by Frank Quietely:

No posing. No pomposity. No chest thumping.

Just a humble man with a small, warm smile on his face, who also happens to be a god.

 

[Jumpman]

Strangely, I'll defend Snyder on this. I think he means overwhelming.

I think the big thing with Superman, at least for me his biggest challenge, is that he can't be at two places at one time. That's a great dilemma for the ultimate superhero. And it makes sense- I can totally understand how Superman has to fine tune his ear for those important to him and sometimes shut it completely off in order to not go insane from saving others and, at the same time, hearing others suffer because he couldn't be in two places at the same.

I don't like Snyder as much as the next guy, but come on.

I was going to chime in but you said it better than I would've. This is not that hard to understand the why of his explanation.

Are we just at the point of hating Snyder no matter what even when his logic is sound?