All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 39

[Sharkboy]

Hi, it really has been some time. Good to see you.

Well, what I took from TDKR was that people will always need a savior. The idea of the mask, instead of falling, goes on and on by way of Blake and whatever identity he'll choose from now on. Nolan blatantly advocates masks instead of have people take matters in their own hands. He has cops fight alongside him and he tries to create an exodus for citizens, instead of inspiring them to say "enough is enough with those freaks" and rise against Bane.

Eh, that's a good one as well, I just pretty much took my interpretation thanks to the line in Batman Begins, and because Batman doesn't save the day on his own, everyone else attempts to as well (lucius, gordon, Foley and the cops, selena, blake) so i took that to mean (as well as the statue) that Bruce suceeded in inspiring Gotham, and that Blake was a more literal example of this. Either way I don't want to digress too much by going on about batman, but your way is a pretty interesting take on it.

Snyderman, on the other hand, can help people achieve greatness. Probably not to rise up against Doomsday or Darkseid (a whole different league of rogues), but he can inspire them to change their everyday selves, habits, behaviour, morals, etc.

Yes, the way i took it, is that maybe Zod looks down on earth and humanity as parasitic, as self destructive and hateful (pretty much the basic cynicism that an outsider would see the everyday world as) and here comes Clark with his good old fashioned midwest american upbringing, without the paranoia or fear, where people have nothing but good intentions and good honest work brings simple pleasures. Clark has the optimism and belief that Earth is better than what Zod sees, and he could be that guy that brings it out of people. (without a doubt there will be some who see the religious context in this)

 

[BH/HHH]

Doomsday has come to fulfill General Zod's DESTINY!

Haha I totally read that in Bane's voice

 

[Luane]

I've always seen Zod as a bad person and nothing else. But I love when characters are not only bad or nice (is it possible for Zod ?). If Zod want Clark to join him, I would like to see what Clark would do. Considering Superman love humans, maybe Zod will use them to make pressure on him. It will be interesting but also déjà-vu.
However Superman could pretend to be on his side and imagine a plan to protect the humanity : to stop Zod definitely without killing him or leave the Earth with him ( a kind of sacrifice).

 

[Sharkboy]

Same here, but I don't have confidence in Marvel yet. When I see a Thor 2 trailer, maybe then I'll change my mind. They've certainly taken a step in the right direction with The Dark World stuff.

I just think a concept like Thor (which is similar to Superman in a way) needs as big a canvas as possible, and while i had no problem with the simple new mexico setting, i felt the Asgard scenes were very VERY lacking (it felt like a cheap syfy channel movie) that lack of ambition (and budget) took me out of it completely.

Which is why i really want to see some beautiful sprawling krypton sequences.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

This is true, i was very disappointed with Thor 1 (heck I pretty much hated all phase one films except Iron man 1) It really seems they are picking up the pace with Phase two which already sounds awesome.

But Marvel is rolling in the money with their properties, I feel that MoS is such an important film, if it fails...then I think we can say goodbye to superman and other non-Batman comic properties from DC for a good while, so my focus is primarily on that.

For me, the two best movies were the First Avenger and Thor. Iron Man and the Avengers were both a lot of fun, but they didn't register for me on the emotional level that Cap and Thor did. Thor's brother storyline really hit home for me.

Which is why I am even more excited about MoS. There seems to be a real effort to explore the character of Kal-El his relationship with others.

 

[J.Howlett]

Which is why I am even more excited about MoS. There seems to be a real effort to explore the character of Kal-El his relationship with others.

I've been screaming this for years about WB's approach in comparison to Marvel. Yeah, DC doesn't have the shared universe but with the Dark Knight Trilogy, Watchmen, V for Vendetta, and now it seems Man of Steel, they take great pains to really explore.

Marvel sometimes explore the characters but nothing truly deeper. Again, it has everything to do with what they want to accomplish, which is fine. They are fun movies to watch. But, they don't go as far as they should, especially with a character as complicated as Tony Stark.

