All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - Part 71

[TheFlamingCoco]

Henry Cavill reveals that WB doesn't have a solid JLA plan:

"You know what, there's so much talk about it constantly," Cavill said. "Everyone's talking about if Justice League will happen. None of it has ever been official speak. It's always been what if, and if we were to do, how would we do it? It's always just been brainstorming and fun ideas as opposed to genuine thoughts. Certainly when it comes to me, because if there is genuine thought about it, it's probable behind very locked doors."

 

[InJustice]

Henry Cavill reveals that WB doesn't have a solid JLA plan:

"You know what, there's so much talk about it constantly," Cavill said. "Everyone's talking about if Justice League will happen. None of it has ever been official speak. It's always been what if, and if we were to do, how would we do it? It's always just been brainstorming and fun ideas as opposed to genuine thoughts. Certainly when it comes to me, because if there is genuine thought about it, it's probable behind very locked doors."

All WB should do is stay patient, build up your franchises first before you take on such a gargantuan project. Get MOS2 up, as well as a Flash, WW, and one of Hawkman (unless you want Hawkgirl...I'm basing the JL off the animated series)/GL reboot, and we'll be fine. Personally, Batman and Martian Manhunter (he can be connected to the Appellaxian invasion) can make do without an origin story.

 

[Smallville13]

Henry Cavill reveals that WB doesn't have a solid JLA plan:

"You know what, there's so much talk about it constantly," Cavill said. "Everyone's talking about if Justice League will happen. None of it has ever been official speak. It's always been what if, and if we were to do, how would we do it? It's always just been brainstorming and fun ideas as opposed to genuine thoughts. Certainly when it comes to me, because if there is genuine thought about it, it's probable behind very locked doors."

I could have told you this. Seriously through all the absolute wash of rumors surrounding JL the last year, it just became more and more apparent that WB has absolutely no clue or plan regarding it.

 

[steelfighter]

HERE'S THE FULL HD PIC, AND IT LOOKS GREAT... WHERE ARE THE BANNER ARTIST? TO MAKE ANOTHER MASTER PIECE WITH THIS ONE....

 

[Audrey]

This is why Wonder Woman is not for the faint of heart, the interpretation of it lends itself too easily for someone to take her and oversexualize her. But, "oversexbomb" her and you will 1) hear it from the fans and feminists alike, and 2) reduce her significance.

That being said, I would love to see someone with a great take on her and revolutionize the superhero genre with a female lead.

Eh....Wonder Woman is a whole other conversation that would take pages and pages that people probably don't want to waid through to be honest.

Part of the problem is that Diana truly was created for WOMEN but she often winds up (in the hands of DC Comics) as being turned into a fantasy for men. Which...was really not the point of the character at all.

That's why there are so many controversies about Wonder Woman and why so many of the choices made with her (including the "relationship" with Superman) are just really bad choices for the character. Diana was designed with her own special significance and it's very easy to just bash that significance into the ground if you get the character into the hands of those who just don't have a clue who she is.

Unfortunately, many people now think that Wonder Woman proves her feminism by just beating the crap out of people like she's some cold Amazon killer and the true idea behind the character and WHO she is supposed to be just gets entirely lost. People get so consumed with making her "badass" and then just lose her entirely.

But that's a rant for another day.

There is an amazing quote out there (and I feel terrible bc I can't remember where it's from to source it) that basically talks about how Lois Lane and Wonder Woman are two different sides of the same coin in terms of female power.

But, Lois Lane often represents our REALITY. Her appearance should reflect that. She's a really, really pretty woman but she's not some uber goddess supermodel. She's an attractive, human, working woman. She's the attractive woman that you might see at your office but she's so intelligent and feisty that she becomes a goddess to the man who loves her.

It sounds corny but EVERY woman is a goddess to the man (or woman) that loves her. Lois Lane doesn't have to look like a supermodel. We are supposed to see her through Clark's eyes which means we see why she is beautiful not just on the outside but on the inside. It's the ultimate expression of how Superman sees the world vs. how the average person might see the world. Seeing extraordinary in the ordinary. And again, not to be too corny but....isn't that the way most straight men feel about their wives? I hope it is.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I think they should approach Wonder Woman like the new Tomb Raider reboot. Gritty, less-sexy, and intense. Without the gore, of course.

But she's the ultimate MYTHIC hero, and I'd really like Whedon or Jackson to take a stab at it. Or Katheryn Bigalow, because she's a smart indie director who knows what it is to be a woman

 

[Smallville13]

Wonder Woman is definitely a toughie. I try and think about how I would approach it, and run into the same problems that it seems all her writers have had.

I don't actually think that the whole sword-swinging Greek myths approach is the right way to go with her.

I really can't wait for Grant Morrison's Wonder Woman Earth One, where he says he's bringing back her sexuality without making it exploitative.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Grant Morrison? Yikes!

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

HERE'S THE FULL HD PIC, AND IT LOOKS GREAT... WHERE ARE THE BANNER ARTIST? TO MAKE ANOTHER MASTER PIECE WITH THIS ONE....

Wow, maybe they polished it up. The compositing is great. The background isn't so blurry that Henry looks green-screened in, but also not too detailed that it looks like there is no-depth-of-field. I'll probably be blown away by the visuals.

 

[InJustice]

Eh....Wonder Woman is a whole other conversation that would take pages and pages that people probably don't want to waid through to be honest.

