BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 295

[jae7702]

And that's not what I said. People are assuming the scenario is a guy LUNGING at a cop with a knife. I didn't say that. It's escalation if you can't prove the mens rea of the man with the knife, that he was absolutely, unequivocally about to use to it do harm. That's why brandishing a deadly weapon =/= attempted murder. Murder requires proof of intent.

Doesn't matter if he lunges at the cop, if the man pulls out the knife, is within a reasonable distance, and verbally threatens to use the knife on the officer then the officer is not at fault for using lethal force.

Dude, you keep moving the goalposts.

 

[Gianakin_]

Then there is no widespread division that this scene has caused. And I've not seen it discussed on other forums or threads until now.

I'll give you that it's not a thing like "nuking the fridge", but it's not confined to the past few pages on SHH.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Doesn't matter if he lunges at the cop, if the man pulls out the knife, is within a reasonable distance, and verbally threatens to use the knife on the officer then the officer is not at fault for using lethal force.

You're changing the goal posts son

 

[Poni_Boy]

Best way to describe BvS.

Snyder and WB be like...

Fans and critics be like...

Nothing wrong with a superhero film being serious but it's a Superman film people. Have some fun with it.

JUST watched this again last night. So good. Love the Captain Marvel entrance

 

[Gianakin_]

Here's the problem, people defend what they like just because they like it. And you really don't have to. If you like something, you like it. But trying to negate other people's opinions just because you liked it is where things go off the rocker. Did you like how Snyder shot that scene? Yes? Awesome. Glad it worked for you. But denying the way the scene was written differently, and that difference DOESN'T change the characters and their actions, makes no sense. It clearly does, even if Goyer/Snyder/Terrio didn't mean to do it on purpose (like when Superman rams the guy through the brick wall).

Yeah, pretty much. Look at my User Title and you'll know. I'm not blind to the many problems the Prequels have (though I'll disagree on some), but I like it. People liking BvS (or any movie) DESPITE flaws is fine, but there ARE faults.

 

[Gianakin_]

I strongly disliked both MoS and BvS but even I don't see them throwing in the towel. They're going to push forward with JL and the rest of their slate until they find what works. Like you said, I think that'll be Suicide Squad which will give them confidence going forward.

If only they get George Miller to do the JLs.

 

[FilmNerdJamie]

If only they get George Miller to do the JLs.

His Justice League: Mortal would have been a disaster - I've read the script and it's terrible. Let's not convince ourselves otherwise in retrospect just because Mad Max: Fury Road was awesome. Great filmmakers can be wrong fits with certain properties. John Boorman directed Excalibur, one of my absolute favorite films. But his Lord of the Rings would have been a trainwreck for the ages.

There was a reason why it was killed so late in the game.

 

[Deserana]

As much as I defend the movie I really can't defend Snyder sometimes.

His quote about heroes not being able to talk in costumes was ridiculous.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

JUST watched this again last night. So good. Love the Captain Marvel entrance

I finally brought it on Blu-Ray because of the tickets thing with BvS. Loved it.

I didn't get many comics as a kid because they didn't sell them where I lived in like grocery stores and what not but when I visited my uncle in NY, his grocery stores had comics. I got the #3 issue of Superman/Batman where they fight Grodd, all the ice villains, Grundy, Mongul, Banshee, Shiva, and the rest.

Use to have my Hulk action figures from the Ang Lee film take the place of Grundy and Mongul as they fight Batman and Superman. Probably my single favorite comic issue as a kid.

 

[Gianakin_]

His Justice League: Mortal would have been a disaster - I've read the script and it's terrible. Let's not convince ourselves otherwise in retrospect just because Mad Max: Fury Road was awesome.

There was a reason why it was killed so late in the game.

Oh, I've read it, too, and I agree. But I'm willing to place faith in the possibility that he can do better now. If all else fails, just have him direct, approach the thing another way and get a competent writer.

 

[Poni_Boy]

His Justice League: Mortal would have been a disaster - I've read the script and it's terrible. Let's not convince ourselves otherwise in retrospect just because Mad Max: Fury Road was awesome.

There was a reason why it was killed so late in the game.

I didn't mind the script as much as I minded the casting. But I've never been good at fancasting. I want a Kingdom Come movie in ten years with Jon Hamm as Supes and Leo DiCaprio as Batman

 

[jae7702]

Here ya go:

https://www.rt.com/usa/242769-aclu-police-shootings-disabled-americans/

http://verdictsearch.com/verdict/officer-escalated-situation-prior-to-shooting-plaintiff-claimed/

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-gun-shooting-training-ferguson/383681/

http://thedailybanter.com/2014/08/uk-police-stop-someone-knife/

Plenty of reference points in there

No they are not, read what I wrote.

