All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 38

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Not saying that is the case, just throwing it out there.

In regards to the Abrams script, Filmnerdjamie and myself have been saying that they are borrowing elements from that script for what seems like years. Doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

Returns took little bits and pieces of previous scripts as well. Including Flyby.

Right, it's not a bad thing. Personally I think the film looks great and I liked some of Abrams ideas.

 

[flickchick85]

I really liked the Flyby script, tbh, so I have no problems with that.

 

[SpideyFan866]

I kinda feel like Flyby, not returns, should've been made.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Yeah, it doesn't look like they're using the really bad stuff from Abrams script... as far as I can tell, there's no "Ty-Zor," Superman's suit isn't in a can, Krypton still blows up, and if Lex is in this at all, I'm almost 100% certain he won't turn out to be an alien.

 

[Octoberist]

And the model of Ty-Zor:

Compared to Jor-El:

Usually I'm a reasonable guy but wow this is incredible..you can clearly tell where MoS is getting its inspiration from..

 

[Kevin Smith]

Not a fan of the Jump to Conclusions Mat huh?

Hahaha I love this!

But it is an interesting bit of depth added onto Kryptonian culture. They're a civilization thousands of years more advanced than ours, with a heavily implied emphasis on scientific perfection. Test tube "designer babies" would be a natural eventuality after a few generations, and after a few more they might even consider natural birth unthinkable, and many (we might call them "conservatives" ) would seek to maintain this status quo. So Kal-El's conception would cause a major stir among them, especially among those who strive to maintain said status quo.

Excelsior., X Knight and I were talking earlier, and it also has heavy indications for Superman's characterization. Because he was born naturally (i.e., out of love) and raised with compassion by the Kents, his birth would also act as a "symbolic ultimate source for Superman's own compassion, and by extension his motivations.

It's an interesting bit (albeit maybe not my preferred bit, but hey - beats a religious allegory), but it's one that WE added, not one the movie has, lol, which is my whole point with this. I don't see how or why people are getting so carried away on it and practically betting on its likelihood here. It's not even something in the comics that I recall, closest thing to that I can think of is the (excellent) John Byrne Man of Steel mini.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

As many of you know, I dabble in screenwriting (among other things ) so here's a concept of a scene that includes a sampling of these ideas.

I used some names from the Cast of Characters List in The Last Days of Krypton by Kevin J. Anderson. Thoughts?

Spoiler

INT. KRYPTONIAN HIGH COUNCIL CHAMBER, KANDOR

Jor-El stands on a central platform, dressed in ancient, CEREMONIAL ARMOR emblazoned with the CREST of HOUSE EL.

He looks up and around him, and we take in the sight of the COUNCIL CHAMBER, a hundred times the size of the DOME of St. Peter's Basilica. The TWELVE ELDERS of the Kryptonian High Council sit high above Jor-El's head, and they look down on him in scorn.

COUNCIL HEAD, JUL-US
(stands)
Jor-El, son of Yar-El, you are here before this Council by public demand, to justify your recent actions.

JOR-EL
My actions are mine and mine alone. They are guided by fact, and thus require no justification.

Another Council Member stands in contempt of Jor-El.

KOR-TE
We know that you have built a craft, Jor-El, in your spite of the Ancient Ban. We know about your... excavations in the ruins of Orvai. And now your wife's swollen belly has the people in an uproar!

JOR-EL
(fuming)
My wife and I decided to have a child, a child that would be loved. Not engineered.

JUL-US
You are one of our most eminent scientists, Jor-El, and the part you played in the capture of Dru-Zod saved this city from total annihilation. For that you have this whole (looking at Kor-Te) Council's gratitude. And natural conception is not forbidden. But by its nature the child your wife now bears will be susceptible to the natural frailties and imperfections of our world. What if he is born with a disease, and that plague becomes the end of us all? What then, Jor-El?

Jor-El bows his head.

JOR-EL
(softly)
Our world is ending.

The audience behind him shudders and whispers, and rumors RUMBLE through the crowd.

Jor-El raises his head, and looks Jul-Us in the eye.

JOR-EL
But my son will not be the cause of it.

KOR-TE
(enraged)
HERETIC! BLASPHEMER!

JOR-EL
(overbearing Kor-Te)
My excavations in Orvai have revealed that our planet's core is dying. Thousands of years of war have literally rocked our home to the core. I have the data, you may see it yourselves if you like.

(Jor-El turns to face the attending audience)

Hear me now, Kandor! We have very little time!

KOR-TE
Sieze him! Guards!

JUL-US
The Council commands you be silent, Jor-El!

