BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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Lol so hard at when Cavill says "don't play games with me, general"

This is literally Goosebumps level acting that we get from this guy. Without that face , he would never have gotten any parts in Hollywood
 
Henry Cavill ****ing sucks. End of story. Sh** actor

Reeve>Routh>Welling>Cavill

This is indisputable, if you are a big fan of Cavill, you are either attracted to him or have horrible taste. He is not a good actor. Bottom line. As time goes on, this will become more and more clear I promise you

Time will be kinder to those previous Supermen, they're all far better actors. Time will not be kind to Cavill. He is just a pretty face
 
I heard Michael B. Jordan say something very similar before Fantastic Four came out.

He ain't wrong. Wait til JUSTICE LEAGUE trailers and images come out. The ones who said they're done won't be done. It's the nature of fandom. Nobody wants to be left out, especially when it's good.
 
That bit must also be on the cutting room floor. Except what Lois did in MoS was work her way back through witnesses from their meeting point in Canada.
Has she been burying eye witnesses?

Her advantage over Batman was she had an origin point for their first meeting that she could start backtracking him from.
Her evidence would have been largely eye-witnesses, who would have identified her photofit and probably given her the alias he was using - assuming he was changing names as he went.
The only other sources would be news reports and police reports.
So, Lois is burying people and somehow, in this digital age, she's able to delete news and police reports in at least 2 countries. But we'd have to assume that if there's evidence in Canada and America, it would be in other places he's been too.
So Lois is also a serial killer and somehow now Oracle as well in the Snyderverse?
Or maybe he just makes this crap up as he's called on it in interviews.
The place to firm up the movies narrative is THE MOVIE. Not make up excuses afterwards. Lois buries the clues. Really? What about when Clark's doing his good deeds overseas or out in space?
If he left a fingerprint imprinted in the Russian rocket, did she rush over there and bury that clue? What about the biggest clue of all - that he always shows up to save Lois? Is she going to bury herself?
It gets more and more ridiculous.
That's part of the reason for Superman/Clark's death at the end because being able to maintain a secret identity isn't something realistic.
 
Henry Cavill ****ing sucks. End of story. Sh** actor

Reeve>Routh>Welling>Cavill

This is indisputable, if you are a big fan of Cavill, you are either attracted to him or have horrible taste. He is not a good actor. Bottom line. As time goes on, this will become more and more clear I promise you

Time will be kinder to those previous Supermen, they're all far better actors. Time will not be kind to Cavill. He is just a pretty face

You OKay buddy?
 
That's part of the reason for Superman/Clark's death at the end because being able to maintain a secret identity isn't something realistic.

Oh come the **** on.

I am tired of this ****ing realistic direction.

If Batman can maintain an identity in the Nolan Batman films and Spider-Man can maintain an identity in the Raimi, Webb, and MCU; then why the **** can't Superman in the DCEU?

Superman isn't ****ing Superman and anyone who thinks so doesn't know Superman.

Superman has always been Clark. Clark Kent isn't a disguise. Clark Kent is who Superman is. Clark was raised by humans, taught by humans, grew up with humans, had human friends, human lovers, pays taxes like humans, goes to movies like a human so on and so forth.

Clark Kent has never been an alien. He's a human being. Superman is an extension of Clark Kent like Spider-Man is for Peter Parker. Superman isn't the opposite of Clark. Clark doesn't live 2 lives like Daredevil and Batman with who they are under the mask is totally different then who they are with the mask.

I am tired of this ****ing ****** realistic direction and tone. Nobody goes to movies for ****ing realism. While Nolan did take the realistic direction with Batman; there still was that escapist mentality of the films.

You can't tell me that Batman can be Batman for 20 years and have a secret identity and Superman can't because "it's not realistic".
 
Cavill seems like a nice guy and comports himself well, but I do think his Superman, i.e. Sndyer's version of the character, has a stench around it given MOS and BvS. At this point he's associated with a version which has been polarizing at best.
 
Oh come the **** on.

