BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 295

Status
Not open for further replies.
Speaking of 'VS' stuff, this just came in today. Anyone seen it? Haven't heard a word about it yet:

12932885_822930554502437_4853797623145118946_n.jpg

[Not trying to derail the convo, just wanted to lighten to mood a bit. Lots of great DC stuff coming down the pike]
 
Only because Alfred says "new rules"?

But then Bruce says: We are criminals - Always been criminals...nothing has changed.

Alfred replies: "Everything's changed"... (bigger meaning)

And the "Good men" line by Alfred.
 
Speaking of 'VS' stuff, this just came in today. Anyone seen it? Haven't heard a word about it yet:

12932885_822930554502437_4853797623145118946_n.jpg

[Not trying to derail the convo, just wanted to lighten to mood a bit. Lots of great DC stuff coming down the pike]

I saw it, it was good. Not dc's best animated offering but good enough.
 
Speaking of 'VS' stuff, this just came in today. Anyone seen it? Haven't heard a word about it yet:

12932885_822930554502437_4853797623145118946_n.jpg

[Not trying to derail the convo, just wanted to lighten to mood a bit. Lots of great DC stuff coming down the pike]

Hopefully it's better than the last few years of their animated offerings. I've honestly just given up on these now and will only check out certain ones, like I watched Bad Blood for Batwoman and I'll see Killing Joke for Hamill's Joker if nothing else.
 
Speaking of 'VS' stuff, this just came in today. Anyone seen it? Haven't heard a word about it yet:

12932885_822930554502437_4853797623145118946_n.jpg

[Not trying to derail the convo, just wanted to lighten to mood a bit. Lots of great DC stuff coming down the pike]

Saw it last week, it was pretty good. Nothing amazing but better than a lot of their recent animation films with the New 52 line up. I still think TDKR is their best work on the animated side in a while. Timm's Gods and Monsters was good too
 
Everyone keeps saying "you're injecting YOUR Superman" and that's ridiculous.

There is a foundation that every character is built on. EVERY fictional character. Yes, you can add and strip away things, but the foundation is what makes them who they are and why they resonate.

In darn near every version of Superman that aims to be "Superman" (not including Elseworlds), Clark is the ultimate good guy. There were probably 100 different ways he could have stopped Bruce and get him to hear what he has to say.

Seriously, just think about it for a second: he approaches him and basically says "wait" once. Bruce does some stuff and when Clark finally gets close enough to actually talk to him...he pushes him 30ft back and then tackles him through a building.

I get that you enjoyed the movie and nothing I say is going to change that, but you can't knock the bad writing involved with that scene/fight. It basically requires both individuals to be murderous lunatics.

Do you want to see an action adventure movie or an in depth dinner with Superman and Batman film?

Of course there would be many ways to have avoided the fight...then what... not BvS/TDKR altercation.

I'm not saying there were other things they could have done, but that's a different movie.

Those moments were to demonstrate and illustrate the differences and strengths AND have fun with it.

I'm sorry you could't enjoy it for what it was. A snapshot moment in the growth of the characters.
 
Speaking of 'VS' stuff, this just came in today. Anyone seen it? Haven't heard a word about it yet:

12932885_822930554502437_4853797623145118946_n.jpg

[Not trying to derail the convo, just wanted to lighten to mood a bit. Lots of great DC stuff coming down the pike]

If Superboy isn't in it I have no interest. Kicking my boy to the curb way too often now days. I think even Rebirth is sticking to the Jonathan Kent version.
 
Speaking of 'VS' stuff, this just came in today. Anyone seen it? Haven't heard a word about it yet:

12932885_822930554502437_4853797623145118946_n.jpg

[Not trying to derail the convo, just wanted to lighten to mood a bit. Lots of great DC stuff coming down the pike]

Going to watch it soon.

Waiting for Preacher too. I know DC isn't directly involved, but I still consider it as DC/Vertigo.
 
Speaking of 'VS' stuff, this just came in today. Anyone seen it? Haven't heard a word about it yet:

12932885_822930554502437_4853797623145118946_n.jpg

[Not trying to derail the convo, just wanted to lighten to mood a bit. Lots of great DC stuff coming down the pike]

It's pretty good. I enjoyed it, especially as a Raven fan ( since the film is very Raven centric ).

would like to see more animated films with this lineup of Titans.
 
