All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - Part 13

[Alexei Belyakov]

Just because Nolan succeeded with Batman for the most part

That implies he somehow failed. Nolan didn't fail at all.

The guy pretty much redefined the CBM genre.

 

[charl_huntress]

The guy pretty much redefined the CBM genre.

That's what they said about Singer....lol

 

[DoomsdayApex]

That's what they said about Singer....lol

Except Nolan surpassed Singer's accomplishments as a director and writer in the genre.

 

[Herolee10]

That implies he somehow failed. Nolan didn't fail at all.

The guy pretty much redefined the CBM genre.

Perhaps a poor choice in wording; I mean it's not that he failed, but it can't be denied that not everyone was a big fan of all of his Batman films, in particular, his last one.

I know a lot of people that love his take on Batman, and in the same time, I know a lot of people who didn't. That's just the way it is; there'll never be a comic book film that I think will be universally received by everyone since these characters have had such a long history of mythology that there's bound to be fans who are diverse in their opinions of how the character should be.

I'm not trying to step on anything Nolan has done, and I'll admit that I do have a good amount of confidence that the film will be great given everyone that's involved with the film, but in the same time, we haven't seen enough or heard enough to know on what we'll eventually get.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

That's what they said about Singer....lol

Well, Singer did. The difference between the two is that Nolan evolved while Singer lost focus.

X-Men (2000) introduced the concept of grounded CBMs rewriting the rules of the game Donner & Burton had established.

Nolan took the grounded concept & pushed it further. With BB he pretty much wrote the book on how to make an origin film.

With TDK he simply took Batman & his mythos & put it in a crime film. The result = the greatest CBM to date.

Nolan had the talent to keep going places with the material and the genre. Singer just got lost.

 

[Herolee10]

I will also add that what's drawing me even closer to this film are the concepts that we've heard that the film is aiming to explore:

What would it be like in the real world if we had a guy like Superman suddenly show up? We'd naturally respond with some being fearful of the guy while others would be optimistic.

The idea that Superman would have to earn the love from the public that the character has been so well known to have within most of his comic book run is very interesting in my honest opinion.

Not to mention, we'll finally get to see a take of the character that isn't blinded by Donner's take and actually get into the mindset of the character as far as we've been told.

Superman may actually feel like the main character of his film for once.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

Perhaps a poor choice in wording; I mean it's not that he failed, but it can't be denied that not everyone was a big fan of all of his Batman films, in particular, his last one.

I know a lot of people that love his take on Batman, and in the same time, I know a lot of people who didn't. That's just the way it is; there'll never be a comic book film that I think will be universally received by everyone since these characters have had such a long history of mythology that there's bound to be fans who are diverse in their opinions of how the character should be.

I'm not trying to step on anything Nolan has done, and I'll admit that I do have a good amount of confidence that the film will be great given everyone that's involved with the film, but in the same time, we haven't seen enough or heard enough to know on what we'll eventually get.

The hate for TDKR is mostly invalid in the comic book community.

People wanted too much & despite receiving alot still didn't manage to quench unrealistic expectations.

The critics loved it, the GA set it at #7 in the all-time Domestic BO chart despite Avengers consuming $500 Million prior...

The only place that managed to "deem" the film anything but spectacular was the online fanboy community.

Real shame.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I wouldn't say Singer lost focus. He simply wanted to make a Superman film as a fan. He made a miscalculation in making Returns a 'sequel' to Donner's franchise.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

I wouldn't say Singer lost focus. He simply wanted to make a Superman film as a fan. He made a miscalculation in making Returns a 'sequel' to Donner's franchise.

I'd say making a "fan film" is losing focus.

The whole film felt uninspired to me & made for an elite consisting primarily of people who loved Donner's films.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

And I agree with that.

TDKR was mostly hated by fanboys and traditionalists/purists in the comic community. The GA pretty much adored Rises, and praised the hell out of it. Several associates of mine believed it was better than Knight.

 

[Herolee10]

The hate for TDKR is mostly invalid in the comic book community.

People wanted too much & despite receiving alot still didn't manage to quench unrealistic expectations.

The critics loved it, the GA set it at #7 in the all-time Domestic BO chart despite Avengers consuming $500 Million prior...

The only place that managed to "deem" the film anything but spectacular was the online fanboy community.

Real shame.

True, but in the same time, despite its box office performance, the film still has a lower rating in RT than its last film (TDK) and I wouldn't be so quick to say that the hate is mostly invalid in the comic book community.

Nevertheless, like I said, I'm not trying to downplay anything that Nolan's done.

Just saying that while I have great expectations for this film, in the same time, I along with a good amount of folks aren't necessarily ready to label this as a instant classic since Nolan is involved.

 

[charl_huntress]

Except Nolan surpassed Singer's accomplishments as a director and writer in the genre.

He has only done Batman....nothing else. It was the same with Singer.

I'm not trying to step on anything Nolan has done, and I'll admit that I do have a good amount of confidence that the film will be great given everyone that's involved with the film, but in the same time, we haven't seen enough or heard enough to know on what we'll eventually get.

Me neither, but people are taking Nolan's take on character as the be all for CBMs...but he's only also done one character or franchise.

Well, Singer did. The difference between the two is that Nolan evolved while Singer lost focus.
Nolan took the grounded concept & pushed it further. With BB he pretty much wrote the book on how to make an origin film.