All but one of those articles are about an actual case.

The only case you cited an officer shot a man with knife, the man never threatened the officer with said knife, the man was on his cell phone and had a knife in the other hand, the officer was called in because the man was said to be suicidal. The man never verbally threatened the officer, never pointed the knife at the officer, never advanced, was not high on meth..

Keep digging. I'll check up later to see if you actually found a CASE as you described, not some police training articles.

 

[Gianakin_]

As much as I defend the movie I really can't defend Snyder sometimes.

His quote about heroes not being able to talk in costumes was ridiculous.

What... did he say?

 

[jae7702]

Yeah, pretty much. Look at my User Title and you'll know. I'm not blind to the many problems the Prequels have (though I'll disagree on some), but I like it. People liking BvS (or any movie) DESPITE flaws is fine, but there ARE faults.

No one here is denying that, there are flaws in BvS and quite a few of them.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I finally brought it on Blu-Ray because of the tickets thing with BvS. Loved it.

I didn't get many comics as a kid because they didn't sell them where I lived in like grocery stores and what not but when I visited my uncle in NY, his grocery stores had comics. I got the #3 issue of Superman/Batman where they fight Grodd, all the ice villains, Grundy, Mongul, Banshee, Shiva, and the rest.

Use to have my Hulk action figures from the Ang Lee film take the place of Grundy and Mongul as they fight Batman and Superman. Probably my single favorite comic issue as a kid.

My parents owned a gift store when I was growing up (80s-90s), I was lucky to have so many comics around all the time. I still have like five copies of the DOS tbp in original packaging

 

[Gianakin_]

No one here is denying that, there are flaws in BvS and quite a few of them.

Eh, I wouldn't say "no one". And I certainly wasn't referring to the present time.

 

[Lucellit]

Look, I don't intend to bust your balls here, but do you not see that your "he will die and Bruce will be Batman either way" argument ignores a work of fiction's internal logic and opens a whole can of worms for writers to do anything they want, just because?

Anyone will start writing the Bat-origin with the "well, as long as the Waynes die" notion in mind.

Oh, I did not intended that way. The main idea is how Thomas Wayne reacted, either fight or cooperated (and most people here seemed to circled in those idea). I just think both could work anyway and we already got examples.
I'm sorry if I might too vague.

May the force be with you.


PS: I hope people did not think that I was not taking anybody here seriously because I put smileys there and there. I just want to put people at ease and not appear aggressive. This is internet forum and many things lost in text.

 

[Gianakin_]

Oh, I did not intended that way. The main idea is how Thomas Wayne reacted, either fight or cooperated (and most people here seemed to circled in those idea). I just think both could work anyway and we already got examples.
I'm sorry if I might too vague.

[blue]May the force be with you.[/blue]


PS: I hope people did not think that I was not taking anybody here seriously because I put smileys there and there. I just want to put people at ease and not appear aggressive. This is internet forum and many things lost in text.

No problem. May the Force be with you.

 

[jae7702]

You're changing the goal posts son

You said he threatens the officer, how with sign language? Even if he threatens him with physical actions, ie: pointing the knife at the officer, then the officer is still justified in using his firearm, son.

Still waiting on those prior cases officer.

 

[ironman29758]

As much as I defend the movie I really can't defend Snyder sometimes.

His quote about heroes not being able to talk in costumes was ridiculous.

Can you please post that quote, because honestly that makes no sense to me.

 

[Gianakin_]

You said he threatens the officer, how with sign language? Even if he threatens him with physical actions, ie: pointing the knife at the officer, then the officer is still justified in using his firearm, son.

If he's just pointing the knife, it's ok for the cop to shoot? That's... a potentially dangerous notion, if applied.

 

[jae7702]

If he's just pointing the knife, it's ok for the cop to shoot? That's... a potentially dangerous notion, if applied.

Yes, the officer would be justified if there is a reasonable threat. The man could have an angry look on his face, aggressive body language and pointing the knife. The officer in that scenario would be justified in using his firearm, by law.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Here's what I'm going to say.

If a guy is point a gun at you and your family, you want to downplay the situation. You don't want the situation to get raised where your wife and kid gets hurt. You want to play along to make sure nothing happens. If there is a moment where the mugger isn't focused, maybe try to disarm him. But you shouldn't start anything where your family could get harmed.

 

[Gianakin_]

Yes, the officer would be justified if there is a reasonable threat. The man could have an angry look on his face, aggressive body language and pointing the knife. The officer in that scenario would be justified in using his firearm, by law.

Eesh, if that's true, I shudder at the thought.

 

[jae7702]

Eesh, if that's true, I shudder at the thought.

Well just don't go pointing knives at cops and you should be fine.