Is there any scene in the movie where Batman fights several guys besides when he saves Martha? A friend of mine was telling me that Batman fights a bunch of guys before the Batmobile scene but i don't remember that. I think she might be confused.
 
Is there any scene in the movie where Batman fights several guys besides when he saves Martha? A friend of mine was telling me that Batman fights a bunch of guys before the Batmobile scene but i don't remember that. I think she might be confused.

maybe the knightmare?
 
Do you want to see an action adventure movie or an in depth dinner with Superman and Batman film?

Of course there would be many ways to have avoided the fight...then what... not BvS/TDKR altercation.

I'm not saying there were other things they could have done, but that's a different movie.

Those moments were to demonstrate and illustrate the differences and strengths AND have fun with it.

I'm sorry you could't enjoy it for what it was. A snapshot moment in the growth of the characters.

Precisely! So they should've set up a scenario where Superman WANTED to fight and was not forced into it.

A clash of ideologies and a battle of philosophy would've forced it. Batman trying to stop the alien god from destroying earth and Superman stopping the masked vigilante branding and killing people without due process.

But we get none of that. Instead they fight because Superman was forced into it. If the ultimate goal was to tell Batman what was happening, why didn't pin him down and tell him? Because there would be no fight?

Further proving that they came up with the title before the story, couldn't find a real reason to fight and had to come up with a contrived plot point.
 
Why don't people realize that Superman isn't Space Jesus.

Superman's story is more Space Moses then Space Jesus.

As someone of a faith (along with being a film fan) making a character Jesus like feels wrong because it could make the character unrelatable. Can anyone really relate to Jesus? I mean as a Catholic boy (like Daredevil) we want to be as good as Jesus was but Jesus was born without original sin. Jesus never gave into temptation. His struggle for that may seem interesting but still using Jesus as an influence feels wrong you know. We look up to him and want to be as good as he was but can any of else relate to him really? Doesn't help the character. It's very hard to make a character Jesus like and work. The best time I've seen it work was Green Mile with John Coffey.

Superman wasn't born to be special. But still Superman is really a human with powers. Clark thinks of himself as human and not alien despite being alien.

Being a Christ Figure certainly does not mean that's all you can be.

There’s no reason Superman cannot have elements of both, as well as other mythic figures, and have parallels drawn with many concepts.

No, he's not actually a God, but the concept of the world seeing him as such at first and struggling to see him as one of them...that's right out of many versions of the comics.
 
Precisely! So they should've set up a scenario where Superman WANTED to fight and was not forced into it.

A clash of ideologies and a battle of philosophy would've forced it. Batman trying to stop the alien god from destroying earth and Superman stopping the masked vigilante branding and killing people without due process.

But we get none of that. Instead they fight because Superman was forced into it. If the ultimate goal was to tell Batman what was happening, why didn't pin him down and tell him? Because there would be no fight?

Further proving that they came up with the title before the story, couldn't find a real reason to fight and had to come up with a contrived plot point.

They even had Clark investigating Batman and being concerned about his actions. That setup went literally no where.
 
Everyone keeps saying "you're injecting YOUR Superman" and that's ridiculous.

There is a foundation that every character is built on. EVERY fictional character. Yes, you can add and strip away things, but the foundation is what makes them who they are and why they resonate.

In darn near every version of Superman that aims to be "Superman" (not including Elseworlds), Clark is the ultimate good guy. There were probably 100 different ways he could have stopped Bruce and get him to hear what he has to say.

Seriously, just think about it for a second: he approaches him and basically says "wait" once. Bruce does some stuff and when Clark finally gets close enough to actually talk to him...he pushes him 30ft back and then tackles him through a building.

I get that you enjoyed the movie and nothing I say is going to change that, but you can't knock the bad writing involved with that scene/fight. It basically requires both individuals to be murderous lunatics.

Point I'd like to make here..."Superman is the best us" is hyperbole. In no way is Superman the ultimate good guy. He's a good man. There's no doubt. But he's not the best man there is. He uses violence, after all.

Anyway, I'm curious.

What's the explanation for all the comic book fights, where a character who obviously IS Superman and has all the classic core traits chooses to fight Batman? Where Superman and Batman keep fighting for a while?

I don't think people realize that it's not terribly realistic to have two characters fight...and try to talk at the same time. You want to talk about muddled...that would be muddled.

