All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 5

[HighFivingMF]

Dropping this here because it made me happy.

[YT]pPwgG2wNn3Y[/YT]

 

[souperman]

made me smile!

 

[TheDragonator]

The word is derived from in the first place. While there were characters created beforehand that fit the description, defined the term and because of that, counts as the first.

That argument would make sense if it wasn't total ********.

It dates to 1917. Twenty years before Superman was created.

 

[TheDragonator]

But wasn't the first one. And I bet Siegel and Shuster Zorro's cape and double identity before shaping the definitive . Too close to be coincidence.

The fact the term '' wasn't widely used before doesn't deny that retrospectively we can see that previous characters with costumes, gadgets and/or superpowers that stood for justice/revenge weren't proper superheroes.

Despite fitting every criteria for a superhero?

Take, for example, the first sci-fi novels, which probably hadn't been identified as it's own genre yet. Just because they weren't referred to specifically as sci-fi, doesn't make them not sci-fi.

 

[El Payaso]

Despite fitting every criteria for a superhero?

Take, for example, the first sci-fi novels, which probably hadn't been identified as it's own genre yet. Just because they weren't referred to specifically as sci-fi, doesn't make them not sci-fi.

That's exactly what I said. Characters with superhero characteristic that existed previous to Superman are also superheroes.

 

[TheDragonator]

Ah, I see. I misread your statement before. My bad.

Thank God Kuro hasn't seen this debate yet. He'd go bat**** insane.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

Are you guys having fun trying to prove that Superman originated next to nothing? If he isn't the first at anything, what good is the character exactly? All it means is he's the one that happened to catch on or have staying power.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

Is there any truth to this? It says she's being played by Keke Palmer.

 

[Superman_200]

Somehow I doubt that. Unless she only appears as a human. I've never heard of the character but after searching her on Google, it seems that she is just a human who is related to the Steel character. I would think that she could be in the film but in a small part, just playing a regular person. Maybe someone affected by the fight between Superman, Non, Faora and Zod.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

What made you think she wasn't human? She's the niece of John Henry Irons, and once took on the mantle of Steel herself.

 

[Superman_200]

What made you think she wasn't human? She's the niece of John Henry Irons, and once took on the mantle of Steel herself.

Doesn't she acquire somehow superpowers, or is she supposed to be powered by some sort of Iron-Man like suit? Doesn't she teleport though?

 

[El Payaso]

Are you guys having fun trying to prove that Superman originated next to nothing? If he isn't the first at anything, what good is the character exactly? All it means is he's the one that happened to catch on or have staying power.

That is EXACTLY the kind of question I want moviemakers to ask themselves. Not the average fan's usual 'It's good because it's good because he's the first one' rationale. Go and look for what's really good in Superman beyond his status. Make him good for what he is as a character not an already stablished icon which status should be taken for granted. Explore him from the grounds, like if nobody had ever done it before.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

She wore powered armor like Steel does, though she was also gained superpowers of her own at one point. I just don't see why that would stop her from appearing in the movie. She could appear simply as JHI's niece and they could be setting up JHI as Steel in a sequel, sortof like War Machine in the Iron Man movies.

 

[Ita-KalEl]

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2011/9/prweb8814908.htm

Superman costumes remain a favored dress-up choice among customers who shop at TotallyCostumes.com. The favored superhero has something for everyone whether they are a comic book lover or a fan of the films. TotallyCostumes.com offers a large variety of Superman costumes for baby, infant, toddler, child, adult and plus sizes. Each style features a distinctive and iconic uniform that is recognizable by superhero fans everywhere.

The category will only grow in popularity with the upcoming release of Man of Steel, the new Superman film releasing in 2013. Man of Steel will star Henry Cavill as Clark Kent and tell the story of how he becomes the superhero known as Superman. Co-starring Russell Crowe and Kevin Costner, the new Superman movie is set in Chicago and will reboot the film series while introducing the next generation to the classic superhero. Nova of TotallyCostumes.com assured, "There is certain to be new Superman costumes to coincide with the updated uniform used in the movie as it gets closer to the release date."

 

[Superman_200]

That is EXACTLY the kind of question I want moviemakers to ask themselves. Not the average fan's usual 'It's good because it's good because he's the first one' rationale. Go and look for what's really good in Superman beyond his status. Make him good for what he is as a character not an already stablished icon which status should be taken for granted. Explore him from the grounds, like if nobody had ever done it before.

I don't think that what makes Superman (or any character popular) is being able to relate to them or that he is the first one, or that he is "the best", etc. It is all about the material that is given in the script/story. If the character is likeable, I at least personally, don't need to be able to relate to him/her to like him or her, or feel that he is the first one, or the best, original. He is supposed to be liked because he is charismatic and because he can do all of this amazing stuff.

What makes him human should just be his personality. Insecurities, or feeling inadequate, or lonely is not what is supposed to make him feel human for me. I don't think that is what being human is about. What makes Superman "the best" to me is that he has hope for humanity, that he is looking to do the best that he can for everyone around him. That he is idealistic, smart, knows his place in history, and has a different perspective on things.

For example, his perspective on crime, and domestic disputes and even his own isolation has to be different than that of a person who has lived in one culture and place their entire life.

