All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - Part 13

[Super Kal]

all this "suit-in-a-can" disgusts me... i cant believe we're actually considering that idea... that was one of the reasons that the MCG script failed- not the only reason, but one of the reasons-, and after reviewing some of these things, i wonder how much of this entire movie is actually original...

McG is probably having a geekasm right now...

 

[DoomsdayApex]

that was one of the reasons that the MCG script failed

Prove it.

 

[Herolee10]

Im not sure how having non-kryptonian villains or Superman is stressul or the plot.Just say that Zod was thrown in a prison of intergalactic criminals who are nowunder his command.End o.The reason why I dont want kryptoniansonly is to see diverse abilities in battles not just the standard kryptonian shtick.

That was actually my point.lol

Yeah, having non kryptonians as side villains would make things more interesting since they could provide not only different visuals but different abilities as well so that we're not just treated to kryptonian powers only.

 

[Super Kal]

Prove it.

a while back ago, there was a book released, an unofficial look-back at the history of the past superman scripts... McG as director and Abrams as writer, the first script was leaked online. the script had Krypton not exploding, Superman being sent to earth to fulfill a "prophecy",Jor-El and Ty-Zor both fighting a civil war, Luthor not only being a secret CIA Agent but also a Kryptonian spy, the suit-in-a-can concept, and a gay jimmy Olsen... these highlights all were leaked to the public, and the public hated the script. Abrams did change some things around in the second and third script, but unfortunately the damage was done PR wise, plus MCG didnt want to fly... hence, they changed directors (Bryan Singer), and changed to different writers...

there were a lot of things that went into that failed movie attempt, and a lot of those ideas are being implemented into this movie... i for one whole-heartedly disagree with it. there were major problems with that script, and the reason that movie was never made, and the main reason all those other scripts NEVER made it into completion was because it alienated the audience, and only focused on the alien part of Superman, and ignored Superman's humanity. Jon Peters, in the LUITS documentary even admits to this, and admits that he did not succeed in making a movie in the 90's because it was becoming Star Wars, and not Superman. I'm really hoping they're not simply copying previous script ideas to opt out of doing something truly original, because I'm starting to see a lot of similarities in MOS and the past movie attempts

 

[protocida]

^ That doesn't really prove it, though. People were indifferent to the "suit-in-a-can". It was the other aspects that generated backlash.

 

[Zionite1]

On the topic of superman suits I see no reason why it cant fit under his earth clothes.I mean its made of alien material not earth materials-simply say that the alien nature of the suit makes it possible for superman to conceal it under his clothes.
That being said i wouldnt mind the suit-in-the can approach if we still got a good shirt rip.

That was actually my point.lol

Yeah, having non kryptonians as side villains would make things more interesting since they could provide not only different visuals but different abilities as well so that we're not just treated to kryptonian powers only.

Oh.okay.i feel awkward now...

 

[Super Kal]

^ That doesn't really prove it, though. People were indifferent to the "suit-in-a-can". It was the other aspects that generated backlash.

i specifically said it was not the defining part. i said it was one of the parts that hindered the script... the whole point of this was to show that these same attempts are being done in this movie, and nothing new is being generated...
i guess you wait long enough between scripts, people are going to forget how bad it was

 

[protocida]

Nothing that you mentioned is being done in the actual movie.

Don't mistake fan speculation for facts.

 

[Super Kal]

Nothing that you mentioned is being done in the actual movie.

you got the proof that the "suit in a can" idea isn't being used?

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I'm waiting for the part where the concept was a major proponent in the film being cancelled...

You [& a number of fans] may hate the idea but that typical isn't enough to halt anything in pre-production. Had that been the case, then Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy would have never materialized. In most cases, studio heads don't give a flying damn about what whiny fans want.

Well, elements from JJ Abrams script were used for the Goyer's and The Nolans' script. I don't see anything wrong it though. They still came up with the concept of a more modern and expansive Superman tale.

