All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

[Rockstar]

Which is what I'd like to see happen. The Nolan-verse is great, but it feels so real and grounded at times that the fun of the DC Universe just isn't there for me. And MoS isn't really gritty, there haven't been any signs of that from what I've seen and heard. Just a more grounded approach, however the concepts in the movie are still very comicbook-y.

We've had plenty of people associated with production called it gritty and edgy.

It's basically because MoS takes place in the real world. It's basically 'what if' Superman appeared today in the real world according to Goyer.

Goyer and Nolan didn't envision this film to be part of a bigger universe, unlike the Marvel films which were always planned to be commercials for Avengers. Hence why they were very comicbook-y in tone from the start.

Whether WB will force this into Justice League somehow is TBD, but I think the films should try their best to maintain the original 'self-contained' direction that was planned for them.

I'd rather we get a solid trilogy, than a Superman franchise that goes completely off course again, like the Reeve films did.

 

[souperman]

...here, here !...
where, where...

 

[X Knight]

We've had plenty of people associated with production called it gritty and edgy.

It's basically because MoS takes place in the real world. It's basically 'what if' Superman appeared today in the real world according to Goyer.

Goyer and Nolan didn't envision this film to be part of a bigger universe, unlike the Marvel films which were always planned to be commercials for Avengers. Hence why they were very comicbook-y in tone from the start.

Whether WB will force this into Justice League somehow is TBD, but I think the films should try their best to maintain the original 'self-contained' direction that was planned for them.

I'd rather we get a solid trilogy, than a Superman franchise that goes completely off course again, like the Reeve films did.

I agree.

 

[Rust]

Me too. Just like Nolan's Batman trilogy. It all goes back to the origin completing the circle, the story and the character.
That's how you spell EPIC!

 

[X Knight]

yeah....and if they want to bring in other super powered heroes, I'd rather they include members of Superman's own cast, like Supergirl or Steel, instead of trying to shoehorn in the Legion or JL.

 

[Alchemy Arcade]

I agree that other DC characters shouldn't be sprinkled into MoS to advertise any sort of future team up film.
I think the MoS film(s) will have a lot of great retrospective like the Dark Knight Trilogy has, where people are discussing so many aspects of the series rather than just the action sequences and one-liners like with the Marvel flicks.

And I also hope we get a definitive trilogy treatment too like the TDK Trilogy where its wrapped up with acknowledgments to his origin, (maybe call the 3rd film The Last Son of Krypton).

 

[Doc Ock]

Which is what I'd like to see happen. The Nolan-verse is great, but it feels so real and grounded at times that the fun of the DC Universe just isn't there for me. And MoS isn't really gritty, there haven't been any signs of that from what I've seen and heard. Just a more grounded approach, however the concepts in the movie are still very comicbook-y.

I completely agree, I'd kinda like to see it happen to. I am excited for TDKR however I will also be glad when its all over, I love Tim Burton's batman films because they do seem very comicbook-y and Nolan's films are well...not. Superman is the type of character that IMO could do well being very comicbook-y and possibly taking a page from Marvel's movies. Superman doesn't have to be connected to other DC characters just yet. I would like a Superman focused trilogy then spreading out into JL and such.

 

[The Guard]

I find Nolan's Batfilms to be very comic booky. There are some story elements in them that even the comic book writers would consider farfetched.

It's just that Burton's were more geared toward classic, 70's and 80's Batman comics and some nods to the 60's thrown in there, and Nolan's draw more from 90's and 2000's takes on the character, with a sprinkling of 70's and some nods to the 60's series thrown in there.

 

[Rockstar]

I find Nolan's Batfilms to be very comic booky. There are some story elements in them that even the comic book writers would consider farfetched..

That's not a very popular opinion. Tons of professional critics, gen audiences, and Nolan, Uslan and many others would argue that Nolan's take is as grounded and real as anyone can possibly make Batman.

It's a grounded, real-life film that just happens to feature a character based off something from the comic books.


Whereas, the Marvel Studio films are fantasty-driven live action comicbooks that embrace the campiness.

 

[batsfan81]

This maybe a nah duh statement but seems the theatretical poster for MOS is the same as the comic con one. They're are some ebay listings which state the only diffrence is Comic Con 2012 isn't on it.It just says Man of Steel 2013.