I am tired of this ****ing realistic direction.

If Batman can maintain an identity in the Nolan Batman films and Spider-Man can maintain an identity in the Raimi, Webb, and MCU; then why the **** can't Superman in the DCEU?

Superman isn't ****ing Superman and anyone who thinks so doesn't know Superman.

Superman has always been Clark. Clark Kent isn't a disguise. Clark Kent is who Superman is. Clark was raised by humans, taught by humans, grew up with humans, had human friends, human lovers, pays taxes like humans, goes to movies like a human so on and so forth.

Clark Kent has never been an alien. He's a human being. Superman is an extension of Clark Kent like Spider-Man is for Peter Parker. Superman isn't the opposite of Clark. Clark doesn't live 2 lives like Daredevil and Batman with who they are under the mask is totally different then who they are with the mask.

I am tired of this ****ing ****** realistic direction and tone. Nobody goes to movies for ****ing realism. While Nolan did take the realistic direction with Batman; there still was that escapist mentality of the films.

You can't tell me that Batman can be Batman for 20 years and have a secret identity and Superman can't because "it's not realistic".


You are my bro, we agree on so much. If u and me were in charge at DC, things would be so much better.

I would recast the whole thing. Affleck even left me wanting more. Bale and Keaton are still superior
 
Henry Cavill ****ing sucks. End of story. Sh** actor

Reeve>Routh>Welling>Cavill

This is indisputable, if you are a big fan of Cavill, you are either attracted to him or have horrible taste. He is not a good actor. Bottom line. As time goes on, this will become more and more clear I promise you

Time will be kinder to those previous Supermen, they're all far better actors. Time will not be kind to Cavill. He is just a pretty face

OR......they have a different OPINION than you do....I know, it's a fantastical unbelievable idea....but I can assure you....there are people out there that do not think exactly like you do about everything....I dare say there are some that don't think exactly like you about anything....but I'm afraid that just by stating that I have set in motion an emotional breakdown by you...so I will just move on and say...decaf....yoga....staring at drying paint....some great ways to keep the blood pressure down and eyes in their sockets.
 
Oh come the **** on.

I am tired of this ****ing realistic direction.

I recommend the decaf, yoga, and staring at drying paint for you too.
 
I liked Cavill in man from UNCLE. He might no have the greatest range but he can deliver his thing well.
 
Man, remember when the comic-con trailer for BvS came out, and how exciting that all was? As a massive DC fan, I hate to say this, but sometimes I feel like WB/DC is very good at building hype but their final products rarely deliver.

Like seriously, the last 4 or 5 DC films I got hyped for were either disappointing or flat out bad. I'm kind of sick of WB/DC incompetence.
 
They should've changed the ending of TDKR. Batman would train Robin (Dick Grayson not that little b***h boy John Blake) and it would set up MOS

The DCEU sucks
 
Cavill is fine and can act rings around Welling and Routh.

Fine? I'd agree with that, but with a caveat - fine as an actor in general (U.N.C.L.E.), although not as Superman by virtue of how little he's had to work with. As for running rings around those other two? That's really pushing it. He isn't an elite actor by any stretch of the imagination.

That's part of the reason for Superman/Clark's death at the end because being able to maintain a secret identity isn't something realistic.

That's a non-answer.

I'd also like to add that AndrewOz is killing these arguments.
 
They should've changed the ending of TDKR. Batman would train Robin (Dick Grayson not that little b***h boy John Blake) and it would set up MOS

The DCEU sucks

You sound so jaded and heartbroken. It's okay dude, I feel the same way. These DC characters and we DC fans deserve better.

You know what sucks the most? When the trailer for Justice League hits, I'll stupidly let myself get hyped for it, knowing deep down that it will disappoint me or it won't be good. I've been burned by DC/WB too many times.
 
I liked Cavill in man from UNCLE. He might no have the greatest range but he can deliver his thing well.

True. He might not have the best range but he had a better range than Routh from what I can remember. The thing is I was one of the guys who was upset Routh got replaced because he LOOKS so much like Christopher Reeve.
 
