All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

[Kryptonian Warrior]

I get that... But the story was just dum IMO... A stalker/father superman and lex trying to create a continent. Just ahhhhh!

Yeah, I really didn't like the part of Superman of spying on Lois. I really didn't get why that was even added. You would think that Singer and Co. would have figured that would cause backlash. Although I have to say that I'm really curious as to where the story would have gone from there. It would have most likely been a lot more action oriented we would have seen Super villains. Oh well, guess we will never know.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I get that... But the story was just dum IMO... A stalker/father superman and lex trying to create a continent. Just ahhhhh!

It what way is the story "dum"?

I find it funny when people try to claim this, without actually understanding what Lex is trying to do. Lex's plot is to kill Superman, while taking control of the most advance tech known to man. He simply isn't building a new continent. You notice he has plenty of crystals left over?

Superman doesn't fight a rock, he fights Lex Luthor. I honestly don't understand why people think that every Superhero film needs the hero punching someone in the face, especially when that hero could practically blow up anyone that isn't from space with one punch.

Superman as a father worked just fine in the context of the story and he isn't a stalker. Unless of course you considering Superman a stalker in the comics because he has just as many moments spying on Lois without her knowledge.

 

[stargazer]

It what way is the story "dum"?

I find it funny when people try to claim this, without actually understanding what Lex is trying to do. Lex's plot is to kill Superman, while taking control of the most advance tech known to man. He simply isn't building a new continent. You notice he has plenty of crystals left over?

Superman doesn't fight a rock, he fights Lex Luthor. I honestly don't understand why people think that every Superhero film needs the hero punching someone in the face, especially when that hero could practically blow up anyone that isn't from space with one punch.

Superman as a father worked just fine in the context of the story and he isn't a stalker. Unless of course you considering Superman a stalker in the comics because he has just as many moments spying on Lois without her knowledge.

bravo!

IMO, the spying scene was there to show his humanity and alienation; people complain that he's too perfect, but when they give him a moment of weakness people complain as well! It's a No win scenario. Oh well I love SR and that's what matters to me the most. haters gonna hate.

 

[Kryptonian Warrior]

Sorry, I didn't mean to open a can of worms here. Although I do agree and I love SR. In fact, I'm watching it right now. I just got a new home audio system and it sounds absolutely AMAZING!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

bravo!

IMO, the spying scene was there to show his humanity and alienation; people complain that he's too perfect, but when they give him a moment of weakness people complain as well! It's a No win scenario. Oh well I love SR and that's what matters to me the most. haters gonna hate.

One of the aspect I really like about SR is that there is a clear distinction between Clark (his disguise to live), Superman (the image he uses to set an example) and Kal-El (the man we see with his mother, Lois and when he is alone). Would Superman do that stuff? No. Would the man born Kal-El? Hell yes. He is capable of nearly anything, but he still has the feelings of a human being. And that is what makes it something interesting to explore. He is arguably more human then humans but his alien powers allow him to cross that line at any moment he chooses.

 

[Wheels]

Superman Returns is not bad film but I just don't like it. I've moved beyond the "SR is teh suck" stage and accepted that it's a decent film that didn't give me what I wanted.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Superman Returns is not bad film but I just don't like it. I've moved beyond the "SR is teh suck" stage and accepted that it's a decent film that didn't give me what I wanted.

I am a big fan of it, but I completely understand this attitude. It is definitely a different type of film, that is somewhat trapped by its desire to be connected to the 1978 film. I do question some that claim it is downright horrible, as I wonder how many times they have seen it, if at all.

 

[Dr Lee]

the only problem i have with SR is when he screams 'I'm Superman!' as he's being beaten up..... both my brother and i feel it's not the sort of thing he'd do....

 

[Wheels]

I am a big fan of it, but I completely understand this attitude. It is definitely a different type of film, that is somewhat trapped by its need to be connected to the 1978 film. I do question some that claim it is downright horrible, as I wonder how many times they have seen it, if at all.

I just wanted the film to explore how Superman's 5 year absence affected Metropolis and the world instead of just Lois. I would have been more interested in a film where Superman returns finds he's been replaced, and the world is basically like "You"re old news and your way of doing thimgs is outdated". Then of course Superman proves that he and people like him still have a place.

 

[Reek]

It what way is the story "dum"?

I find it funny when people try to claim this, without actually understanding what Lex is trying to do. Lex's plot is to kill Superman, while taking control of the most advance tech known to man. He simply isn't building a new continent. You notice he has plenty of crystals left over?

Superman doesn't fight a rock, he fights Lex Luthor. I honestly don't understand why people think that every Superhero film needs the hero punching someone in the face, especially when that hero could practically blow up anyone that isn't from space with one punch.

Superman as a father worked just fine in the context of the story and he isn't a stalker. Unless of course you considering Superman a stalker in the comics because he has just as many moments spying on Lois without her knowledge.

Oh jeez, are we playing that whole 'spelling' game? Sorry, I was typing on my phone and didn't put a 'b' on accident. (I'll ignore your grammar in that sentence as well.)

