BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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If you think this movie hurt Batman and Superman's reputation then think again buster.

Are you actually serious?
The most mocked movie in recent history? The critical panning; the record box office drop with no competition; the lack of GA interest; poor word of mouth; almost out of puff at the BO within 5 weeks; beaten in week 3 by The Boss; in it's run since the OW, has not equaled the BO take of the OW; rejected by comic book creators and fans alike - you know, the origin of the source material that made these characters so famous and popular.
Which of these facts enhances their reputation and how.
Please elucidate.
 
What about the 1% speech. Essentially Batman's reasoning for wanting to destroy Superman. It is patently absurd logic.
Lets apply the reasoning to anything else.

"If there is even a 1% chance that North Korea will bomb us we have to take it as an absolute certainty. They must be destroyed".

"If there is even a 1% chance that this person that has just walked into my store is a shop lifter I have to take it as an absolute certainty, Call security".

"If there is even a 1% chance that a muslim could be a terrorist, we have to take it as an absolute certainty. We must destroy the religion

"If there is even a 1% chance that this person drinking in my pub could turn violent, I must take it as an absolute certainty, Kick him out".

If there is even a 1% chance that Iraq have Weapons of mass destruction, we must take it as an absolute certainty. They must be destroyed". oh....wait......

I cannot believe that this idea went from the script, to the director, actor. etc....and no one said. hold on. this is absurd......How did it get through?

There is so much wrong with this film. It honestly amazes me.

:hehe:

Wow. So the problem we have with movie is not what was actually written or displayed on the screen, but that we didn't have access to your completely imagined version of Batman's internal logic and inner monologue.
For which no actual evidence exists.
The smartest man on the planet, if not in all of history, is now fundamentally unable to articulate his motives, even when he's clearly articulating them?
Also, now Batman's motivation to kill Superman is jealousy?
Thanks, your imagined story now definitely helps support my assertion that we had to get Ludicrous Lex in this movie, because established Lex would be indistinguishable motivationally from Snyder's Batman.
Hate him because he's an alien and I'm a self-confessed Xenophobe: Check
Hate him because he challenges my sense of significance: Check
Hate him because he wrecked my stuff while saving the world: Check
Hate him because I must be seen as the most important and the best: Check
Hoard Kryptonite and build a power suit to take him on: Check
Rationalise that I'm really the hero when planning the murder with very poor logic: Check
Wait, how is Snyder Batman NOT the best, most faithful on-screen portrayal of Lex Luthor ever?

And now Batman's not a hero? Well of course he isn't if he's Lex Luthor in a Bat suit.

Namor is generally acknowledged as the first comic book anti-hero. Guess the comic book historians forgot about Batman.
The Punisher is an anti-hero. So is Deadpool.
Back to DC, Black Adam is (occasionally) an anti-hero. So is Bane. And Catman. At least in Secret Six, pre 52.

Snyder, and you obviously, fantasise that Batman is an anti-hero.

Almost a century of documented history and legions and generations of fans would suggest otherwise.
But thank you for taking time out to explain why the rest of us don't get the movie you saw.
Because the movie you were watching only existed inside your own mind.

Well done. You convinced me. I don't know why the rest of the entire world never realised this agout Batman.
Well, sinces 1941 anyway.
Batman's NOT the good guy!! That's why the police work with him. The same way, that they work with the Punisher.
Of course, the JL is full of anti-heroes. Oh and Superman. Because he's good. Batman's not.
That's why they are defined historically as the World's Finest.
Now DC will have to retcon their entire history as you've just managed to explain to them that all their writers just haven't understood the character for over 75 years.
Because of what you invented within your own mind.
Thank you Zack! Thank you Jaxon! Thanks to you, the scales have now fallen from my eyes!!!! (Is this the part of my Knightmare where the para-demon appears? Or is it the Bat-creature?)
Someone around here definitely needs to wake up.

