BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 295

[NotSoLongAgo]

I know it's old news, but there's a point I want to make here about the depiction of the Waynes' murders. At the end of the day, Thomas Wayne and Martha Wayne died because they were shot by the mugger. Did Thomas provoke him? Possibly. Is that smart? No. Do people always make smart decisions under pressure, or to resolve conflict? Nope.

Anyway, the point is this.

Snyder and the writers did not RANDOMLY make it so there was a shot of Thomas Wayne “balling up his fist” and surging forward.

This was not an accident. It is not an accident that this is wildly different than what we saw from Nolan's Thomas Wayne.

It was not an accident when Miller showed this in TDKR.

The impulse in Bruce Wayne that became The Batman was born in violence.

And what does he do after that violent rebirth? He spends his life steeped in violence and struggling with his violent nature.

There’s meaning regarding Thomas and Martha trying to save Bruce by physically trying to stop the gunman. I don’t know if everyone noticed, but the movie sort of quietly makes a point about violence maybe not being the way to go all the time when it comes to resolving conflict.

And the movie opens with a microcosm of that.

It’d be interesting to see the Masculine/Feminine thread's take on this.

You could make the argument that in some ways, Bruce, in rescuing the “surrogate” mother figure at the end of the film, was actually atoning for his father’s failure.

Also, it’s quite possibly a dream. We don’t know that this is exactly what happened. They could conceivably show the origin again in a different light if they wanted to. Much like the comics have. I kind of love that.

 

[Spideyfan117]

HEROES IN A PHOTO

did anybody notice the photograph on an office wall in the daily planet?

it looked like 3 or at least 2 people with costumes stood in a line.

but the 1 on the left (closest to the viewer has a black and blue costume and it looks like BLUE BEETLE.

The scene is just after when lex puts his blood on zods face. check it out if you can.

I have to look for this when it comes out on Blu Ray (I might not like the movie, but I like to get most superhero movies on blu ray). Aren't they making a Blue Beetle and Booster Gold movie?

 

[Lencho01]

Has Captain America replaced Superman as the USA's superhero symbol?

I don't 100% agree with the article... but I do think the Superman brand has been damaged. And it's not the character's fault, I'd say.

WB certainly hasn't tried to push those qualities of the character. So, they made their bed and will have to sleep in it.

 

[Lencho01]

Explains why Cavill had so few Superman lines in MoS.

There's some gossip that it goes beyond that with regards to Cavill. But, it's gossip so you take it as a grain of salt if you want or not.

 

[Kobra]

Honestly, posts like this one are disrespectful and useless to the forum. If you don't agree with him you either ignore him or offer a valid argument to counter his. What you're doing is simply mocking people who share a different opinion from yours.

 

[Eggyman]

Honestly, posts like this one are disrespectful and useless to the forum. If you don't agree with him you either ignore him or offer a valid argument to counter his. What you're doing is simply mocking people who share a different opinion from yours.

I agree. Also, all forms of art are a collaboration between the maker and the viewer. If The Guard gets that from the film then fair play. And I can't stand BvS.

 

[The Guard]

There's some gossip that it goes beyond that with regards to Cavill. But, it's gossip so you take it as a grain of salt if you want or not.

Accent?

I know he has some issues with the word "been".

 

[Lencho01]

Accent?

I know he has some issues with the word "been".

Nah. Personal stuff just like many others in Hollywood.

 

[Cats]

Precisely! So they should've set up a scenario where Superman WANTED to fight and was not forced into it.

Audiences would have more to complain about if after snapping Zod's neck, Superman was also to be seen as an instigator of violence. I'm glad that they avoided going that route, and put the blame on Lex instead.

 

[Jaxon]

Audiences would have more to complain about if after snapping Zod's neck, Superman was also to be seen as an instigator of violence. I'm glad that they avoided going that route, and put the blame on Lex instead.

100%. There is no reasonable way Superman would go and fight Batman based on ideology unless Batman was murdering innocent people. Even when Superman first confronts him he is very uncomfortable in delivering a threat, so much so that he doesn't even wait for Batman to respond because it's not in his values to go around threatening people.

 

[Mjölnir]

Audiences would have more to complain about if after snapping Zod's neck, Superman was also to be seen as an instigator of violence. I'm glad that they avoided going that route, and put the blame on Lex instead.

If they were to avoid it they shouldn't have started to build that part up at all. They had him want to make Batman stop, hence why he interrupted his car chase and told him that Batman is dead (oddly enough leaving the other criminals completely alone). They just discarded it at the end and gave him different motivations, instead of making that plot line pay off. Imo the worst of both worlds.