 

[Luane]

For me, the two best movies were the First Avenger and Thor. Iron Man and the Avengers were both a lot of fun, but they didn't register for me on the emotional level that Cap and Thor did. Thor's brother storyline really hit home for me.

Which is why I am even more excited about MoS. There seems to be a real effort to explore the character of Kal-El his relationship with others.

Agreed for this. Thor and MoS both develop relationship with others (In Thor, it was between brothers). But in my mind, while comparing Thor and MoS, I doubt that Thor is equivalent to Superman film. Maybe I'm wrong and my opinion will change after watching the movie

 

[Gianakin_]

Eh, that's a good one as well, I just pretty much took my interpretation thanks to the line in Batman Begins, and because Batman doesn't save the day on his own, everyone else attempts to as well (lucius, gordon, Foley and the cops, selena, blake) so i took that to mean (as well as the statue) that Bruce suceeded in inspiring Gotham, and that Blake was a more literal example of this. Either way I don't want to digress too much by going on about batman, but your way is a pretty interesting take on it.

Selina is a better example to your case, as she is the one who actually switches sides. Blake was eager from the get go, he has no real arc, he only has one wish and by TDKR's end it's fulfilled (he gets the means he seeked to fight injustice). And I've thought about him being a representation of all the Gothamites, but the fact that Nolan went out of his way to use the cops the way he did really works as a counter-argument to the fact that people were inspired to act themselves.

Mind you, I thought BB and TDK were taking things there, with people having a civil war and in the end uniting against Bane under Batman (or not under Batman, even better). Heck, I wanted Bruce to unmask himself to inspire them. The funny thing is, even when I disagree ethically with the trilogy sociopolitical finale, the saga had 2 completely different paths to follow, and none of them would negate BB/TDK's setup(s). Me and you can both use scenes and themes from BB and TDK and they both could work for our respective cases. How he did that, I don't know. Amazing.

Yes, the way i took it, is that maybe Zod looks down on earth and humanity as parasitic, as self destructive and hateful (pretty much the basic cynicism that an outsider would see the everyday world as) and here comes Clark with his good old fashioned midwest american upbringing, without the paranoia or fear, where people have nothing but good intentions and good honest work brings simple pleasures. Clark has the optimism and belief that Earth is better than what Zod sees, and he could be that guy that brings it out of people. (without a doubt there will be some who see the religious context in this)

Now THAT sounds a bit more like BB, where Bruce asks Ra's to give him time, that "there are good people" there. I would also like to see Superman try to show Zod what he sees in humans before any brawling takes place.

 

[Gianakin_]

I just think a concept like Thor (which is similar to Superman in a way) needs as big a canvas as possible, and while i had no problem with the simple new mexico setting, i felt the Asgard scenes were very VERY lacking (it felt like a cheap syfy channel movie) that lack of ambition (and budget) took me out of it completely.

Which is why i really want to see some beautiful sprawling krypton sequences.

Agreed.

 

[elgaz]

It will be very interesting to see where they go with the storyline they've devised.

If Jor-El is a man of science, then why didn't he go down the accepted scientific route on Krypton (using genetics to pre-determine his child's characteristics)? I hope they make him a complex character; someone who is obviously highly intelligent and an expert in science, but also a bit of a rebel and wanting to do things his own way; someone with a bit of passion to him. This is why his son is eventually born out of love rather than a test tube.

I like the idea posted a few pages back about Superman appealing to Faora's emotions. This would be a great example of him inspiring others. If he ends up taking down Zod with her help, it would also be a workaround for the whole issue of whether or not he would kill Zod - remember kids, Superman doesn't kill! (but Faora does)

There's so much potential for the Doomsday angle down the line too. The original comic origin of the character was great, but you could bring it forward a few millenia and have Doomsday be a fairly recent creation on Krypton; a very, very very extreme example of an 'ultimate weapon' created by their military using genetics. But like all good movie monsters, they lost control of him. Hell, it would be interesting if Doomsday was somehow the cause of Krypton's destruction. In the comics, he laid waste to a few planets, almost destroying one entirely by triggering it's power grid to explode ..............so it isn't beyond his means.