I also don't people give the fact that these are two creatures of ego enough weight. These are two alpha dogs. Even in comics, Superman often throws punches sometimes before he tries to talk. Both these characters use violence in some form to solve problems. That is not how they differ...that is actually one of their similarities.

And if we're going to single out "how many times" and "how often" Superman appeals to Batman in a cinematic fistfight before just trying to make him stop with his words...seems like splitting hairs to me.

And I don't think it would have been terribly fulfilling to have them just fight over their ideologies.

Instead, their ideologies were PART OF the fight. Batman attacking with his "cheating" ways, trying to put Superman down and end his threat with violence. Superman trying to reason with Batman, but still being willing to use force to stop him.
 
Last edited:
I know it's old news, but there's a point I want to make here about the depiction of the Waynes' murders. At the end of the day, Thomas Wayne and Martha Wayne died because they were shot by the mugger. Did Thomas provoke him? Possibly. Is that smart? No. Do people always make smart decisions under pressure, or to resolve conflict? Nope.

Anyway, the point is this.

Snyder and the writers did not RANDOMLY make it so there was a shot of Thomas Wayne “balling up his fist” and surging forward.

This was not an accident. It is not an accident that this is wildly different than what we saw from Nolan's Thomas Wayne.

It was not an accident when Miller showed this in TDKR.

The impulse in Bruce Wayne that became The Batman was born in violence.

And what does he do after that violent rebirth? He spends his life steeped in violence and struggling with his violent nature.

There’s meaning regarding Thomas and Martha trying to save Bruce by physically trying to stop the gunman. I don’t know if everyone noticed, but the movie sort of quietly makes a point about violence maybe not being the way to go all the time when it comes to resolving conflict.

And the movie opens with a microcosm of that.

It’d be interesting to see the Masculine/Feminine thread's take on this.

You could make the argument that in some ways, Bruce, in rescuing the “surrogate” mother figure at the end of the film, was actually atoning for his father’s failure.

Also, it’s quite possibly a dream. We don’t know that this is exactly what happened. They could conceivably show the origin again in a different light if they wanted to. Much like the comics have. I kind of love that.
 
I know it's old news, but there's a point I want to make here about the depiction of the Waynes' murders. At the end of the day, Thomas Wayne and Martha Wayne died because they were shot by the mugger. Did Thomas provoke him? Possibly. Is that smart? No. Do people always make smart decisions under pressure, or to resolve conflict? Nope.

Anyway, the point is this.

Snyder and the writers did not RANDOMLY make it so there was a shot of Thomas Wayne “balling up his fist” and surging forward.

This was not an accident. It is not an accident that this is wildly different than what we saw from Nolan's Thomas Wayne.

It was not an accident when Miller showed this in TDKR.

The impulse in Bruce Wayne that became The Batman was born in violence.

And what does he do after that violent rebirth? He spends his life steeped in violence and struggling with his violent nature.

There’s meaning regarding Thomas and Martha trying to save Bruce by physically trying to stop the gunman. I don’t know if everyone noticed, but the movie sort of quietly makes a point about violence maybe not being the way to go all the time when it comes to resolving conflict.

And the movie opens with a microcosm of that.

It’d be interesting to see the Masculine/Feminine thread's take on this.

You could make the argument that in some ways, Bruce, in rescuing the “surrogate” mother figure at the end of the film, was actually atoning for his father’s failure.

Also, it’s quite possibly a dream. We don’t know that this is exactly what happened. They could conceivably show the origin again in a different light if they wanted to. Much like the comics have. I kind of love that.

You got all of that from the scene of a man trying to surprise attack the shooter? How do you know Bruce's character as a child even knows what he was seeing? After all, he was behind Thomas.

The reality is Bruce Wayne explains his psyche when he tells Alfred the story of what the Wayne family actually came from - i.e. hunters. It had nothing to do with the opening act. Just simple exposition. You could also add in Alfred's speech about the fever.
 
Last edited:
HEROES IN A PHOTO

did anybody notice the photograph on an office wall in the daily planet?

it looked like 3 or at least 2 people with costumes stood in a line.

but the 1 on the left (closest to the viewer has a black and blue costume and it looks like BLUE BEETLE.

The scene is just after when lex puts his blood on zods face. check it out if you can.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"