Henry Cavill ****ing sucks. End of story. Sh** actor

Reeve>Routh>Welling>Cavill

This is indisputable, if you are a big fan of Cavill, you are either attracted to him or have horrible taste. He is not a good actor. Bottom line. As time goes on, this will become more and more clear I promise you

Time will be kinder to those previous Supermen, they're all far better actors. Time will not be kind to Cavill. He is just a pretty face

Wow, what a horrible thing to say.

There's nothing wrong with disliking Cavill. I have no beef with that at all. But this attitude that he sucks is a fact and others have terrible taste? Awful, awful thing to say.

Also, it's possible to be attracted to him (I am not afraid to admit I am) and think he's a good actor (I do, most of the time). If I did think he sucked, I'd just admit it and continue thinking he's hot. Also, many of the people who like him on here are male. Are all of them attracted to him? Oh, I guess those are the ones that have terrible taste.

That whole post of yours comes off like someone who's angry that other people like something he doesn't like. It's fine to dislike the movie and anything about it, but taking your anger out on other posters who have differing opinions is ridiculous and rude.
 
Oh come the **** on.

I am tired of this ****ing realistic direction.

If Batman can maintain an identity in the Nolan Batman films and Spider-Man can maintain an identity in the Raimi, Webb, and MCU; then why the **** can't Superman in the DCEU?

Superman isn't ****ing Superman and anyone who thinks so doesn't know Superman.

Superman has always been Clark. Clark Kent isn't a disguise. Clark Kent is who Superman is. Clark was raised by humans, taught by humans, grew up with humans, had human friends, human lovers, pays taxes like humans, goes to movies like a human so on and so forth.

Clark Kent has never been an alien. He's a human being. Superman is an extension of Clark Kent like Spider-Man is for Peter Parker. Superman isn't the opposite of Clark. Clark doesn't live 2 lives like Daredevil and Batman with who they are under the mask is totally different then who they are with the mask.

I am tired of this ****ing ****** realistic direction and tone. Nobody goes to movies for ****ing realism. While Nolan did take the realistic direction with Batman; there still was that escapist mentality of the films.

You can't tell me that Batman can be Batman for 20 years and have a secret identity and Superman can't because "it's not realistic".

It's unrealistic for the audience to accept that Clark can walk around as a journalist and everyone is oblivious to him as Superman. Clark is still Superman on his rebirth he just won't be an out in the open journalist. Marvel didn't do the whole Iron Man is Tony Starks bodyguard persona because the audience won't accept a world that dumb.

The solution they've presented to remove this ambiguity makes more sense than what I'm reading above.
 
If you can't make the Clark Kent persona work in the name of realism than you shouldn't be taking on the character.
 
It's unrealistic for the audience to accept that Clark can walk around as a journalist and everyone is oblivious to him as Superman. Clark is still Superman on his rebirth he just won't be an out in the open journalist. Marvel didn't do the whole Iron Man is Tony Starks bodyguard persona because the audience won't accept a world that dumb.

The solution they've presented to remove this ambiguity makes more sense than what I'm reading above.

So in the Raimi Spidey series, Peter Parker is the only photographer who can get a photo of Spider-Man and they made that work were the characters and world didn't come off like idiots and the audience was able to accept it.....

But we can't have Clark be a journalist which he's been for for 78 years in the comics, in movies, in TV, in animation?

What in God's Earth makes Snyder's take so special where Clark can't be a journalist? Why on Earth would people think that the audience wouldn't accept a world where Superman is a journalist when he's been one for years?

Your statement makes no sense when countless other adaptions have made the world not feel dumb for Clark being a journalist but all the sudden it's dumb because it's Snyder's take?

This is a man who can shoot lasers out of his eyes, who can fly, and wears a red and blue costume. What part of that makes this a realistic world?
 
If you can't make the Clark Kent persona work in the name of realism than you shouldn't be taking on the character.