A Doomsday storyline linked with Brainiac would be fantastic too, if you could somehow fit the two into one movie. For example - the reason the Kryptonian military loses control of Doomsday is because Brainiac takes over his limited and beast-like mind. Fast forward a few years to Earth and you then have Superman facing off against 2 enemies - one who primarily uses physical strength and muscle, and one who primarily uses his mind. Think Nolan's Batman having to deal with the Joker and Bane at the same time

 

[Gianakin_]

Some Doomsday version have him be of Kryptonian origin, so you wouldn't be far off.

 

[J.Howlett]

Giankin,

While Blake was eager from the get go, his figuring out who Bruce was in his youth inspires him (considering they have similar backgrounds) to get into law enforcement. Bruce's actions inspired Blake as a youth.

We don't see this but that's heavily inferred within the film, hence the reason it works with the theme Nolan's been pushing since Batman Begins to have this version of Batman to be finite...to inspire the people to take back their city.

Enough of that. Back to the awesomeness that is Man of Steel's new EW article.

 

[Gianakin_]

Giankin,

While Blake was eager from the get go, his figuring out who Bruce was in his youth inspires him (considering they have similar backgrounds) to get into law enforcement. Bruce's actions inspired Blake as a youth.

We don't see this but that's heavily inferred within the film, hence the reason it works with the theme Nolan's been pushing since Batman Begins to have this version of Batman to be finite...to inspire the people to take back their city.

Enough of that. Back to the awesomeness that is Man of Steel's new EW article.

Eager from the get go means since before TDKR starts and I was referring to his arc. Blake didn't change throughout TDKR. He wanted to do something for the city from beginning to end. He just found better means. And his being inspired by Batman goes without saying. But I saw no citizens trying to take back their city. They rely on cops and on Batman and live under whatever conditions Bane sets for them. They're nowhere to be seen during the final act and they're only briefly seen after Bruce gets owned by Bane.

And Batman is finite, but he did set a masked successor (at least he advised Blake to be masked, dunno if Blake will listen to him, but it's heavily implied he will). So yeah, no citizen was truly inspired in the end. They acknowledged Batman's importance and they went on relying on others.

 

[titansupes]

It will be very interesting to see where they go with the storyline they've devised.

If Jor-El is a man of science, then why didn't he go down the accepted scientific route on Krypton (using genetics to pre-determine his child's characteristics)? I hope they make him a complex character; someone who is obviously highly intelligent and an expert in science, but also a bit of a rebel and wanting to do things his own way; someone with a bit of passion to him. This is why his son is eventually born out of love rather than a test tube.

I like the idea posted a few pages back about Superman appealing to Faora's emotions. This would be a great example of him inspiring others. If he ends up taking down Zod with her help, it would also be a workaround for the whole issue of whether or not he would kill Zod - remember kids, Superman doesn't kill! (but Faora does)

There's so much potential for the Doomsday angle down the line too. The original comic origin of the character was great, but you could bring it forward a few millenia and have Doomsday be a fairly recent creation on Krypton; a very, very very extreme example of an 'ultimate weapon' created by their military using genetics. But like all good movie monsters, they lost control of him. Hell, it would be interesting if Doomsday was somehow the cause of Krypton's destruction. In the comics, he laid waste to a few planets, almost destroying one entirely by triggering it's power grid to explode ..............so it isn't beyond his means.

A Doomsday storyline linked with Brainiac would be fantastic too, if you could somehow fit the two into one movie. For example - the reason the Kryptonian military loses control of Doomsday is because Brainiac takes over his limited and beast-like mind. Fast forward a few years to Earth and you then have Superman facing off against 2 enemies - one who primarily uses physical strength and muscle, and one who primarily uses his mind. Think Nolan's Batman having to deal with the Joker and Bane at the same time

The only real problem with that (aside from not viewing Doomsday himself as too interesting a villain) is that it would be two alien invasion movies in a row.