 

[G.Godfrey]

This maybe a nah duh statement but seems the theatretical poster for MOS is the same as the comic con one. They're are some ebay listings which state the only diffrence is Comic Con 2012 isn't on it.It just says Man of Steel 2013.

Awesome! I will buy it, frame it and put it on the wall in my living room above the fireplace, replacing TDK poster. Was never big on movie posters (I prefer oil paintings or artistic photography) but I love the MOS one so im happy they decided to have it as the first teaser poster and not just for CC.

 

[The Guard]

That's not a very popular opinion. Tons of professional critics, gen audiences, and Nolan, Uslan and many others would argue that Nolan's take is as grounded and real as anyone can possibly make Batman.

That's because they are either not looking at it closely enough, or because they lack imagination.

Various comics and novels have taken far more realistic and grounded approaches with the Batman mythology for years.

It's a grounded, real-life film that just happens to feature a character based off something from the comic books.

That's a ridiculous statement on so many levels, and an example of the worst kind of fanboy hypebrole. Thankfully the events of TDKR will apparently put that to rest.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That's because they are either not looking at it closely enough, or because they lack imagination.

Various comics and novels have taken far more realistic and grounded approaches with the Batman mythology for years.



That's a ridiculous statement on so many levels, and an example of the worst kind of fanboy hypebrole. Thankfully the events of TDKR will apparently put that to rest.

Yeah, I don't get it. Nolan's films are comic-booky. Just done so with a refined edge. Which is why they work so well.

The funny thing is, is that when they are at their most comic book like, many people complain. The boat/tower scene in TDK, when he catches Rachel, the 3rd act of Begins.

 

[The Guard]

That's because even the comic books tend to think things through better than the writers did when presenting those elements.

 

[Doc Ock]

Honestly I don't see much comic-booky elements in the Nolan films, maybe i'm blind. I'm not saying its a bad thing but I find it very realistic to the point where comic-booky things don't work. There is a few things that are comic-booky. I was surprised Nolan did Two-Face's origin so well(Two-Face being one of my favorite Batman villains).

 

[Rockstar]

That's because they are either not looking at it closely enough, or because they lack imagination.

Various comics and novels have taken far more realistic and grounded approaches with the Batman mythology for years..

Or that your perspective is biased.

When you have so many professional reviewers, and people associated with the production talking about how it isn't a CBM, and a gritty, realistic film... there is some strong merit to their statements.

You should check out the first part of this review.

It explains in better detail my point about what Nolan's films are:

http://blip.tv/confused-matthew/mathew-s-favorite-movies-the-dark-knight-review-pt-1-6089285

That's a ridiculous statement on so many levels, and an example of the worst kind of fanboy hypebrole. Thankfully the events of TDKR will apparently put that to rest ..

If anything TDKR will prove my point about the realistic and grounded approach.

Bruce is basically Jack Bauer in that film and it shows the real human toll that a concept like Batman would have on him, physically and psychologically.

Honestly I don't see much comic-booky elements in the Nolan films, maybe i'm blind. I'm not saying its a bad thing but I find it very realistic to the point where comic-booky things don't work. There is a few things that are comic-booky. I was surprised Nolan did Two-Face's origin so well(Two-Face being one of my favorite Batman villains).

Bane has been drastically reinterpreted in TDKR as well, and it's actually a vast improvement over the less realistic character in the comics.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Honestly I don't see much comic-booky elements in the Nolan films, maybe i'm blind. I'm not saying its a bad thing but I find it very realistic to the point where comic-booky things don't work. There is a few things that are comic-booky. I was surprised Nolan did Two-Face's origin so well(Two-Face being one of my favorite Batman villains).

Well there is Batman himself, the Joker, Ra's, Batman's origin, the suit, the grappling hook, a secret society of mercs, the tumbler, the batpod, Scarecrow's mask and "medicine", Batman's cape, the bat bunker, the batcave, the fact that a police officer and DA work with a vigilant, etc.

Taking something seriously and trying to make it make a little sense does not make it any less comic-booky.

