All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 4

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Did you see the examples i've shown about how it is very similar to Rockwell's?? Every page is almost copied from his work, especially in the first issue.

Sooooo...you're argument is that Tim Sale is the best artist that has ever drawn Superman based on the fact that every page is almost copied from Rockwell's work? :huh:

Sounds like Tim Sale is the most unoriginal artist that ever has ever drawn Superman...:hehe:
 
I must say, this is shaping up to be the Superman movie I have always wanted. For the most part anyway.

I was actually iffy about Nolan being involved at first. And not because I doubt his ability in the slightest, he is the best director/visionary that has burst on the scene in the last ten decade. And he followed the pattern I would use as a director, he made two low-key films with quality in Memento and Insomnia. Those movies earned him respect and then BOOM, he takes over the franchise of an iconic character like Batman and shoots to the top. Nolan is great storyteller and has excellent casting ability. I know he gets **** for not being good at portraying females and casting Kate Holmes in Batman Begins. Casting Holmes was HIS idea, Nolan said early in the production of Batman Begins that he wrote Rachel Dawes with Katie Holmes in mind and picked her over Natalie Portman and Sarah Michelle Gellar. But hell, I don't think Holmes did that bad of a job. Holmes just got hate for being a former WB teeny bopper actress and the Tom Cruise fiasco. It was kinda unfair.

ANYWAY, back to being concerned with Nolan working on Superman. I was concerned because Nolan has stated his love for Superman: The Movie and having used that as a model for Batman Begins. That scared me because I had Bryan Singer flashbacks. But with the addition of Goyer, mentioning Byrne's Man Of Steel as the story template, and promising an original Superman movie washed away my worry quickly.

I feel like the WB is has finally listened to me telepathically, starting with the casting of Henry Cavill. Cavill is the closest thing to Superman's version of Bale and Batman in terms of fanboy's crying for him to be cast, myself being one of them since 2005. And then the casting has been awesome. Adams, Crowe, Costner, Diane Lane, up and coming Michael Shannon, and Fishbourne have been genius. Thats an all-star cast, just as big as Begins.

Yes, their have been alot of re-writes. Most of the time that is not good. But with this Superman script, I think they are having re-writes to try and make it as good as possible. Everyone knows this movie cannot be allowed to fail and the re-writes are being done to prevent that as much as it they can. Goyer is a wonderful overarching story writer and Jonah Nolan shares DNA with Chris Nolan. So thats good. And I don't think the script could be weak to begin with. Some of these actors wouldn't have joined the cast if the script was weak to begin with. I know Russell Crowe wouldn't, though he is a huge fan of Superman. Remember, back around Gladiator Crowe sought out to play Superman, only to think the script was horrible and walking. So the script has to be good for Crowe to join. Costner has been a great performer even though he has starred in dreck. But he has been in hiding lately only to come out of hibernation for this movie. Same with Diane Lane. Amy Adams appeared in crap once upon a time, but she has gained respect over time and won an oscar. You might think that would have ruled her out of acting in comic book films without a great script. And we have two up and and coming actors in Cavill and Shannon.

I love the suit. I have pushed for more of a uniform look with the suit, with no red undies. Listen, the red undies look so corny in live action and that is a stigma Superman needs to escape. To hell with looking exactly like the comic book design. I don't see Batman wearing a grey suit with black undies when in live action and the people who want Batman like that are completely ignorant fanboys of the 9th degree. This is a modernizing move with Superman.

Now, I do have worries about this movie. Real worries. One, is General Zod going to come across being played out as the villian, which means Shannon needs to nail the part. Two, despite the great writers and casting list I still have one issue, that being Zack Snyder's direction. I don't know if Snyder can portray the character stories while being all about the stylish CGI. Be more realistic, like Batman Begins. None of that bee bop bamboozled Marvel stuff. I still wish Jonathan Liebsmann or Matt Reeves were directing, though I am rooting for Snyder at this point. Superman cannot be allowed to fail with this last chance.
 
I've gott ask, is General Zod really played out in the eyes of the general public?

Maybe he is to comic book fans but the main audience really hasn't seen him since Superman II. You can count his time on Smallville I suppose but he wasn't on there long and I question how many people were watching the show when he made his appearances.
 
I've gott ask, is General Zod really played out in the eyes of the general public?

Maybe he is to comic book fans but the main audience really hasn't seen him since Superman II. You can count his time on Smallville I suppose but he wasn't on there long and I question how many people were watching the show when he made his appearances.

I welcome Gen. Zod...you will kneel before him also
 
Sooooo...you're argument is that Tim Sale is the best artist that has ever drawn Superman based on the fact that every page is almost copied from Rockwell's work? :huh:

Sounds like Tim Sale is the most unoriginal artist that ever has ever drawn Superman...:hehe:
My argument is that Tim Sale is:

1- A great artist! Better than average

2-Influenced by European comics

3-Underrated!!

