All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

[Rowsdower!]

Really? What did you think was so bad about it? The only thing I thought was stupid was the slow motion punch at the beginning that makes it look like they're about to play Rock, Paper Scissors.

Then again, I haven't watched it since I saw it in the theater, so maybe it hasn't aged well. But I thought that fight was a million times better than Neo vs. 100 Agent Smiths in The Matrix Reloaded. That scene was so fake looking and boring it killed the movie for me. Well, actually, the rave scene and the pacing overall killed the movie for me, but that scene could have been awesome and it was just a boring mess.

But anyway, I thought the final Neo/Smith battle was fine. I just hated the ending (killing Trinity, Neo either dying or being put on Matrix life support, the Architect not getting chopped up into tiny pieces with a hacksaw for my own personal satisfaction).

 

[El Payaso]

This is one of those things that people say all the time that annoys the crap out of me.

The Neo/Smith fight from Revolutions absolutley sucks and is one of the most disapointing final battles in movie history. Neo/Smith from both of the first two movies is better.

If a Superman fight resembled that, I'd cry.

Okay, your opinion. I thought it was good.

But regardless of opinions, you have probably noticed how much of the Matrix style Snyder uses all the time. And I mean it's a lot.

 

[FilmNerdJamie]

The problem with the Neo/Smith fights in the Matrix sequels is it seriously looked like a video game. In fact seeing Reloaded at midnight was the first time I ever noticed that with a big effects film. Couldn't relate to highly rendered versions of Keanu Reeves and Hugo Weaving when you watch the first film and that's really two guys fighting.

Also you can't (ever) expect any type of dramatic meaning and/or effect by killing Neo at the end of Revolutions when you already killed him off at the end of the first film...and brought him back to life minutes later. And somehow still made that work. Followed by the half-assed "Oh yeah...Neo will totally come back again one day" remark in the last scene.

 

[El Payaso]

The problem with the Neo/Smith fights in the Matrix sequels is it seriously looked like a video game.

But that's not that far from "300" or Sucker Punch.

 

[DieSmiling]

Before I recite what I hate about it, I'm going to rewatch it, because it's been years seince I've seen in, and maybe it's better than I remember (I HATED Revolutions so maybe I'm just being biased).

I just remember it being silly and ridiculous looking, and not featuring anything legitimately awesome.

The Neo vs. a billion smiths scene definitley looked fake, but I still thought it was badass at the time.

Still, the best Neo/Smith fight by far was from the original.

 

[DieSmiling]

But that's not that far from "300" or Sucker Punch.

The special effects had come a long way before Snyder went at it hard, though.

The Matrix sequels were some of the first to use fully CGI humans and they look.... Kinda awful.

 

[DorkyFresh]

I like some of the stuff in this clip, but I hope they stay far away from anything remotely martial arts. Superman hasn't learned it, and this might sound silly, but I want the fight to be more 'manly' than a well choreographed, almost graceful fight scene.

while i agree to an extent, i also don't find it hard to believe that Clark knows martial arts. if he traveled the world as a freelance journalist what's to say he didn't stop in Asia and study some of their combat techniques? also, if we're to believe that he's an alien from a superior race what's to say he can't become extremely effective in a martial art after practicing for only an hour or so?

that being said, i certainly wouldn't want him doing too many kicks. he should only use his feet for drop kicks or stomps...but he should certainly use his elbows and knees when there is a chance.

i definitely don't want a graceful fight sequence, but at the same time there really wasn't anything graceful about the fight scene i posted. most of the attacks were power attacks.

I'd want it to be like this... but more use of superpowers and maybe some slow motion bits to show how fast and powerful their punches are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7yVDF2o83I

this would be awesome too. i would want Superman to show a little of everything. lots of boxing, a little muay thai, plenty of wrestling. even though Superman is the opposite of Batman, i'm tired of seeing a Superman that just brawls. for once, i'd like to see a Superman that has actually studied the art of combat.

 

[FilmNerdJamie]

But that's not that far from "300" or Sucker Punch.

But we weren't talking about 300 or Sucker Punch.

That said, the former looks fine. Still does in fact. That was 100% the angle they were going for and it worked (even though all they were doing was what Robert Rodriquez had already done two years prior with Sin City, but that's beside the point). Yeah, the latter looks like crap. No arguments from me there, bud.

 

[Superman2007]

The special effects had come a long way before Snyder went at it hard, though.

The Matrix sequels were some of the first to use fully CGI humans and they look.... Kinda awful.

Call me an apologist, but I justified the ropey CGI this way:

"Neo's fighting was so balls to the wall insane The Matrix had a hard time rendering it"....Believe it, or not that explanation makes those scenes slightly more watchable and a tad less laughable.

 

[DorkyFresh]

piggybacking off your justification, Superman2007, it would've been cool if they covered some of the flaws (back then) by rendering certain shots or frames in a stylized tone. maybe if they couldn't get a face to look quite right it would become pixelated or show the Matrix code or whatever.

anywho, that's all in the past now...to the future we go!

 

[Doc Ock]

As time passes I can see the CGI alot more in The Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions but yet I still enjoy those scenes alot. I think the CGI in that is alot better than some of the stuff out there today.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Before I recite what I hate about it, I'm going to rewatch it, because it's been years seince I've seen in, and maybe it's better than I remember (I HATED Revolutions so maybe I'm just being biased).

I just remember it being silly and ridiculous looking, and not featuring anything legitimately awesome.