JOR-EL
Council Members, I have nothing but the greatest love for our home and our people. We should give the people an ideal they can strive toward, even when we stumble, and fall. My wife and I love each other, and in the dying years of our home we would rather see love reborn in it, than fade from our people entirely.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Personally, I'd prefer if the Codex was simply a back-up archive of all Kryptonian knowledge. Jor-El knows that the planet is doomed and, in order to save that knowledge for Kal-El, he breaks in and steals it so that he can send it along with baby Kal-El. It could reinforce his characterize as a scientist and man of knowledge. Not only does he rebel against the council to save his son, but he attempts to create a time capsule of his doomed civilization. It would also be neat if it has something to do with the rocket's destination as others have mentioned. Long banned records of Krypton's exploration of the galaxy before the planet's self-imposed isolation. I hate prophecies when it comes to Superman... makes the Christ/messiah allegory too blatant.

Agreed. And I think that would be wonderful.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

Hahaha I love this!




It's an interesting bit (albeit maybe not my preferred bit, but hey - beats a religious allegory), but it's one that WE added, not one the movie has, lol, which is my whole point with this. I don't see how or why people are getting so carried away on it and practically betting on its likelihood here. It's not even something in the comics that I recall, closest thing to that I can think of is the (excellent) John Byrne Man of Steel mini.

Well to be fair, as a writer it's fun to speculate t:

 

[Simo]

I always thought the Codex was the "key" or object Clark wears around his neck that bears the "S" insignia.

I take it tablet owners are no go for EW yet? I'd think it wouldn't go live until 3am EST because of those on the West coast.

 

[ConnorKon-El]

As many of you know, I dabble in screenwriting (among other things ) so here's a concept of a scene that includes a sampling of these ideas.

I used some names from the Cast of Characters List in The Last Days of Krypton by Kevin J. Anderson. Thoughts?

Spoiler

INT. KRYPTONIAN HIGH COUNCIL CHAMBER, KANDOR

Jor-El stands on a central platform, dressed in ancient, CEREMONIAL ARMOR emblazoned with the CREST of HOUSE EL.

He looks up and around him, and we take in the sight of the COUNCIL CHAMBER, a hundred times the size of the DOME of St. Peter's Basilica. The TWELVE ELDERS of the Kryptonian High Council sit high above Jor-El's head, and they look down on him in scorn.

COUNCIL HEAD, JUL-US
(stands)
Jor-El, son of Yar-El, you are here before this Council by public demand, to justify your recent actions.

JOR-EL
My actions are mine and mine alone. They are guided by fact, and thus require no justification.

Another Council Member stands in contempt of Jor-El.

KOR-TE
We know that you have built a craft, Jor-El, in your spite of the Ancient Ban. We know about your... excavations in the ruins of Orvai. And now your wife's swollen belly has the people in an uproar!

JOR-EL
(fuming)
My wife and I decided to have a child, a child that would be loved. Not engineered.

JUL-US
You are one of our most eminent scientists, Jor-El, and the part you played in the capture of Dru-Zod saved this city from total annihilation. For that you have this whole (looking at Kor-Te) Council's gratitude. And natural conception is not forbidden. But by its nature the child your wife now bears will be susceptible to the natural frailties and imperfections of our world. What if he is born with a disease, and that plague becomes the end of us all? What then, Jor-El?

Jor-El bows his head.

JOR-EL
(softly)
Our world is ending.

The audience behind him shudders and whispers, and rumors RUMBLE through the crowd.

Jor-El raises his head, and looks Jul-Us in the eye.

JOR-EL
But my son will not be the cause of it.

KOR-TE
(enraged)
HERETIC! BLASPHEMER!

JOR-EL
(overbearing Kor-Te)
My excavations in Orvai have revealed that our planet's core is dying. Thousands of years of war have literally rocked our home to the core. I have the data, you may see it yourselves if you like.

(Jor-El turns to face the attending audience)

Hear me now, Kandor! We have very little time!

KOR-TE
Sieze him! Guards!

JUL-US
The Council commands you be silent, Jor-El!

JOR-EL
Council Members, I have nothing but the greatest love for our home and our people. We should give the people an ideal they can strive toward, even when we stumble, and fall. My wife and I love each other, and in the dying years of our home we would rather see love reborn in it, than fade from our people entirely.

I enjoyed that very much Sir, especially as a amateur screenwriter. You captured the alien-royalistic language very well

 

[Dark Sentinel]

I always thought the Codex was the "key" or object Clark wears around his neck that bears the "S" insignia.

I take it tablet owners are no go for EW yet? I'd think it wouldn't go live until 3am EST because of those on the West coast.

Perhaps, I was really hoping for MY midnight

 

[Quasimod0]

"train throwing action" sounds awesome!!
i will die if superman really throws a train. that sounds amazing

 

[Dark Sentinel]

I enjoyed that very much Sir, especially as a amateur screenwriter. You captured the alien-royalistic language very well

Thanks man!

I basically bulls****ed a sort of "Tolkienian" cadence , since LOTR is my favorite novel, I think it applied.

 

[A.Stabelli]

Wasn't there rumors of a birth scene on Krypton?