I agree. The Clark persona was handled terribly in BvS. It was almost completely disregarded. It's a real missed opportunity to add some fun contrast between supes and Clark. I was also hoping we'd finally see Clark do some reporting and help some folks in a smaller way, but nope. They told us he was reporting on batman and left it at that. Even Clark, in his minuscule appearance, was frowning constantly.
 
If you guys hate the DCEU, Cavill, Snyder and co. so much why are you on this thread constantly repeating it. Go outside or watch the TDKT or the cartoons or read comics on repeat. They ain't gonna recast anyone, this is what we've got for the next decade. Accept it. I feel like this girl from Mean Girls now

latest
 
So in the Raimi Spidey series, Peter Parker is the only photographer who can get a photo of Spider-Man and they made that work were the characters and world didn't come off like idiots and the audience was able to accept it.....

But we can't have Clark be a journalist which he's been for for 78 years in the comics, in movies, in TV, in animation?

What in God's Earth makes Snyder's take so special where Clark can't be a journalist? Why on Earth would people think that the audience wouldn't accept a world where Superman is a journalist when he's been one for years?

Your statement makes no sense when countless other adaptions have made the world not feel dumb for Clark being a journalist but all the sudden it's dumb because it's Snyder's take?

This is a man who can shoot lasers out of his eyes, who can fly, and wears a red and blue costume. What part of that makes this a realistic world?

So will you accept that Perry White is the dumbest person on Earth for not knowing who Clark is? You can't, that completely makes the tone of the movie campy like Raimi's Spiderman movies. You want Perry to be Jay Jonah Jameson then?

On your logic then you must be upset that Superman isn't wearing underwear on the outside.
 
The fact that Batman and Superman's mothers have the same first name was always at best an amusing piece of trivia. An amusing coincidence.

And it's still a coincidence here.

Its not a strong foundation to use to have them go from "FIGHT OF THE CENTURY BATMAN WANTS TO KILL SUPERMAN" to "BATMAN AND SUPERMAN ARE NOW FRIENDS". That just doesn't work.

Nor is that the foundation that is used to have them go from Batman wanting to kill Superman to them being "friends", which is obviously not the case, but whatever, we'll entertain the hyperbole for the sake of argument.

The foundation that is used is not "My mother's name is Martha too".

The foundation used is that Batman realizes he has gone too far, an innocent (Clark's mother) is in peril and Luthor needs to be stopped.

I mean what is the takeaway? That Batman's motivations and concerns about Superman being a potential threat to humankind go out the window just because he was raised by a woman with the same name as his mom?

No. Where in the film does it even suggest this?

Batman's motivations and concerns about Superman being a potential threat to humankind "go out the window" when he sees that Superman is willing to die to protect others, and since Superman is no longer a threat at the end of the film. In other words, Batman's concerns about Superman go away and he decides he was wrong to mistrust Superman because Superman proves himself to be a true, selfless hero.

What would Batman's reaction have been if Clark's mother was named Lisa instead of Martha? Would he have still cared? Would Superman had been "humanized" in his eyes if that trivial connection wasn't there?

He doesn't care because Clark's mother is named Martha.

He cares because his trauma is triggered and he realizes how far into the darkness he has gone, and that he has almost done something terrible.

Now, Batman's trauma is certainly triggered because Clark's mother happens to be named Martha, but that is not why Batman decides to not kill Superman.

I would imagine the writers would still have made Batman react to how far over the edge he had gone and that he has wronged this other man, since that was the key point of the sequence anyway.

That is why that moment doesn't work.

Except that the word "Martha" has meaning in context. You can't arbitrarily move the goalposts and then say the moment AS IT IS WRITTEN doesn't work because it wouldn't work the same if countless other options were employed. The way they chose to go works because it's the way they chose to portray things, not because it always would have worked with countless other options.

That said, if Superman had said "mom" or "Lisa" or whatever, if the moment still contains the realization that the woman being named is Superman's mother, then the moment STILL could have worked just as well, as that could also trigger Batman's traumatic memories.
 
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