No, he clearly knows Bruce is Batman at the party. I have no problem with that part of the narrative.
Just as it is blindingly obvious that Lex knows who they both are, which I've seen as an unfair criticism from some who don't understand why Lex would care about introducing a reporter to a billionaire. Except, the only reason he would, is if he does know and it is revealed later that he does indeed know both their identities - so what's the criticism?
What's never explained is how, not that I think that's important, but what I do think is important is that Bruce should know who Clark is first.
Snyder's go-to for Bat-facts is Miller and he's always portrays Batman as the smartest person in any room, even when otherwise completely unhinged.
In All-Star, he knew all of the secret identities, even knowing Clark could fly when Clark didn't (how was never explained - because he's the Goddamn Batman seems reason enough for Miller by then)
In MoS, Lois figured out Superman was Clark in record time, before there even was a Superman.
Batman can't? After obsessing for 2 yrs?
Even if I bought into the completely uncharacteristic idea others have proposed, (that he's so damaged his brain can't do detective work anymore, which your points above show is not the case anyway), with his resources he couldn't employ someone to replicate Lois's investigative feat?
Even if he's committed to being entirely self contained, I have to wonder about other Robins. If that's Todd's suit on display, where's Dick? Is there a Tim?
What's Alfred doing, except trying to dissuade and look pensive? Surely he'd be capable of investigating on his own. If there is a Dick or Tim, then I find it incomprehensible that Alfred wouldn't have contacted them for support.
I cannot accept that the character as depicted on-screen would simply try and prevent Bruce from becoming a murderer with a few ironic or portentous remarks and then leave it for the chips to fall as they may.
There are just too many other holes. Why didn't Superman save Martha himself? Because Batman wants to do it to make up for misjudging and trying to kill him?
That's hardly a compelling reason, given that relationship dynamic. I wouldn't let Batman go there, if I was Supes, especially since I could be in and out before the mercs even knew I was in the building. It again doesn't pass the logic test.
Trust the guy who just tried to kill me and was clearly unhinged a few minutes ago to save my mother? Or go myself?
Why wouldn't I go save my Mother and let Batman tackle the other lone, non-powered billionaire instead of letting the non-powered Batman tackle a warehouse full of heavily armed mercenaries holding my mother hostage.
Which scenario seems safest for Martha?
It would deprive us the best 2 minutes in the whole movie though.
This goes to the other unfair criticism, that Superman didn't try to talk to Batman before the fight. That's not true. He did, and Batman completely ignored him. He didn't react to being called Bruce, Superman's admission that he was wrong, or care at all what he had to say.
Superman does start off trying to engage, but then doesn't take advantage of repeated opportunities to do so.
Instead of finishing what he started to say when the sonics first hit, he makes repeated threats designed to provoke not pacify.
Instead of "Stay down", why not "Lex has my mother"? He has opportunities to use the "Save Martha" line twice after knocking Bats down, lengthy moments before the first K-attack, but chose instead to hover and threaten.
The biggest problem though is that Batman is repeatedly portrayed as the dumbest most unrepentant thug in the movie. Except when his intellect is suddenly required to advance the plot.

This is your main error in judgement - you base your claims and disagreements with other interpretations on the fact that the characters behaviours have to be as they are to make sense for this story. The problem is firstly, that many of these scenes simply don't make sense logically, but where it falls over completely is that this story doesn't make sense for these characters at all.

It's not about "My" Batman. It's "The" Batman. My "fanciful version of Batman" has been around far longer than this movie version has or will be. By your own admission, the version that most fans took exception to is presumed to be gone and replaced by "my" version by the end of the movie!
That fact alone seems to more than enough vindication for "my" version.
If you think a 2.5hr movie deserves to supplant the weight of almost a century of history and far better, more insightful and more popular incarnations of the character, across a range of media, then you're never going to understand the nature of this films failure to be an unqualified smash hit and why your defenses don't convince the majority on this board.

Rightly or wrongly, these type of films, especially this one in particular, will never be judged solely on their own in isolation.
They will always be held up against the standards set in canon. And justifiably found wanting.

The best test for whether these IP movies stand on their own merits or not would be the GA reception, represented by it's legs.
In terms of legs, it looks like an I-beam may have been knocked onto those, presumably during the battle between Superman and Zod.
Those things are stumps.

So the GA, unencumbered by preconceptions from comic history, didn't like it much either.
That says the story, irrespective of the revision or deconstruction of the iconic heroes, was not good enough for people to recommend it to their friends or family.
That's a simple fact of the BO.
For example, I actually loved Watchmen. But it's very apparent that I am in the minority and I can clearly see and understand why.