 

[Kal-El.9859]

I'm sorry I thought it was always understood that the kryptonians were naturally conceived in most versions of the comics.....I have seen the article we're all speculating on and it doesn't say anything other than Kal El was special and his birth was cause for alarm.

I don't see how any have extrapolated that kryptonians give birth through test tubes only being the commonality on Krypton out of any that. It's not like even alluded to...

in one of the comics series he was born in a birthing matrix...so people are taking that into account

 

[Kevin Smith]

Okay, more speculation: Will the kryptonians speak in our language or will there be subtitles? I think they should do it ala some WWII movies where when they show things from the germans' point of view, we hear them speaking german at first and it's inaudible to english only speaking people and their dialogue has subtitles while outside of the circle of people conversating (pretend there's a circle of people, a council or something discussing stuff), but then when the camera slowly pulls into the circle, once it goes into the circle the subtitles disappear and the audio makes a transition "magically" from german into english. I think that would be great for the movie, and Jor El has a "universal translator" for when Clark comes to the Fortress of Solitude - that or Superman/the kryptonians can understand and speak in any tongue of their choosing upon their arrival on earth. What do ya'll think?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

in one of the comics series he was born in a birthing matrix...so people are taking that into account

Wasn't that Superman: Man of Steel.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

Okay, more speculation: Will the kryptonians speak in our language or will there be subtitles? I think they should do it ala some WWII movies where when they show things from the germans' point of view, we hear them speaking german at first and it's inaudible to english only speaking people and their dialogue has subtitles while outside of the circle of people conversating (pretend there's a circle of people, a council or something discussing stuff), but then when the camera slowly pulls into the circle, once it goes into the circle the subtitles disappear and the audio makes a transition "magically" from german into english. I think that would be great for the movie, and Jor El has a "universal translator" for when Clark comes to the Fortress of Solitude - that or Superman/the kryptonians can understand and speak in any tongue of their choosing upon their arrival on earth. What do ya'll think?

Actually, I think it might be that they "speak our language" during the major introductory scenes with Jor-El on Krypton, but (according to a rumored scene I heard about years ago ) when Zod and Superman first meet Zod says "Do you not even know the tongue of your father?" in Kryptonian, or something to that extent.

By the way, I tweeted my "scene" http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=25565503&postcount=932 to Russell Crowe. I doubt he'll see it, but whatever

 

[Kevin Smith]

in one of the comics series he was born in a birthing matrix...so people are taking that into account

The Man of Steel mini by Byrne back in the day, right.

 

[Kal-El.9859]

Okay, more speculation: Will the kryptonians speak in our language or will there be subtitles? I think they should do it ala some WWII movies where when they show things from the germans' point of view, we hear them speaking german at first and it's inaudible to english only speaking people and their dialogue has subtitles while outside of the circle of people conversating (pretend there's a circle of people, a council or something discussing stuff), but then when the camera slowly pulls into the circle, once it goes into the circle the subtitles disappear and the audio makes a transition "magically" from german into english. I think that would be great for the movie, and Jor El has a "universal translator" for when Clark comes to the Fortress of Solitude - that or Superman/the kryptonians can understand and speak in any tongue of their choosing upon their arrival on earth. What do ya'll think?

they will speak in Kryptonian....with I'm assuming subtitles and eventually they will speak English

Wasn't that Superman: Man of Steel.

I believe it was....John Byrne's run right?

Issue One:
In the issue, the planet Krypton is portrayed as a cold and emotionally sterile planet, an idea Byrne borrowed from the 1978 film Superman. Kal-El was not an infant sent from Krypton to Earth, rather, his fetus was placed in a "birthing matrix" equipped with a rocket engine and Jor-El's experimental warp drive, with Kal-El gestating during the trip to Earth. Once the rocket landed, Kal-El was fully "born" on Earth. This also made him "born" an American, a plot point that would be used in Armageddon 2001, a DC Comics storyline which explored possible futures, one of which featured Superman becoming President of the United States.[18]

 

[Kal-El.9859]

Actually, I think it might be that they "speak our language" during the major introductory scenes with Jor-El on Krypton, but (according to a rumored scene I heard about years ago ) when Zod and Superman first meet Zod says "Do you not even know the tongue of your father?" in Kryptonian, or something to that extent.

By the way, I tweeted my "scene" http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=25565503&postcount=932 to Russell Crowe. I doubt he'll see it, but whatever

I believe the rumored line was: "Do you even know your native tongue Kal-El?"

 

[Dark Sentinel]

I believe the rumored line was: "Do you even know your native tongue Kal-El?"

t: thanks! Yeah, that's the one I was thinking of.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Yeah, Byrnes's Superman had a lot of weird stuff. I always liked the way he wrote the character (though some people hate it) but I think he went overboard with some of the Kryptonian tech.

 

[Kal-El.9859]

well we may be seeing some weird Kryptonian stuff in Man of Steel