Thats all folks! :D
 
Not so much the appeal of the trunks, it's just replacing them with a full body sock is lame, as he will look like a baby wearing pj's or a ballet dancer. Not too manly either way.

spider-man-5-movie.jpg


Look at that lame so called hero. He isn't wearing any man panties! He just has a one piece body sock. What a terrible design for a super hero. He's even posing like a ballet dancer, all moving gracefully. Go home Jammies-Man, nobody will ever like your non-man panties look and will laugh at your movies because of it. One piece body socks are totally lame.
 
Casting Holmes was HIS idea, Nolan said early in the production of Batman Begins that he wrote Rachel Dawes with Katie Holmes in mind and picked her over Natalie Portman and Sarah Michelle Gellar. But hell, I don't think Holmes did that bad of a job. Holmes just got hate for being a former WB teeny bopper actress and the Tom Cruise fiasco. It was kinda unfair.

Sorry man. She's a crappy actress and it showed.
 
The difference being that Spider-Man's isn't one solid color. That's what he's getting at.
 
The difference being that Spider-Man's isn't one solid color. That's what he's getting at.

captain_marvel1.jpg


This costume works fine with just a belt to break things up.

sentry.jpg


As does this one.

And might I also add that every single modern day hero has a costume that is sans-underwear on the outside. All new costumes seem to go out of their way to not look like Superman. Nobody does the underwear on the outside look anymore. So logically, why keep it for the movie other than, "Because it has always been that way?"
 
Captain Marvel's is good. But I never liked Sentry's costume, or Sentry. Anyhow, I don't have a side in this argument. So, whatever.
 
Captain Marvel isn't one colour either, he has a huge lightning bolt, armbands and his collar/ two colour cape to provide as colour breaks. Sentry has two huge areas of black, as well as armbands, making his torso look like a bumblebee's. Superman can work without the trunks, but you can't just take them away and not replace them.
 
spider-man-5-movie.jpg


Look at that lame so called hero. He isn't wearing any man panties! He just has a one piece body sock. What a terrible design for a super hero. He's even posing like a ballet dancer, all moving gracefully. Go home Jammies-Man, nobody will ever like your non-man panties look and will laugh at your movies because of it. One piece body socks are totally lame.

Bad example. there's enough detail in that body sock to make him visually appealing. Superman's detail is the trunks. Without it, the suit becomes bland and is in need of something there to break up the monotony. Plus, most ideas will just be derivative of other characters' costumes. Superman's look started a trend that in some cases lasts to this day.
 
It Doesn't matter to me either, but watching the debates is fun.
 
To briefly touch on Tim Sale, he's one of my favorite artists, but I do agree his work on Superman for All Seasons is a little off. He works fantastic for Batman because his art creates a surreal, dream-like atmosphere that really enhances the narrative, but it just doesn't translate for Superman.

Having said that though, his art for Darwyn Cooke in Superman Confidential is a little closer to a traditional Superman if any one wants to check it out.
 
At least we're not hearing any of the ''teh red is brown'' debates.
These hair and Are-the-trunks-there-or-arent-they debates are downright classic. I'm impressed at the lengths some have gone to, to prove their point about the trunks.
 
He is great but his Superman looks 50 to me and is balding. My favorite artists are Dan Jurgens and Tom Grummett.

Jurgens is my favorite Superman artist. People can say what they want about Superman's character and his storylines in the early 90s... but Jurgens' art was spot-on. He drew the perfect Superman, IMO.
 
captain_marvel1.jpg


This costume works fine with just a belt to break things up.

sentry.jpg


As does this one.

And might I also add that every single modern day hero has a costume that is sans-underwear on the outside. All new costumes seem to go out of their way to not look like Superman. Nobody does the underwear on the outside look anymore. So logically, why keep it for the movie other than, "Because it has always been that way?"

Both of those costumes have details that get around no trunks. And I personally don't think Superman should be changed to fit in with every other superhero. Superman should be unique, not just like everyone else. The fact that they have taken trunks off of every other superhero is even more reason for Superman to keep them.
 
There they go, claiming Zimmer is scoring... wuh oh...
 
Both of those costumes have details that get around no trunks. And I personally don't think Superman should be changed to fit in with every other superhero. Superman should be unique, not just like everyone else. The fact that they have taken trunks off of every other superhero is even more reason for Superman to keep them.

You know what would make Superman unique? A pink outfit. That would sure make him stand out from other superheroes.

Unique=/=good. If Superman does not keep up with the times, he becomes an anachronism. We can't treat today's audience as if they still had the tastes of 1938.
 
I tell you Henry Cavill has put Tom Welling in the rear view mirror when it comes to Superman!
 
You know what would make Superman unique? A pink outfit. That would sure make him stand out from other superheroes.

Unique=/=good. If Superman does not keep up with the times, he becomes an anachronism. We can't treat today's audience as if they still had the tastes of 1938.

Keeping up with the times doesn't mean briefs would have to get ditched.
 
You know what would make Superman unique? A pink outfit. That would sure make him stand out from other superheroes.

Unique=/=good. If Superman does not keep up with the times, he becomes an anachronism. We can't treat today's audience as if they still had the tastes of 1938.

Trunks still are a better fit and they still look better.
 
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