I'd like the threat of the second movie to come from within. Whoever is still against Superman on Earth, be they government officials or a vocal segment of the general population (both, I suppose) so some try to take advantage... Namely a bald, billionaire genius inventor... Who is currently campaigning for the US Presidency. He uses his knowlegde and resources (and some left overs of Kryptonian tech from MoS, just maybe on that though) to build a few superHUMANS... Metallo, Parasite, what have you. To truly counter the alien presence.

I'd love to see where that would go. (And Lex would indeed get the presidency at the end, but by doing a lot of shady things).

 

[LordofhouseEl]

Doesn't look like we are getting the S curl, and the reason why is because they are trying to update Superman. It just sounds stupid to me Cavill looks better with his hair flowing and its better for the flight scenes and well its Superman.

 

[Gianakin_]

Or it's purely a stylistic choice.

 

[GreenKToo]

I'd ask for a PM but everyone is so ill just wait lol

Yeah me too. I just woke up and saw all the commotion.

 

[elgaz]

The only real problem with that (aside from not viewing Doomsday himself as too interesting a villain) is that it would be two alien invasion movies in a row.

I'd like the threat of the second movie to come from within. Whoever is still against Superman on Earth, be they government officials or a vocal segment of the general population (both, I suppose) so some try to take advantage... Namely a bald, billionaire genius inventor... Who is currently campaigning for the US Presidency. He uses his knowlegde and resources (and some left overs of Kryptonian tech from MoS, just maybe on that though) to build a few superHUMANS... Metallo, Parasite, what have you. To truly counter the alien presence.

I'd love to see where that would go. (And Lex would indeed get the presidency at the end, but by doing a lot of shady things).

Oh I agree, I didn't necessarily mean Doomsday for the sequel. It could be the 3rd film, or even JL - who knows.

 

[craigdbfan]

I think it has more to do with shooting honestly. Keeping track of a natural type of spit curl would be a logistic nightmare and I'm sure the perfectly gelled spit curl stylistically like Giankin mentioned was thrown out early on.

 

[dark_b]

OMG i only now noticed that Joer-el is wearing the battle suit from the toys.

 

[titansupes]

Oh I agree, I didn't necessarily mean Doomsday for the sequel. It could be the 3rd film, or even JL - who knows.

Sure thing, I'd like Brainiac/ maybe Doomsday too for the third movie.

Darkseid belongs to JL (though Marvel Studios will more or less beat us to the punch on that... Those well organised bastards).

I think it has more to do with shooting honestly. Keeping track of a natural type of spit curl would be a logistic nightmare and I'm sure the perfectly gelled spit curl stylistically like Giankin mentioned was thrown out early on.

I still remember all the hoopla they went through to give Routh his curl. There are photo's footage of him getting wads of hairgel AND hairspray between takes.

 

[LordofhouseEl]

Or it's purely a stylistic choice.

One that fails, not trying to be offensive as Cavill is a very handsome man but it just looks like a spam head.

 

[LordofhouseEl]

I think it has more to do with shooting honestly. Keeping track of a natural type of spit curl would be a logistic nightmare and I'm sure the perfectly gelled spit curl stylistically like Giankin mentioned was thrown out early on.

Cavill hair naturally flows anyway, all they had to do was give Clark the slick back hair and let Superman have the flowing locks. The women would have fawned over running their hands through Cavills locks.

 

[craigdbfan]

Cavill hair naturally flows anyway, all they had to do was give Clark the slick back hair and let Superman have the flowing locks. The women would have fawned over running their hands through Cavills locks.

That's exactly why it would be a problem. Keeping track of how his natural spit curl is looking and have it match with the previous takes positioning of said spit curl would be a logistic nightmare (something which you seem to have overlooked). Like I said it was probably more of a consistency issue more than anything.

 

[Gianakin_]

One that fails, not trying to be offensive as Cavill is a very handsome man but it just looks like a spam head.

I think he's fine.