Just as I, and many others who don't like BvS, can clearly see what they're going for here; Broken Bat, turned around by poor unappreciated, burdened Superman, hope returned to both and the world at large when he commits attention-seeking petulant suicide, I mean of course noble sacrifice (completely unnecessary, preventable sacrifice) etc etc.
I just find it very poorly conceived and poorly executed.
What they are really trying to do (I hope) is set the end of this movie up as a justifiable turning point to ditch the unpopular, non-canonical versions of the Snyder Murderverse and go more mainstream.
I get it.
I'm not actually convinced that "JL will be lighter in tone, much more of a crowd pleaser, more suited to Snyder's talents as a filmaker". Said WB PR, who have clearly never watched Zack Snyders previous movies.
If the Knightmare scene was an allusion to what's planned for JL, yeah, that's clearly MUCH lighter in tone.

Your assertion that Batman has to be dumbed down or Lex becomes irrelevant and can only function as a character if he can manipulate Batman?
That's demonstrably ridiculous, except perhaps in this incompetent example of one-dimensional characterisation and poor storytelling.
Examine the works of Loeb, Morrison, Johns, and many others who have and continue to create best-selling, critically acclaimed fan favourite story arcs around the very premise you claim cannot work.
Having Batman be smarter than Lex certainly hasn't hurt the comics.
But then, they don't confuse the symbolic use of jars of piss with competent or complex narrative either.
Some of the few highlights of DC's new 52 have been the interactions between the almost equal yet opposites of Batman and Lex.
This is what accomplished writers familiar with these characters can achieve.
Stupid as a plot device is only required if the writer isn't smart enough to deal with numerous smart characters at once. Not that there was any real evidence of that in the film, just over-use of Deus Ex Machina moments in lieu of intelligent storytelling or consistent characterisation.
The director's cut may change my mind but I doubt it.

Attempting to divorce these characterisations from the comic source also ignores the fact that Snyder keeps referring to his Batman as Miller's Batman.
Who is the smartest man on the planet. Smarter than Lex. Who is also a genius.
Of course, Miller's portrayal of Superman in TDKR was also the most insulting I'd seen at that point.
Yet Snyder demonstrably doesn't understand Miller's Batman as he misquotes and misrepresents both the character and the events in Millers work during interviews.
The idea that Batman needs to be portrayed as Rorschach first just so Superman can redeem him from being a murderous psychopath is nonsensical, when there was absolutely no need to present him that way in the first place.
"Criminals like weeds" doesn't substantiate your claims to me, which aren't on screen, but mostly are taken from comments Affleck made during pre-release interviews about Batman's motivations for fighting Superman.
"Criminals are like Weeds" is a quote used repeatedly in comics, by heroes and other characters that are yet to turn into murderous psychopaths (except when used by the Punisher), or become so overwhelmed at their relative ineffectuality that they obsessively plan the murder of their more powerful peers. Sounds like a plot point for a sequel to Glengarry Glenn Ross.
There simply isn't enough dialogue in the film to establish any of the characters motivations coherently without relying on these external sources, including one shot comics that actually attempt to provide the missing detail required to make sense of the characters in the movie.
Or, in the case where the film actually takes the time to establish Batman's motives pretty definitively, you come up and claim that the one time the film had a coherent narrative it was actually saying something else.
That is either a terrible creative decision on WB's part, a massively cynical one, or a fast-tracked attempt at damage control after the execs saw the finished product.
You can't rely on people picking up external material required to make more sense of your movie.
Or rely on the creative imagination of their viewers.
Maybe they'll be fleshed out in the DC, maybe the missing dialogue and scenes that could redeem this amateurishly tacked together offering are in the 90 minutes of footage WB left on the cutting room floor, but I doubt it.
We'll find out in a few weeks.

You're on a roll :up:
 
So the fact that Bruce and Clark have mothers with the same name is convenient.

So?

Movies, especially superhero movies of late, often rely on various coincidences.

Why is this such a huge issue for people? Why, in this movie, are movies suddenly not allowed to have coincidences happen?