I believe that someone who can travel out into space and look at the Earth and see all of its beauty from space and see everything else would think "What are we fighting about?". I cant imagine someone walking on the surface of the moon or hovering above the Earth, and not thinking that we are just a drop of water in the ocean. How can we fight over such petty things like that your steak was overcooked or that someone took your parking spot when there is so much out there?

We lose sight of that because we live in our own bubble, but Superman should not. I feel that what makes him likeable is that perspective and spirit. Not that he is just like us, but that in a lot of ways he is just the best of us. He is supposed to embody everything that is good in man. I think that is what makes the character likeable, not that he is the first or anything. His purity, his spirit, his idealism, his perspective on things is what makes the character the best and brightest. I would really hope that they would explore that in the film, and not just worry about "oh, he likes Lois but he can't tell her... blah blah blah".

 

[Lead Cenobite]

That is EXACTLY the kind of question I want moviemakers to ask themselves. Not the average fan's usual 'It's good because it's good because he's the first one' rationale. Go and look for what's really good in Superman beyond his status. Make him good for what he is as a character not an already stablished icon which status should be taken for granted. Explore him from the grounds, like if nobody had ever done it before.

It all still comes down to originality, and being the first superhero PERIOD was Superman's thing. Like Batman's thing is being a superhero without powers who uses training and theatrics to fight crime, and Spider-Man's thing is being an average Joe who's imperfect and has normal human problems. Being the first superhero without any added elements should be enough. Sure, to some, being supposedly generic like some people seem to think of Superman as is boring, but when you're the first, that's enough. Superman was fine being the pure, unadulterated superhero without any added gimmicks like having spider powers or magically creating objects with a ring or having claws coming out of his knuckles.

What good is a character that's a knockoff? How can anything be done with a knockoff that's relevant?

 

[Superman_200]

I really don't think that Superman being the first even if he was or was not is what makes him the best. That is definitely not what he is about. That is not the only thing that Superman has going for him. He is the best in my mind, but he is the best because of who he is in spirit. He is the most pure one. He doesn't "become" Superman, because he was born Superman. He does not need armor, he does not need serums, or bug bites or a suit of armor. He is just being who he is. That is what makes him unique, and his purity is what makes him the best.

He doesn't fight because of vengeance or because he is given a magical ring, he doesn't fight because he saw his parents die, patriotism. He is supposed to be the best because he represents all that is good in man. He is idealistic, he believes in man, and believes man is fundamentally good. Whether it makes him an idealist or just gullible, his moral standards and ethics, and spirit make him who he is. He doesn't need to be the first, he is the best because of who he is, not when he was created.

 

[sf2]

She wore powered armor like Steel does, though she was also gained superpowers of her own at one point. I just don't see why that would stop her from appearing in the movie. She could appear simply as JHI's niece and they could be setting up JHI as Steel in a sequel, sortof like War Machine in the Iron Man movies.

you think too far. superman can hardly stand on his own to get a sequel.

 

[sf2]

I don't think that what makes Superman (or any character popular) is being able to relate to them or that he is the first one, or that he is "the best", etc. It is all about the material that is given in the script/story. If the character is likeable, I at least personally, don't need to be able to relate to him/her to like him or her, or feel that he is the first one, or the best, original. He is supposed to be liked because he is charismatic and because he can do all of this amazing stuff.

What makes him human should just be his personality. Insecurities, or feeling inadequate, or lonely is not what is supposed to make him feel human for me. I don't think that is what being human is about. What makes Superman "the best" to me is that he has hope for humanity, that he is looking to do the best that he can for everyone around him. That he is idealistic, smart, knows his place in history, and has a different perspective on things.

For example, his perspective on crime, and domestic disputes and even his own isolation has to be different than that of a person who has lived in one culture and place their entire life.

I believe that someone who can travel out into space and look at the Earth and see all of its beauty from space and see everything else would think "What are we fighting about?". I cant imagine someone walking on the surface of the moon or hovering above the Earth, and not thinking that we are just a drop of water in the ocean. How can we fight over such petty things like that your steak was overcooked or that someone took your parking spot when there is so much out there?

We lose sight of that because we live in our own bubble, but Superman should not. I feel that what makes him likeable is that perspective and spirit. Not that he is just like us, but that in a lot of ways he is just the best of us. He is supposed to embody everything that is good in man. I think that is what makes the character likeable, not that he is the first or anything. His purity, his spirit, his idealism, his perspective on things is what makes the character the best and brightest. I would really hope that they would explore that in the film, and not just worry about "oh, he likes Lois but he can't tell her... blah blah blah".

beautiful said. ya, would like to see them explore on his perspective on things.

 

[DrCosmic]

Natasha Irons has never had powers in her first appearance in anything.

Also, imdb is famously unreliable. It is less policed than Wikipedia.

 

[Lily Adler]

I'm not believing this until I see Zack or Keke confirm it.

I'd take a gallon of salt when it comes to that particular page.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

you think too far. superman can hardly stand on his own to get a sequel.

There's nothing that says they can't plan for the future just in case.

 

[Lencho01]

Maybe someone can ask her.

 

[Lily Adler]

Does she have twitter? I know she has a YouTube account.

 

[TheDragonator]

It all still comes down to originality, and being the first superhero PERIOD was Superman's thing.

It never really was, technically since, you know, there were superheroes long before he existed.

He's the most iconic and most recognizable, but he was never the first.