The Neo vs. a billion smiths scene definitley looked fake, but I still thought it was badass at the time.

Still, the best Neo/Smith fight by far was from the original.

Yeah, I hated Revolutions too. I mean, I enjoyed it for the most part (except the amount of screentime they gave characters I didn't care about like Robo-suit Guy and Annoying Sidekick Kid, and even the brilliant Harry Lennix is completely wasted) while giving Neo and Trinity the shaft for a huge chunk of the film. But even that would have been okay if it wasn't for that stupid f***ing ending. That not only killed the movie for me, but it pretty much killed the entire series. I hated Reloaded, but at least at the end of that movie I had hoped that it was just intended as a build-up to part 3 and it would all even out when it was finished.

The end of Revolutions just proved that they never should have made sequels.

 

[El Payaso]

But we weren't talking about 300 or Sucker Punch.

We weren't talking about how Snyder should use the Matrix fight as a reference?

Hey guys, I just finished watching the Matrix Revolutions, and I think that a final battle between Zod and Superman would be great if it looked like the end Neo vs Smith battle. At least, the use of flying, not so much the martial arts. Also toss in some heat vision and the like. What you do think?

All I said is that he has already.

The special effects had come a long way before Snyder went at it hard, though.

You noticed I was talking about the Matrix style. Not just the special effects.

 

[Superman2007]

piggybacking off your justification, Superman2007, it would've been cool if they covered some of the flaws (back then) by rendering certain shots or frames in a stylized tone. maybe if they couldn't get a face to look quite right it would become pixelated or show the Matrix code or whatever.

anywho, that's all in the past now...to the future we go!

Yup it definitely would.

All I know is if the CGI in Snyder's reboot is anything like this
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/560/normalsr6310.jpg/

I'll be mad as hell.

Considering all this talk about realism and making Superman "real" the CGI will have to be very convincing.

 

[JonRed99]

We weren't talking about how Snyder should use the Matrix fight as a reference?



All I said is that he has already.




You noticed I was talking about the Matrix style. Not just the special effects.

Wait, why did you quote me?

 

[Sabaoth]

As time passes I can see the CGI alot more in The Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions but yet I still enjoy those scenes alot. I think the CGI in that is alot better than some of the stuff out there today.

I never noticed the CGI when I saw Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions in the theatre. Even years later on DVD, I never noticed the CGI and thought them to be flawless.
Last Friday, after having not seen Reloaded in about four or five years, my jaw dropped when I noticed how BAD the CGI in the Neo/Smith fight was.
What happened?
I guess the improvement of CGI in recent years and seeing so much of it (and no, it's not perfect. 2008's Hulk did not convince me at all) changed something in my perception, where the old CGI (like in Reloaded) now seems so fake to almost become a distraction.
Wow.
I know CGI has come a long way, but I want Cavill on a harness as much as possible!
When Marvel can generate a CGI Hulk that floors me (they have an opportunity next year) then I'll throw in the towel on old fashioned special effects.

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

Hmmm. "Man of Steel" may have to go head to head with JJ Abram's "Star Trek II" in Christmas 2012:

http://www.deadline.com/2011/05/can...age-outline-to-summer-tent-pole-in-13-months/

 

[El Payaso]

Wait, why did you quote me?

You said that you thought "a final battle between Zod and Superman would be great if it looked like the end Neo vs Smith battle. At least, the use of flying, not so much the martial arts. Also toss in some heat vision and the like."

And I said that with Snyder directing that's very possible since Snyder has used Matrix style fights in 300 and Watchmen. FNJamie said 300 and Watchmen weren't part of the discussion and I said they were because of the discussion you started. Nothing serious.

 

[Doc Ock]

Hmmm. "Man of Steel" may have to go head to head with JJ Abram's "Star Trek II" in Christmas 2012:

http://www.deadline.com/2011/05/can...age-outline-to-summer-tent-pole-in-13-months/

Oh no! This doesn't sounds good for MOS! Star Trek being more recent in people's memories.

 

[Dark Knight]

Hmmm. "Man of Steel" may have to go head to head with JJ Abram's "Star Trek II" in Christmas 2012:

http://www.deadline.com/2011/05/can...age-outline-to-summer-tent-pole-in-13-months/

Nah. Like I said on the Trek threads, these two films will be released a good two weekends apart at the very least. Trek might not even make the new release date anyhow. They need to get moving. Sounds like Orci and Kurtzman are struggling to get a good script going.

 

[Superman2007]

Hmmm. "Man of Steel" may have to go head to head with JJ Abram's "Star Trek II" in Christmas 2012:

http://www.deadline.com/2011/05/can...age-outline-to-summer-tent-pole-in-13-months/

I'd be a bit worried, but then I'd remember that this is a Nolan production, and that Snyder is probably hungry for a hit.

So then I'd say...."Bring it on!"

 

[Wheels]

Star Trek is hotter than Superman right now. Trek 2 will hurt MOS big time.

 

[KRIM]

Indeed. We all know what happened the last time Supes went up against a highly anticipated sequel to a very well received summer blockbuster.

With Hobbit already well into production, and now Star Trek, I hope WB finds a way to ensure MOS gets a very secure couple of weeks to himself. He can't survive another disappointing return.

 

[DorkyFresh]

i actually hope they shoot for a Thanksgiving Weekend release.

 

[Wheels]

i actually hope they shoot for a Thanksgiving Weekend release.

That would be great, just stay away from Trek 2, we don't need to failed big screen returns.