 

[Zionite1]

a while back ago, there was a book released, an unofficial look-back at the history of the past superman scripts... McG as director and Abrams as writer, the first script was leaked online. the script had Krypton not exploding, Superman being sent to earth to fulfill a "prophecy",Jor-El and Ty-Zor both fighting a civil war, Luthor not only being a secret CIA Agent but also a Kryptonian spy, the suit-in-a-can concept, and a gay jimmy Olsen... these highlights all were leaked to the public, and the public hated the script. Abrams did change some things around in the second and third script, but unfortunately the damage was done PR wise, plus MCG didnt want to fly... hence, they changed directors (Bryan Singer), and changed to different writers...

there were a lot of things that went into that failed movie attempt, and a lot of those ideas are being implemented into this movie... i for one whole-heartedly disagree with it. there were major problems with that script, and the reason that movie was never made, and the main reason all those other scripts NEVER made it into completion was because it alienated the audience, and only focused on the alien part of Superman, and ignored Superman's humanity. Jon Peters, in the LUITS documentary even admits to this, and admits that he did not succeed in making a movie in the 90's because it was becoming Star Wars, and not Superman. I'm really hoping they're not simply copying previous script ideas to opt out of doing something truly original, because I'm starting to see a lot of similarities in MOS and the past movie attempts

1.Krypton not exploding
2.Superman being a Kryptonian prince sent to earth to fulfill a "prophecy"
3.Jor-El and Ty-Zor both fighting a civil war
4.Luthor not only being a secret CIA Agent but also a Kryptonian spy,
5.the suit-in-a-can concept,
6.gay jimmy Olsen...
7.Focus on Alien superman

Pls piont which of this past movie ideas is definitely inding fits way to MOS script.becuse if you cant it merely shows you are worrying yourself over nothing.

 

[Super Kal]

They still came up with the concept of a more modern and expansive Superman tale.

maybe for you, but the last time i checked, you dont make the decisions for the general audience... the general public decides if this movie is going to succeed or not, and if it doesnt generate enough money, just like Superman Returns failed to do, it wont get another sequel, and will just be another disappointing superman film...

unlike you, I am a realist, and dont jump to conclusions before the movie is finished... i see similarities in this movie and other movies that were never made, and that is going to affect my conclusions of this movie.

we'll have to wait and see how the general public takes to this interpretation of Superman.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

The suit-in-a-can is simply a theory on various comic sites. Nothing more.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

maybe for you, but the last time i checked, you dont make the decisions for the general audience... the general public decides if this movie is going to succeed or not, and if it doesnt generate enough money, just like Superman Returns failed to do, it wont get another sequel, and will just be another disappointing superman film...

Obvious statement is obvious.

unlike you, I am a realist, and dont jump to conclusions before the movie is finished... i see similarities in this movie and other movies that were never made, and that is going to affect my conclusions of this movie.

Pure irony.

Oh, and I wouldn't use the term 'realist' to describe you.

 

[Super Kal]

1.Krypton not exploding
2.Superman being a Kryptonian prince sent to earth to fulfill a "prophecy"
3.Jor-El and Ty-Zor both fighting a civil war
4.Luthor not only being a secret CIA Agent but also a Kryptonian spy,
5.the suit-in-a-can concept,
6.gay jimmy Olsen...
7.Focus on Alien superman

Pls piont which of this past movie ideas is definitely inding fits way to MOS script.becuse if you cant it merely shows you are worrying yourself over nothing.

so far, the suit from ty-Zor is being used for Faora, and the MOS suit is almost 100% identical to the FlyBy suit. We also know that the overall feel to this movie is more alien because the writers and producers have said in interviews this movie has more of an alien feel to it...

now... the truth is, we DONT know the type of conflict Superman and Zod have (all that is pure speculation based on what we know from past movies and comic books), we also dont know if there is s "prophecy" type used in this film either (the Donner Cut of Superman even used the prophecy angle), and like has been discussed earlier, we still dont know if the suit is indeed a suit in a can.. we also dont know if Jimmy Olsen even exists in this movie

The suit-in-a-can is simply a theory on various comic sites. Nothing more.

i really, really, REALLY hope so... im not saying that it will make it or break it for me, but it will affect my viewing of the movie, just like the current CB suit does...

 

[Zionite1]

so far, the suit from ty-Zor is being used for Faora, and the MOS suit is almost 100% identical to the FlyBy suit. We also know that the overall feel to this movie is more alien because the writers and producers have said in interviews this movie has more of an alien feel to it...