Nolan followed the arc he set. He didn't really push anything, IMO.

Nolan had the talent to keep going places with the material and the genre. Singer just got lost.

Let's hope he still has the ability to do this in a way for Superman. I'm not on board with making a Superman film that could have Batman easily replace him as the star because the tone is so gritty and realistic....Superman is somehow lost in it.

 

[Herolee10]

And I agree with that.

TDKR was mostly hated by fanboys and traditionalists/purists in the comic community. The GA pretty much adored Rises, and praised the hell out of it. Several associates of mine believed it was better than Knight.

I am curious at times on what kind of changes people should expect to see to the Superman mythology that's presented on screen given Nolan's history for changing certain well known aspects of the comic book characters that he's used in his three Batman films, let alone on how they'll be received this time around.

I mean, Two Face not seeing himself as two different personas, Bane without the venom, Joker without the permanent white skin/let alone it not being a result out of a confrontation with Batman, or even on how the character of Robin is presented in his film universe.....I'm curious to see on how he'll apply this for Superman's well known mythology.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I'd say making a "fan film" is losing focus.

The whole film felt uninspired to me & made for an elite consisting primarily of people who loved Donner's films.

I'd argue it was purely Bryan's vision that hindered Returns, overall. After all, Nolan is a fan of Batman as well, and his trilogy didn't suffer any setbacks.

 

[charl_huntress]

I'd say making a "fan film" is losing focus.

The whole film felt uninspired to me & made for an elite consisting primarily of people who loved Donner's films.

Singer didn't really make a fan film. He took Donner's premise and style and made the same movies he always makes.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

And I agree with that.

TDKR was mostly hated by fanboys and traditionalists/purists in the comic community. The GA pretty much adored Rises, and praised the hell out of it. Several associates of mine believed it was better than Knight.

I'm glad to hear there's still life on earth.

Actually today at work, two of my colleagues approached me to discuss TDKR since they finally made a trip to see it at Navy Pier. Not only did they love it, but they told me it was the best film they'd seen all year & that it absolutely deserves a Best Picture Nod.

For me, TDKR, THE MASTER & BEASTS OF THE SOUTHERN WILD are all on the same level in different ways (and genres).

 

[DoomsdayApex]

He has only done Batman....nothing else. It was the same with Singer.

Nolan doesn't need to do anything else in genre. His Dark Knight Trilogy is held to the highest degree (critically and financially).

 

[charl_huntress]

Nolan doesn't need to do anything else in genre. His Dark Knight Trilogy is held to the highest degree (critically and financially).

lol...that's what they said about Singer. Everyone (including me at the time) thought he would be great because he had ONE franchise under his belt that was succesful.

I learned the hard way.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

Nolan doesn't need to do anything else in genre. His Dark Knight Trilogy is held to the highest degree (critically and financially).

Exactly.

Its not just another CBM franchise. Its THE CBM franchise.

People will strive to match what he did until the genre vanishes.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

lol...that's what they said about Singer. Everyone (including me at the time) thought he would be great because he had ONE franchise under his belt that was succesful.

I learned the hard way.

Something tells me the Dark Knight films didn't impress you. That's alright, different strokes for different folks.

I just hope you're not disappointed by what MOS will most likely be - Superman's answer to Nolan's Batman films.

 

[charl_huntress]

Its not just another CBM franchise. Its THE CBM franchise.

That is my problem with the Nolan-love....you can't make Superman Batman. You can't make a Batman movie that features Superman...

Sorry Nolanites...I am going to have to see to believe and I won't drink the Kool-Aid uhtil then.

 

[Roose Bolton]

There's Zack Snyder to consider, you know the man who's actually directing the film.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I am curious at times on what kind of changes people should expect to see to the Superman mythology that's presented on screen given Nolan's history for changing certain well known aspects of the comic book characters that he's used in his three Batman films, let alone on how they'll be received this time around.

I mean, Two Face not seeing himself as two different personas, Bane without the venom, Joker without the permanent white skin/let alone it not being a result out of a confrontation with Batman, or even on how the character of Robin is presented in his film universe.....I'm curious to see on how he'll apply this for Superman's well known mythology.

I'm curious as well. Nolan, himself, has commented on what doesn't make sense when arriving to Superman's mythos. Snyder, too, publicly agreed with Nolan about Superman's inconsistencies (ex. glasses as disguise). So I'm quite interested to see what The Nolans, Goyer and Snyder have in store for us with this modernized Superman.

 

[Herolee10]

There's Zack Snyder to consider, you know the man who's actually directing the film.

A few of my friends noted on how they feel like Snyder is at times in a no win situation. I mean on one hand, if the film does great, Nolan may great more credit...but if the film does bad, then Snyder may get all the blame.

 

[charl_huntress]

Something tells me the Dark Knight films didn't impress you. That's alright, different strokes for different folks.

I just hope you're not disappointed by what MOS will most likely be - Superman's answer to Nolan's Batman films.

No, I was very impressed with TDKR. Nolan completed a successful trilogy. I am just not convinced he is the be all for CBMs or that his vision will work on Superman. Yes, I know Synder is the director, but with Nolan being the driving force behind it. I am going to reserve judgement until I see the film in its entirety. All this hoopla over a director with one CBM franchise under is belt is too remiscient to Singer and I remember what I got with that...