Why, in this film, is it suddenly poor writing to massage reality a little, to have Clark say "Martha" instead of "My mom"? I get why it's not uber realistic...but at the end of the day, this is a movie. Movies don't always present the most realistic series of events.

If the film actually made Batman just stop because their mothers had the same name..ok, I would get the dislike.

But that's not what the film shows happening. The film shows a very vulnerable Bruce realizing how far he has fallen (they even flashback to him FALLING again), and being disgusted with himself and what he has almost done. But people just seem to ignore this because a word is said before this realization.

And at the end of the day, it boggles my mind that comic book fans are essentially whining because Bruce and Clark reached a shaky understanding at least in part because of their love for their parents. And are complaining about THAT.

I’m seeing cynicism coming into play here more and more, and it's disappointing.

I don't think anyone has any issue with the fact that Supes and Bats find a "connection" because their mother's have the same name. I think the issue people have is with the execution of the moment and, well, essentially the entire setup to get to that point.

Just my opinion of course...
 
Snyder has said that Lois had buried all previous clues that led her to find Clark's identity and has continued to do it.


That bit must also be on the cutting room floor. Except what Lois did in MoS was work her way back through witnesses from their meeting point in Canada.
Has she been burying eye witnesses?

Her advantage over Batman was she had an origin point for their first meeting that she could start backtracking him from.
Her evidence would have been largely eye-witnesses, who would have identified her photofit and probably given her the alias he was using - assuming he was changing names as he went.
The only other sources would be news reports and police reports.
So, Lois is burying people and somehow, in this digital age, she's able to delete news and police reports in at least 2 countries. But we'd have to assume that if there's evidence in Canada and America, it would be in other places he's been too.
So Lois is also a serial killer and somehow now Oracle as well in the Snyderverse?
Or maybe he just makes this crap up as he's called on it in interviews.
The place to firm up the movies narrative is THE MOVIE. Not make up excuses afterwards. Lois buries the clues. Really? What about when Clark's doing his good deeds overseas or out in space?
If he left a fingerprint imprinted in the Russian rocket, did she rush over there and bury that clue? What about the biggest clue of all - that he always shows up to save Lois? Is she going to bury herself?
It gets more and more ridiculous.
 
As for Batman he is purposely portrayed as a man who has lost his touch with humanity after doing this for so long and seen so much go wrong and achieved nothing as a result (criminals are like weeds.) This is for the purpose of having Superman redeem the humanity he has lost and returned him back to the Batman that we know. That in my book is bold and a really beautiful arc for Bruce. Instead of trying to force your Batman into this story, maybe look at it from the view that Batman has returned to your Batman by the end due to the acts of Superman, which again, is incredibly faithful to who Superman is to everyone.

....and the thing is, you don't see a problem with this characterisation at all, do you? You don't have a problem with one of the most noble and heroic superheroes of all time, whose legend has endured for 75 years, being reduced to a bitter, self-loathing cynic, who requires a dubious bit of sacrifice on another character's part to restore his faith in his mission.

You have no issue with this.

And that, of course, is perfectly fine. You are more than entitled to think that way.

But this is supposed to be the beginning of the DCEU. Supposed to be the springboard from which all DC movies are made. In what universe is it therefore a good idea to start put with a character who is barely recognisable as Batman outside the suit and gadgets?

It is a not a bold and beautiful arc to portray Batman essentially as a murdering loser whose entire life has been a waste of time - and who only regains his faith in the world thanks to the death of a man he's only known a couple of days, someone he despised until he realised their mother's share the same name.
 
What about the 1% speech. Essentially Batman's reasoning for wanting to destroy Superman. It is patently absurd logic.
Lets apply the reasoning to anything else.

"If there is even a 1% chance that North Korea will bomb us we have to take it as an absolute certainty. They must be destroyed".

"If there is even a 1% chance that this person that has just walked into my store is a shop lifter I have to take it as an absolute certainty, Call security".

"If there is even a 1% chance that a muslim could be a terrorist, we have to take it as an absolute certainty. We must destroy the religion

"If there is even a 1% chance that this person drinking in my pub could turn violent, I must take it as an absolute certainty, Kick him out".

If there is even a 1% chance that Iraq have Weapons of mass destruction, we must take it as an absolute certainty. They must be destroyed". oh....wait......