As it was he still instigated violence as he could just have continued to talk, as Batman posed no threat to him whatsoever, and it would have been solved early. Instead he got annoyed with Batman and decided to run a human being through an entire building. That would have come off better if he was trying to do what he thought was right, rather than waste some of the little time his mother had.

 

[metaphysician]

So if a guy high on meth threatens a cop with a knife and the cop shoots him it's not the cop's fault at all for escalating the situation?

Some of y'all seem to be making absolute statements based on pop culture knowledge.

Bad example. An irrational person with a knife is a mortal danger to those around them. The cop deserves a medal, as long as the guy was *actually* being aggressive ( and the cop makes sure he hits the guy, and not anybody else ).

 

[brandeezy89]

My Aunt and Mom saw it Sunday, here's what my mom said:

(Keep in mind that they both didn't see MOS)

"Why was Batman so mad at Superman for no reason"

"Why was Superman mad at Batman for getting rid of criminals"

"Where did Batman's robot suit come from"

[blackout]"Did you see Wonder Woman drop the magical dirt on the casket at the end? That's how Superman comes back?"[/blackout]

That last one made me lol, she was being serious too so I had to explain it. She said it was a good movie but she was left confused on a lot of things. She said she'll watch it again, along with MOS when they release the 3hr version. She even knows they cut a lot of things.

Now I wait for my dad...

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Nah. Personal stuff just like many others in Hollywood.

Go on...

 

[The Guard]

If they were to avoid it they shouldn't have started to build that part up at all. They had him want to make Batman stop, hence why he interrupted his car chase and told him that Batman is dead (oddly enough leaving the other criminals completely alone). They just discarded it at the end and gave him different motivations, instead of making that plot line pay off. Imo the worst of both worlds.

As it was he still instigated violence as he could just have continued to talk, as Batman posed no threat to him whatsoever, and it would have been solved early. Instead he got annoyed with Batman and decided to run a human being through an entire building. That would have come off better if he was trying to do what he thought was right, rather than waste some of the little time his mother had.

Now, when you say Batman posed no threat whatsoever...

 

[Charlatan]

My Aunt and Mom saw it Sunday, here's what my mom said:

(Keep in mind that they both didn't see MOS)

"Why was Batman so mad at Superman for no reason"

"Why was Superman mad at Batman for getting rid of criminals"

"Where did Batman's robot suit come from"

[blackout]"Did you see Wonder Woman drop the magical dirt on the casket at the end? That's how Superman comes back?"[/blackout]

That last one made me lol, she was being serious too so I had to explain it. She said it was a good movie but she was left confused on a lot of things. She said she'll watch it again, along with MOS when they release the 3hr version. She even knows they cut a lot of things.

Now I wait for my dad...

Spoiler

that was Lois with the magic dirt

 

[Cats]

If they were to avoid it they shouldn't have started to build that part up at all. They had him want to make Batman stop, hence why he interrupted his car chase and told him that Batman is dead (oddly enough leaving the other criminals completely alone). They just discarded it at the end and gave him different motivations, instead of making that plot line pay off. Imo the worst of both worlds.

As it was he still instigated violence as he could just have continued to talk, as Batman posed no threat to him whatsoever, and it would have been solved early. Instead he got annoyed with Batman and decided to run a human being through an entire building. That would have come off better if he was trying to do what he thought was right, rather than waste some of the little time his mother had.

The way I see it, Superman had watching Batman kill and wanted him to stop. When he stopped Batman from chasing the criminals, he probably noticed the recklessness of the car chase (the Batmobile using turrets to shoot at the cars in front) and faulted Batman for it. Therefore the abrupt stop to that chase. I do agree Superman should've gone and continued the chase, but maybe he did and by then they were long gone.

Superman attempted thrice to talk to Batman, but it's clear from Batman's expression that he had no interest to negotiate. Batman's of a one track mind - it wasn't easy to convince himself to finally go commit "the act" (he had to keep dehumanizing Superman in order to see him as less than a person), and he didn't want to be dissuaded from it, believing he was doing it for the greater good. Right after Superman had been hit by the sonic canons, he attempted for a second time to negotiate, but Batman walked up to him and I think Superman pushed him instinctively, thinking he had something up his sleeve. And of course we know with Batman, he always has something up his sleeve. Rightly so, because the round of gun fire came next. He pushed Batman up the building merely to scare him - ironically I didn't like this scene the first time I saw it in the trailers, I voiced my concerns on this forum and got shut down by someone who's now giving this film a low rating lol. At that time, the person said Superman would know if any bones were broken. So let's go on the assumption he knew Batman would not be broken by that action. It was a mere scare tactic, followed by a "If I wanted it, you would be dead already", to assure Batman he wasn't there to fight, but to talk. Unfortunately, Batman doesn't get scared, and I think it was Superman's underestimation of the man that got the real fight started.