There has not been one statement that says this movie has more of an alien feel to it not one.Yes we have kryptonian mythology featured in it but that doesnt make it alien.
Yes Tyzor and Faoras costumes look similar but they are 2 different characters.That Mos may have borrowed a visual design for another different chracter doesnt mean they have the same script with flyby
The Superman flyby cotume does not have gauntlets or the alien squigly lines that the Mos suit has.They are quite different.The only similarities between the two are the standard superman elements and absence of trunks.

now... the truth is, we DONT know the type of conflict Superman and Zod have (all that is pure speculation based on what we know from past movies and comic books), we also dont know if there is s "prophecy" type used in this film either (the Donner Cut of Superman even used the prophecy angle), and like has been discussed earlier, we still dont know if the suit is indeed a suit in a can.. we also dont know if Jimmy Olsen even exists in this movie

So we dont know anything....then why da fak do you ***** about what you dont know!Your exact words were that you were worried that Mos script was borrwowing a lot of elemnts frm Flyby when you dont know Jack! why putyourself through all that baseless torture-more importantly whyput us fans through all that baseless whinig when you have no solid grounds for it-heck you are even admitting theres no solid ground or it.

 

[Super Kal]

and guess what, bud, you dont know everything either, so where do you get off as if you know everything about this movie?

you dont know anymore than i do, so you just chill your jets and lets both see what happens in the future.

 

[Kryptonian Warrior]

There has not been one statement that says this movie has more of an alien feel to it not one.Yes we have kryptonian mythology featured in it but that doesnt make it alien.
Yes Tyzor and Faoras costumes look similar but they are 2 different characters.That Mos may have borrowed a visual design for another different chracter doesnt mean they have the same script with flyby
The Superman flyby cotume does not have gauntlets or the alien squigly lines that the Mos suit has.They are quite different.The only similarities between the two are the standard superman elements and absence of trunks.



So we dont know anything....then why da fak do you ***** about what you dont know!Your exact words were that you were worried that Mos script was borrwowing a lot of elemnts frm Flyby when you dont know Jack! why putyourself through all that baseless torture-more importantly whyput us fans through all that baseless whinig when you have no solid grounds for it-heck you are even admitting theres no solid ground or it.

Dude, just don't. It's not worth it. Just ignore and move on.

 

[Super Kal]

Dude, just don't. It's not worth it. Just ignore and move on.

oh yes, because people like you know absolutely EVERYTHING about the movie...

i've seen those just like you and him when Superman Returns came out, and even today are ignorant of how the movie did

 

[protocida]

I hope you're aware Superman Returns received generally positive reviews and had a strong return in the box office, but not sufficient to pay to the accumulated budget of the previous failed attempts to produce the movie.

That aside, Superman Returns earned as much as Batman Begins, that was considered a Box Office hit because it had a smaller overall budget.

 

[Super Kal]

and if it did do as well as you said it did, then why did it never make a sequel? why did Bryan Singer himself say that Superman Returns was not a good movie?

there's more to a movie than just a storyline...

 

[Zionite1]

and guess what, bud, you dont know everything either, so where do you get off as if you know everything about this movie?

you dont know anymore than i do, so you just chill your jets and lets both see what happens in the future.

You surely see the irony o this statement no?I mean i havent even predicted anything about the movie but you on the hand full out stated that they are implementin flyby ideas into MOS when you have no fakin idea about it and are even admitting it..
Dude.Take your own advice.you dont know anymore than i do, so you just chill your jets and lets both see what happens in the future.quit the Mos is flyby talk

 

[protocida]

and if it did do as well as you said it did, then why did it never make a sequel? why did Bryan Singer himself say that Superman Returns was not a good movie?

there's more to a movie than just a storyline...

Did you not read the post.

Based on the movie alone, the Box Office was positive.

With the accumulated budget of previous attempts to produce the movie, the Box Office was negative.

Simple enough now?

 

[Compi716]

Sigh...this happens in the forum EVERY comicbook movie. 95% of the posters are latching on to whatever info we're fed, thinking everything is the "best," most "modern interpretation" of an idea, all so new audiences don't find anything "cheesy." It's like clockwork at this point.

Change does not make things better. It never has. Look at this summer's comicbook movies. The biggest, most successful one was ALSO the most colorful and comic-accurate. That's not a coincidence, no matter how you try and spin it. Sticking to the source material when it comes to key plot elements is ALWAYS the right decision.

Now I don't know if there's a "suit in a can" or any other leftovers from J.J. Abrams' "Flyby" script. But if there are, let me assure you of one thing: they'll suck. A suit in a can will suck, a prophecy will suck, Krypton not exploding will be downright offensive...because it's not classic Superman which, despite what the buzzwords may tell us, is EXACTLY what audiences want.

I hate to say it, but damn do I miss Kurosawa sometimes.

 

[protocida]

^ That's a narrow-minded way to look at it, especially considering that The Avengers changed things as much as others.

And, well, how do YOU know it'll suck? Not trying to be a dick, but there's no indication it'll be bad because "OMG It's different from the comics! Xit Sux!".