I cannot believe that this idea went from the script, to the director, actor. etc....and no one said. hold on. this is absurd......How did it get through?

There is so much wrong with this film. It honesly amazes me.

I get the defensive logic there. Superman differs from most of those because of how impossible his power would be to deter, should that ever be necessary, so trusting him at all can be a costly mistake. That is Batman's questionable and intentionally controversial logic, fine.

The issue is how easy it loses all weight at that key moment, indicating how outright insufficient the intellectual support behind his 1% logic was all along. Have Batman believe that, go ahead. It makes him as ahole, but he's been that in the comics too and everyone knew that conviction would go away by the end of the film.

But follow through with it. Until the end, not until when it stops supporting your idea of high drama. The mind that can cook up that cold righteousness can clearly be expected to also reach, way ahead of time, the conclusions that his Martha "epiphany" gave him , sans requiring a mere detail to trigger anything. "Gasp... he has a HUMAN MOM!" Bullcrap, he could have figured as much on his own, knowing he had grown up on Earth. The issue of the name coincidence does trigger an emotional response -- but on someone who did not let emotion stop him, at any point, from cooking up a nasty attack plan on someone he considered dangerous. Yet had never given him solid reasons to think that, beyond mere theory.

Summing up, you don't need background knowledge of comics' Batman to expect this, or any other tech-savy, highly trained strategist to be an intelligent character. They're not trampling on "canon Batman", but on people's familiarity with the ol' process of human rationalization, I think.
 
Spoiler alert for Daredevil, geeze.

As for Batman not being as smart as Luthor. It falls apart because Batman is useless in Justice League unless his genius is at the highest level. This version is not even on the level of Keaton, Kilmer, Clooney or Bale. So why is this shared universe even happening?

Nobody cares about SchuBatman, save 15 people on this forum.

[YT]7UGMe73Y9gw[/YT]
 
So the fact that Bruce and Clark have mothers with the same name is convenient.

So?

Movies, especially superhero movies of late, often rely on various coincidences.

Why is this such a huge issue for people? Why, in this movie, are movies suddenly not allowed to have coincidences happen?

Why, in this film, is it suddenly poor writing to massage reality a little, to have Clark say "Martha" instead of "My mom"? I get why it's not uber realistic...but at the end of the day, this is a movie. Movies don't always present the most realistic series of events.

If the film actually made Batman just stop because their mothers had the same name..ok, I would get the dislike.

But that's not what the film shows happening. The film shows a very vulnerable Bruce realizing how far he has fallen (they even flashback to him FALLING again), and being disgusted with himself and what he has almost done. But people just seem to ignore this because a word is said before this realization.

And at the end of the day, it boggles my mind that comic book fans are essentially whining because Bruce and Clark reached a shaky understanding at least in part because of their love for their parents. And are complaining about THAT.

I’m seeing cynicism coming into play here more and more, and it's disappointing.

Hey, I'm glad it worked for you and others. I think there's a nice sentiment behind the idea.

For a movie titled BATMAN V SUPERMAN, it just felt a little too convenient and rushed for my liking as the catalyst for the turning point of the entire titular conflict.

It just makes me frustrated that Bruce and Clark DO have mothers with the same name in the lore, because if that coincidence weren't the case maybe they would have come up with a more compelling and less seemingly contrived way for them to resolve their conflict when writing this movie. It's just a strange choice to me. Maybe it seemed clever and elegant on paper and Snyder's execution didn't do it justice. Maybe they fancied "Martha" as their "Rosebud" and thought it would carry more weight. I really don't know, but it just makes me wonder if having Batman fight Superman in their first cinematic meeting was a sound basis to rest an entire movie on at all if that was the best resolution and overall scenario for the fight they could come up with.

I'll give BvS this though, even with all the faults I find with it, it's still worlds better than the absolute dreck that was Andrew Kevin Walker's Batman Vs. Superman script.
 
Wait, I thought Grandmas Peach Tea was the "Rosebud" of the film. Now I'm confused.
 
The issue is how easy it loses all weight at that key moment, indicating how outright insufficient the intellectual support behind his 1% logic was all along. Have Batman believe that, go ahead. It makes him as ahole, but he's been that in the comics too and everyone knew that conviction would go away by the end of the film.