 

[Deserana]

Whatever the Cavill stuff is I'm dubious. It's your main lead in a tentpole series, WB wouldn't cast a guy if they're A) unsure of their talent or B) very difficult to work with.

 

[Lencho01]

Go on...

Hahaha. Since I feel I'll be asked again...

http://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2016/02/blind-items-revealed-2-399.html

September 11, 2015

The drugs have started to affect the acting of this A- list mostly movie actor. There is only so much CGI they can use in the movie. They do need some acting and have decided to cut some of his scenes and add more of this A+ list mostly movie actor into the movie.

Henry Cavill/Ben Affleck

Do you believe it? The choice is yours!

 

[AnneFan]

Superman attempted thrice to talk to Batman, but it's clear from Batman's expression that he had no interest to negotiate.

Yep. Superman realised Batman wasn't there to listen or talk. Supes said to Lois he'd kill Batman if required, because "no one stays good in this world."

 

[Deserana]

Hahaha. Since I feel I'll be asked again...

http://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2016/02/blind-items-revealed-2-399.html

Do you believe it? The choice is yours!

There's so many TV or film personalities where this would fit but for some reason this doesn't sound like Cavill. If so he hides it extremely well.

 

[ConnorKon-El]

So when Snyder posts a pic of himself on the set of JL on April 11th, is this place going to insane with people yelling at WB for not firing Snyder and being a flop company? #HonestQuestions

 

[Sleiek]

So when Snyder posts a pic of himself on the set of JL on April 11th, is this place going to insane with people yelling at WB for not firing Snyder and being a flop company? #HonestQuestions

I can't wait for that tweet.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Whatever the Cavill stuff is I'm dubious. It's your main lead in a tentpole series, WB wouldn't cast a guy if they're A) unsure of their talent or B) very difficult to work with.

Spoiler

Superman shoulda just kept his distance, dodged all the crap Batman throws at him, and said.
"Dude, there's that nut in Metropolis who says if I don't kill you, my mom will die. I came to ask for your help to save her."
Then Batman goes
"Oh, really? Ok, but you told me to stop being the Bat.
What's her name?"
"Martha" Superman replies.
Batman has flashbacks. "Hey, that's my mom's name too. Wait for me, I'll change my clothes and help you save your mom.
YYAAAAYY, my mom and his share the same name."

I think I'll send this to Daniel Baxter.

 

[Cats]

My Aunt and Mom saw it Sunday, here's what my mom said:

(Keep in mind that they both didn't see MOS)

"Why was Batman so mad at Superman for no reason"

"Why was Superman mad at Batman for getting rid of criminals"

"Where did Batman's robot suit come from"

[blackout]"Did you see Wonder Woman drop the magical dirt on the casket at the end? That's how Superman comes back?"[/blackout]

That last one made me lol, she was being serious too so I had to explain it. She said it was a good movie but she was left confused on a lot of things. She said she'll watch it again, along with MOS when they release the 3hr version. She even knows they cut a lot of things.

Now I wait for my dad...

I took my 8-yr-old son for the second time (the first time he sat next to his grandpa - and the grandpa fell asleep, so he had no one to direct his questions to). It was his idea to do this the second time, I think he wanted my commentary on it. Unlike your mom and aunt, he saw MoS about three times and loved it (begged his grandma to buy the shirt). These were his comments about BvS:

(On the world engine)
"Oh look! Wow, this movie really makes it look like it's continued from Man of Steel."

(On Batman's branding a man)
"He also has a Superman logo on his Batarang"

(On the bathroom scene)
"Why is Lois naked in the tub?"
"Eee! Why is Superman jumping into the water with his shoes on?"

(On the crypt scene)
"This is the scary scene right? It's so loud."
(And when Bruce wakes up)
"Who's sleeping in his bed? Is it Alfred?

(On Lex taking his first walk towards Zod's ship)
"I don't like this music"

(On the congress scene)
"What is Granny's Peach Tea?"

(On the Knightmare scene)
"What are those flying things?"
"Why can't Flash come out of the time warp?" (he'd been watching the Flash series with Grant Gustin, and that version of Flash has been walking in and out of time warps like nobody's business)

(On the Batmobile chase scene)
"Why is Batman killing people?"

(On the WW photo)
"Wow Wonder Woman also has her own song?"

(On the final scene with Lex)
"Why is he saying 'ding ding ding'?"