I understand perfectly well what Lex was trying to do. And I clearly wasn't going into detail about it, I just didn't like the story. I forgot opinions are crimes here on the Hype.

Yes, I noticed the left over crystals. I also noticed they were dumped in the ocean, exempting any potential use of them in future installments. Clearly, Superman doesn't fight a rock. That was mostly a joke.

I'm sorry, SR was just a rehash of Superman: The Movie. Yes, some changes... but seriously, an airplane rescue... Lex scheming for property. 'Land, its one thing they aren't making anymore.'

And I'm sorry, I disagree... Superman having a kid was lame and unneeded... the kid had many medical problems, but can toss a piano? Sure, good mix between human and alien...but come the hell on. Also, Superman watching Lois and her family in the way it was shown... then, and I say this because Supes believe in truth, justice... all that stuff... he sneaks into their house.

And being in love with a woman who pretends her son is that other dudes (forgot his name) is a little strange for me to accept as the 'Superman' I grew up with.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Reek]

Superman Returns is not bad film but I just don't like it. I've moved beyond the "SR is teh suck" stage and accepted that it's a decent film that didn't give me what I wanted.

pretty much my feelings. I don't hate it by any means... Honestly, I think the anticipation and hope for SR ultimately ruined it for me because it was not near what I had hoped for. I blame the teaser

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Oh jeez, are we playing that whole 'spelling' game? Sorry, I was typing on my phone and didn't put a 'b' on accident. (I'll ignore your grammar in that sentence as well.)

I understand perfectly well what Lex was trying to do. And I clearly wasn't going into detail about it, I just didn't like the story. I forgot opinions are crimes here on the Hype.

Yes, I noticed the left over crystals. I also noticed they were dumped in the ocean, exempting any potential use of them in future installments. Clearly, Superman doesn't fight a rock. That was mostly a joke.

I'm sorry, SR was just a rehash of Superman: The Movie. Yes, some changes... but seriously, an airplane rescue... Lex scheming for property. 'Land, its one thing they aren't making anymore.'

And I'm sorry, I disagree... Superman having a kid was lame and unneeded... the kid had many medical problems, but can toss a piano? Sure, good mix between human and alien...but come the hell on. Also, Superman watching Lois and her family in the way it was shown... then, and I say this because Supes believe in truth, justice... all that stuff... he sneaks into their house.

And being in love with a woman who pretends her son is that other dudes (forgot his name) is a little strange for me to accept as the 'Superman' I grew up with.

Just my 2 cents.

Opinions are fine, as is disagreement, but you were clearly misrepresenting the film on a fundamental level. You call it jokes, but it is still misrepresentation, especially when you didn't actually mention the content in the film and the context in which it is found. You also called it dumb, without any reasoning whatsoever outside of the clear misrepresentations.

As to the crystals, of course they could of been brought back. Just like the brand new supply of Krypton that broke off the continent. It all fell in the ocean and in the very same film we watched Superman fly into the Earth itself.

I understand that it is very much in a way a retelling of STM. That is why I call it a remake, sequel, reboot.

As to the Superman scene when he watches Lois. If you have a problem with that, you clearly has a problem with pretty much every incarnation, because he does that kind of stuff all the time. In the new Superman book we watch as Superman uses his super hearing to listen to a conversation between Lois and the guy she is shagging. It is a common motif. Superman spies on people. That is how he is able to save most of them.

Finally, Jason. If you watch the film, you will notice that after he tosses the piano, he is no longer in need of his inhaler. They make a very obvious point of this. The mixing of his DNA has clearly had an effect, but the crisis with his mother triggered something bring forth his abilities. It is like how when Tenchi is in mortal danger, his access to the Lighthawk Wings kicks in, or Aang goes into the Avatar State in near death situations.

And I personally love his inclusion. The kid was great and adorable and the final scene where Kal-El repeats his father's words is incredibly touching. We always complain that these films don't do anything new and once they do, we complain about it doing something new.

I just wanted the film to explore how Superman's 5 year absence affected Metropolis and the world instead of just Lois. I would have been more interested in a film where Superman returns finds he's been replaced, and the world is basically like "You"re old news and your way of doing thimgs is outdated". Then of course Superman proves that he and people like him still have a place.

I like that appoarch, but I like what the film gave us. It made sense that the world outside of Lois embraced him. He can impress most of humanity and get in their good graces by doing these incredible feats and good deeds. Not so much with the woman he hurt.

 

[Reek]

Well, it's opinions vs. opinions. Which means no real resolution.

The problem I have with the kid, is if SR is in fact 7 years after S2... then basically, Lois got pregnant when they did the nasty then. So, unless I missed them saying it is not Richard Whites son, then she basically had to have sex with him around the time she did Superman in order for Richard to think it is his kid.

I've said it before, Singers biggest mistake was trying to make SR a 'continuation'.

As for spying, I just don't like the idea of Supes spying on a married woman and her family like that. Kind of weird to me. Maybe seeing it on screen makes it that much different for me.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well, it's opinions vs. opinions. Which means no real resolution.