But follow through with it. Until the end, not until when it stops supporting your idea of high drama. The mind that can cook up that cold righteousness can clearly be expected to also reach, way ahead of time, the conclusions that his Martha "epiphany" gave him , sans requiring a mere detail to trigger anything. "Gasp... he has a HUMAN MOM!" Bullcrap, he could have figured as much on his own, knowing he had grown up on Earth. The issue of the name coincidence does trigger an emotional response -- but on someone who did not let emotion stop him, at any point, from cooking up a nasty attack plan on someone he considered dangerous. Yet had never given him solid reasons to think that, beyond mere theory.

What does the fact that Batman's feelings about Superman are ultimately irrational tell you, in relation to how the character is portrayed?

It should tell you that Batman's feelings about Superman are not rational in the first place, and are emotionally driven from his trauma.

Now, we can argue all day long about whether they even should have shown a Batman this susceptible to his feelings and devoid of the ability to reason with regard to this incident/Superman, but the argument that somehow Batman has a rational reason for hating Superman and it just magically falls apart at the end is invalid.

Batman's reason for hating Superman was never purely rational. The film makes that pretty clear, and so does the fight.
 
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The last few pages are inspiring me to do a Stuckmann with the infamous Martha scene... I don't think the Hype is ready for it. :(
 
For the sake of all those who are complaining about the Martha scene, I hope there is a friendly humorous exchange between Batman and Superman in a future Justice League film where Batman asks Superman why he called his mom "Martha" when his foot was on Supes' blowpipe. :sly:

Batman: Why did you call your mom "Martha" when I was standing on your Kryptonian throat?

Superman: (....) **** You! (Flies away)

Batman: That's not cool. You will bleed once again.
 
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I don't think anyone has any issue with the fact that Supes and Bats find a "connection" because their mother's have the same name. I think the issue people have is with the execution of the moment and, well, essentially the entire setup to get to that point.

Just my opinion of course...

Thank you. It's one of the reasons it didn't work for me.
 
So the fact that Bruce and Clark have mothers with the same name is convenient.

So?

Movies, especially superhero movies of late, often rely on various coincidences.

Why is this such a huge issue for people? Why, in this movie, are movies suddenly not allowed to have coincidences happen?

Why, in this film, is it suddenly poor writing to massage reality a little, to have Clark say "Martha" instead of "My mom"? I get why it's not uber realistic...but at the end of the day, this is a movie. Movies don't always present the most realistic series of events.

If the film actually made Batman just stop because their mothers had the same name..ok, I would get the dislike.

But that's not what the film shows happening. The film shows a very vulnerable Bruce realizing how far he has fallen (they even flashback to him FALLING again), and being disgusted with himself and what he has almost done. But people just seem to ignore this because a word is said before this realization.

And at the end of the day, it boggles my mind that comic book fans are essentially whining because Bruce and Clark reached a shaky understanding at least in part because of their love for their parents. And are complaining about THAT.

I’m seeing cynicism coming into play here more and more, and it's disappointing.

People are less forgiving of little mistakes, conveniences, and nitpicks that are present in most movies if the movie in question is terrible. It just makes those moments stand out that much more. This isn't some new phenomenon.
 
One of the best videos I've ever seen for the film.

[YT]9FKX1Jm-NNc[/YT]

Compares how Snyder went at approaching Batman to how Nolan approached Batman.

Long story short, Nolan wanted to make movies while Snyder makes CGI cluster****s.
 
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Decided to see this film one last time in the theatre before it gets snuffed out by Marvel Movie #13 called CIVIL WAR and it's just as good as it was on the first viewing to this sixth one.

I made peace a long time ago with this film being divisive, being the butt of jokes, and etc...to fandom and the critical community at large. It is what it is. You take the good and the bad and you guys can go in circles, tying yourself in knots to knock this film for the next 20 months until JUSTICE LEAGUE is released and the same arguments will be had over and over again about Zack Snyder.

Zack Snyder speaks my language when it comes to this genre, just like Christopher Nolan did. Different approaches but both equally powerful in execution. I'm stoked for JUSTICE LEAGUE. I can't wait to see what this Ultimate Edition brings to the table.