If Man of Steel has Superman flying, a FoS, Zod, the suit, Kal-El=Alien, a distant planet being destroyed, etc. it too will be comic-booky. Even if it done in a more thoughtful manner.

That seems to be the disconnect. Thoughtful = not Comic-booky. I don't think that is true at all. Batman flattens cop cars and Superman is going to be punching a fellow alien in the face. That is pure comic-book.

 

[Doc Ock]

Bane has been drastically reinterpreted in TDKR as well, and it's actually a vast improvement over the less realistic character in the comics.

Intriguing, Bane has had a very mixed characterization throughout his time in comics.

Well there is Batman himself, the Joker, Ra's, Batman's origin, the suit, the grappling hook, a secret society of mercs, the tumbler, the batpod, Scarecrow's mask and "medicine", Batman's cape, the bat bunker, the batcave, the fact that a police officer and DA work with a vigilant, etc.

Taking something seriously and trying to make it make a little sense does not make it any less comic-booky.

If Man of Steel has Superman flying, a FoS, Zod, the suit, Kal-El=Alien, a distant planet being destroyed, etc. it too will be comic-booky. Even if it done in a more thoughtful manner.

That seems to be the disconnect. Thoughtful = not Comic-booky. I don't think that is true at all. Batman flattens cop cars and Superman is going to be punching a fellow alien in the face. That is pure comic-book.

Well I think in Batmans case it is thoughtful and realistic to the point were the comic-book qualities become forgotten or hidden by its viewers. Batman Begins is definitely the most comic-booky of the Nolan films (assuming TDKR follows TDK) and it could be why I prefer it over TDK. I don't doubt MOS will be comic-booky. One of my gripes with TDK is how Gotham looked like a ordinary New York type city. There is much comic book elements in the Nolan films, but I prefer the comic book stlye of say the Marvel Studio films or Burton's Batman.

You're right, now that you mention there is much of the comics in Nolans film but it still is a very different animal from the comics themselves and other comic book movies. But I love the fantasy and sci-fi aspects of comic books.

I have a lot of excitement and faith for MOS. I believe that it won't replicate the Nolan films style or the Reeve films. But create its own unique style that will be fantastic.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What do you think a guy running around in Bat-armor and driving a tank is other then fantasy? Do people only read one type of comic?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

If you thin there isn't anything "comic-book-y" about the Nolan films, you're wrong. Factually wrong.

Firstly, go bring that up in the TDKR general discussion thread (wait until after release so posters like Raganork and Travesty etc are back) and watch yourself and your ridiculous incorrect argument get torn apart by most of the SHH forums, both comic fans and Nolanites alike because of how wrong you are.

Secondly, pick up an actual comic.

Thirdly, you do realise there is a reason Nolan makes everyone read up on their respective characters for weeks?

 

[Doc Ock]

What do you think a guy running around in Bat-armor and driving a tank is other then fantasy? Do people only read one type of comic?

When I say fantasy I mean stuff like Wonder Woman and Ra's Al Ghul's Lazarus Pit.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That is picking and choosing. These are all fantasy aspects.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

When I say fantasy I mean stuff like Wonder Woman and Ra's Al Ghul's Lazarus Pit.

And R'as Al Ghul's immortality and the Lazarus Pits were reimagined for this adaptation.

R'as Al Ghul is a title to be inherited, and the leader of an almost religious sect.

The Lazarus Pit is a prison. That when you escape (not easily done) you emerge "reborn" spiritually.

 

[Doc Ock]

That is picking and choosing. These are all fantasy aspects.

They can be sure, but when I think fantasy in fiction I think sword and sorcery/supernatural.

I don't mean to sound like I'm belittling or being negative to Nolan's Batman. They are great films and I love to watch them all the time and I'm very excited for TDKR. I just feel the comic books show through better in a film like The Avengers or Amazing Spider-Man were they flat-out show the fantasy/magic and/or science fiction aspects of their universe.

The Lazarus Pit is a prison. That when you escape (not easily done) you emerge "reborn" spiritually.

Interesting! I did not know that. I've been avoiding the TDKR forum like its a plague to avoid spoilers.

 

[terry78]

Basically the consensus is, if it takes itself too seriously, it's not really a comic book film. But if it takes itself too tongue in cheek, then it's suddenly too much like a comic book.