The problem I have with the kid, is if SR is in fact 7 years after S2... then basically, Lois got pregnant when they did the nasty then. So, unless I missed them saying it is not Richard Whites son, then she basically had to have sex with him around the time she did Superman in order for Richard to think it is his kid.

I've said it before, Singers biggest mistake was trying to make SR a 'continuation'.

As for spying, I just don't like the idea of Supes spying on a married woman and her family like that. Kind of weird to me. Maybe seeing it on screen makes it that much different for me.

It is not simply opinion. You are misrepresenting the movie. It would be like me saying I don't like Pulp Fiction because it is directed by David Lean. Case in point, Lois isn't married in the film. They made a point of saying so. It is hard to take such complaints seriously when they come from a misrepresentation of the film.

And I don't know why you came to that conclusion. There are plenty of real life situations where a boy is raised by a man who isn't biologically his father, and he still calls him that. Richard clearly took on the role of father in Jason's life. That doesn't mean anyone, including Richard, thinks he is the biological father in the film. Was there something in the prequel comics that suggest otherwise?

Also if I remember correctly, STM is the only film that SR is connected to. Superman II doesn't exist in its continuity.

 

[Wheels]

I like that appoarch, but I like what the film gave us. It made sense that the world outside of Lois embraced him. He can impress most of humanity and get in their good graces by doing these incredible feats and good deeds. Not so much with the woman he hurt.

The woman he hurt is not likeable enough for me to care about how she feels. The only character I felt for in the situation was Richard White.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The women he hurt is not likeable enough for me to care about how she feels. The only character I felt for in the situation was Richard White.

Yeah, wasn't a big fan of Bosworth's Lois or how she was written. Her bitterness is fair, but it is not played in way that feels justified.

I didn't really feel to much for Richard in the situation. Mostly Clark and Jason. Richard seemingly knew the score before he ever even started dating Lois. And on the seemingly long engagement, and it is clear where Lois's heart lies.

 

[Rockstar]

Also if I remember correctly, STM is the only film that SR is connected to. Superman II doesn't exist in its continuity.

Yup.

I think what happened was Donner voiced his dissatisfaction with Superman II and Bryan decided to ignore it as best as he could, in order to respect Donner.

The only allusion to Superman II was Kitty's line asking Lex if he's been to the Fortress before.

 

[Reek]

ok so Lois isnt married, she is engaged... Whooptie doo, Supes is still spying on an engaged woman with a kid who he assumes is Richards.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yup.

I think what happened was Donner voiced his dissatisfaction with Superman II and Bryan decided to ignore it as best as he could, in order to respect Donner.

The only allusion to Superman II was Kitty's line asking Lex if he's been to the Fortress before.

That is how I remember it as well. If Donner had finished the second film, I doubt that would have happened.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

ok so Lois isnt married, she is engaged... Whooptie doo, Supes is still spying on an engaged woman with a kid who he assumes is Richards.

It matters because you clearly don't know the film you are arguing about at all.

And he is spying on everyone, everyday he uses his super senses. It is how he saves lives.

 

[Reek]

Here we go with the condescending remarks. Look, if you don't like my points of views and what I think of the film, that's fine. But don't tell me I don't know anything about the film.

Who's life is he trying to save by spying on her exactly? Was he afraid the Chinese food might be bad?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Here we go with the condescending remarks. Look, if you don't like my points of views and what I think of the film, that's fine. But don't tell me I don't know anything about the film.

Who's life is he trying to save by spying on her exactly? Was he afraid the Chinese food might be bad?

If isn't about your point of view. It is about your point of view not being based on the film we are talking about. Almost all of your complaints are based on things from the film you are either misrepresenting or simply wrong about. It would be like arguing that I had seen a red cat outside, and the picture I used as evidence was that of a black cat.

And he is clearly snooping because he is hurt. It was his equivalent of the hurting boyfriend to stares longingly at the woman he loves house from the street. It was his Say Anything moment. It was his Gatsby moment. Except of course, he has superpowers, which harkens back to the "Who watches the Watchmen" idea.

I am not the biggest fan of Smallville, but they had this stuff all the time. Remember Clark's telescope? Who was Clark saving when he listened in on Lois's conversation with her lover in the newest Superman run? It is what he does.

 

[Wheels]

Yeah, wasn't a big fan of Bosworth's Lois or how she was written. Her bitterness is fair, but it is not played in way that feels justified.

I didn't really feel to much for Richard in the situation. Mostly Clark and Jason. Richard seemingly knew the score before he ever even started dating Lois. And on the seemingly long engagement, and it is clear where Lois's heart lies.

Fair point.

Most of my dislike for Superman Returns cones from the fact that I didn't like the way Lois and Superman's relationship was handed. I had no interest in seeing them together, and that relationship is the focus of the film. The fact that I don't like the portrayal of Lex or that it has ties to the Donnerverse is icing on the cake. I could have overlooked those things if I had enjoyed the two leads.

 

[batman44]

Anyone here going to the Man of Steel presentation tomorrow?

 

[Kryptonian Warrior]

Anyone here going to the Man of Steel presentation tomorrow?

Zorex (that lucky bastard ) is.