To those who have sworn off WB, the Snyderverse, and JUSTICE LEAGUE...see you in 20 months because we all know you'll be there in the end. This is what fans do.
 
The fact that Batman and Superman's mothers have the same first name was always at best an amusing piece of trivia. An amusing coincidence.

Its not a strong foundation to use to have them go from "FIGHT OF THE CENTURY BATMAN WANTS TO KILL SUPERMAN" to "BATMAN AND SUPERMAN ARE NOW FRIENDS". That just doesn't work.

I mean what is the takeaway? That Batman's motivations and concerns about Superman being a potential threat to humankind go out the window just because he was raised by a woman with the same name as his mom?

What would Batman's reaction have been if Clark's mother was named Lisa instead of Martha? Would he have still cared? Would Superman had been "humanized" in his eyes if that trivial connection wasn't there?

That is why that moment doesn't work.
 
To those who have sworn off WB, the Snyderverse, and JUSTICE LEAGUE...see you in 20 months because we all know you'll be there in the end. This is what fans do.
I heard Michael B. Jordan say something very similar before Fantastic Four came out.
 
It's very funny how so few of you realize that Henry Cavill is actually just a s****y f*****g actor with a resemblance to the character

I guess looks are enough for you, not for me though. I would take a good actor that moderately resembles the character than a ****ing awful actor who ruins scenes, but looks the part

In time you guys will realize that Welling, Routh and especially Reeve are all far superior to Cavill.

It's a real shame we didn't get a continuation of Superman Returns. SR was a misstep, but I suspect that the sequel would at least be better than MOS and BVS

This is yet another example of "don't judge a book by its cover"

Cavill sucks :)

Chris Evans is a way better Superman and he's not even playing the character

With Cavill in the Role, I PROMISE you , Superman won't catch on with modern audiences. They should really recast. This version of the character will never be a success and keep wishing for that Superman sequel. It ain't happening


We honestly need a reboot so so bad but it's too late for that , so I can only hope that big changes wil be made
 
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I heard Michael B. Jordan say something very similar before Fantastic Four came out.

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It's very funny how so few of you realize that Henry Cavill is actually just a s****y f*****g actor with a resemblance to the character

I guess looks are enough for you, not for me though. I would take a good actor that moderately resembles the character than a ****ing awful actor who ruins scenes, but looks the part

In time you guys will realize that Welling, Routh and especially Reeve are all far superior to Cavill.

It's a real shame we didn't get a continuation of Superman Returns. SR was a misstep, but I suspect that the sequel would at least be better than MOS and BVS

This is yet another example of "don't judge a book by its cover"

Cavill sucks :)

Chris Evans is a way better Superman and he's not even playing the character

With Cavill in the Role, I PROMISE you , Superman won't catch on with modern audiences. They should really recast. This version of the character will never be a success and keep wishing for that Superman sequel. It ain't happening


We honestly need a reboot so so bad but it's too late for that , so I can only hope that big changes wil be made
Superman Returns? BRO, lemme tell yea, Superman didn't punch people in Superman Returns. How can a film be good without any punching? BRO.

Man of Steel and Batman v Superman, has, like, badass action scenes where Superman throws people through buildings. Dude. BRO.

That's what makes a good film BRO.
 
It's very funny how so few of you realize that Henry Cavill is actually just a s****y f*****g actor with a resemblance to the character

I guess looks are enough for you, not for me though. I would take a good actor that moderately resembles the character than a ****ing awful actor who ruins scenes, but looks the part

In time you guys will realize that Welling, Routh and especially Reeve are all far superior to Cavill.

It's a real shame we didn't get a continuation of Superman Returns. SR was a misstep, but I suspect that the sequel would at least be better than MOS and BVS

This is yet another example of "don't judge a book by its cover"

Cavill sucks :)

Chris Evans is a way better Superman and he's not even playing the character

With Cavill in the Role, I PROMISE you , Superman won't catch on with modern audiences. They should really recast. This version of the character will never be a success and keep wishing for that Superman sequel. It ain't happening


We honestly need a reboot so so bad but it's too late for that , so I can only hope that big changes wil be made

Cavill is fine and can act rings around Welling and Routh.
 
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