Part of the problem is that Diana truly was created for WOMEN but she often winds up (in the hands of DC Comics) as being turned into a fantasy for men. Which...was really not the point of the character at all.

That's why there are so many controversies about Wonder Woman and why so many of the choices made with her (including the "relationship" with Superman) are just really bad choices for the character. Diana was designed with her own special significance and it's very easy to just bash that significance into the ground if you get the character into the hands of those who just don't have a clue who she is.

Unfortunately, many people now think that Wonder Woman proves her feminism by just beating the crap out of people like she's some cold Amazon killer and the true idea behind the character and WHO she is supposed to be just gets entirely lost. People get so consumed with making her "badass" and then just lose her entirely.

But that's a rant for another day.

I entirely agree, I can't tell you how many male friends I know get caught up with the whole "female leads should be sexy" trope without looking beyond the physical, which is why I have high hopes that Lois Lane won't fall into that trap and will be quite the strong female despite having Superman save her life (which I see as her being brave enough to risk her life anyway).

As long as female leads are put in the right hands and by those who recognize and respect the history of the character, then we'll see something amazing.

There is an amazing quote out there (and I feel terrible bc I can't remember where it's from to source it) that basically talks about how Lois Lane and Wonder Woman are two different sides of the same coin in terms of female power.

But, Lois Lane often represents our REALITY. Her appearance should reflect that. She's a really, really pretty woman but she's not some uber goddess supermodel. She's an attractive, human, working woman. She's the attractive woman that you might see at your office but she's so intelligent and feisty that she becomes a goddess to the man who loves her.

It sounds corny but EVERY woman is a goddess to the man (or woman) that loves her. Lois Lane doesn't have to look like a supermodel. We are supposed to see her through Clark's eyes which means we see why she is beautiful not just on the outside but on the inside. It's the ultimate expression of how Superman sees the world vs. how the average person might see the world. Seeing extraordinary in the ordinary.

I agree, I think we'll be getting that similar look of Lois through the eyes of Clark/Kal-El in Man of Steel, insofar as that doesn't negate her other stellar attributes. It's not only her appearance the reflects reality, but also the choices that she makes in her work with the Daily Planet to either assist Superman or get the prize-winning story. The fact that she's brave enough to assist Superman in what appears to be tumultuous times in Metropolis (at least in Man of Steel) really hits home what Jor-El says about people will be willing enough to join him in the Sun, and that his existence will allow people to do wonders.

 

[Sharkboy]

Wonder Woman is definitely a toughie. I try and think about how I would approach it, and run into the same problems that it seems all her writers have had.

I don't actually think that the whole sword-swinging Greek myths approach is the right way to go with her.

I really can't wait for Grant Morrison's Wonder Woman Earth One, where he says he's bringing back her sexuality without making it exploitative.

As with all things Grant Morrison, it could either be something truly fantastic...or something best wiped your memory. There never seems to be a middle ground with that guy.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Now that we're off topic

This is the perfect movie outfit for WW, though I'd want her to have pants for the JLA movies

 

[Smallville13]

Now that we're off topic

Spoiler

This is the perfect movie outfit for WW, though I'd want her to have pants for the JLA movies

See that's the thing. I don't like sword, it feels antiquated, and the costume there doesn't feel timeless or modern enough.

There's a way in to her (not a euphemism) that we're not seeing that I hope someone eventually cracks.

Batman and Superman are very lucky that they've been modernized for the times. Thanks to Nolan and Snyder.

 

[Audrey]

I entirely agree, I can't tell you how many male friends I know get caught up with the whole "female leads should be sexy" trope without looking beyond the physical, which is why I have high hopes that Lois Lane won't fall into that trap and will be quite the strong female despite having Superman save her life (which I see as her being brave enough to risk her life anyway).

As long as female leads are put in the right hands and by those who recognize and respect the history of the character, then we'll see something amazing.

Well...and I think Lois is sexy. She's just often sexy on HER Terms and not on a guy's terms.

Sexy is not some objective thing. Lust and sexuality are subjective and personal.

The Interview scene in the original Superman movie is LOADED with sex. It goes right over your head as as kid but that scene is FILTHY. But it's not objectified in the least. It's not male gazey.

I think people often forget that Clark Kent/Superman might have a different view of what is "sexy" than maybe the typical person might.

And I have NEVER understood why Lois would be criticized for Superman saving her as he saves EVERYONE.

I don't think civilians who rely on firefighters or police officers or the military to save them in times of peril are "weak" so why would I hold Lois to a different standard?

If Superman appeared in my world...I would be like Lois. I would need him to help me sometimes. But Lois has other skills that are heroic and just as special in her own right. I think it's wrong to hold the fact that she's not literally a superpowered alien against her. We all rely on special people to save us sometimes. That's part of being a society.

I agree, I think we'll be getting that similar look of Lois through the eyes of Clark/Kal-El in Man of Steel, insofar as that doesn't negate her other stellar attributes. It's not only her appearance the reflects reality, but also the choices that she makes in her work with the Daily Planet to either assist Superman or get the prize-winning story. The fact that she's brave enough to assist Superman in what appears to be tumultuous times in Metropolis (at least in Man of Steel) really hits home what Jor-El says about people will be willing enough to join him in the Sun, and that his existence will allow people to do wonders.

Greg Rucka once said that the beauty of Lois is that through her, we see the wonder of Superman.

 

[InJustice]

See that's the thing. I don't like sword, it feels antiquated, and the costume there doesn't feel timeless or modern enough.

There's a way in to her (not a euphemism) that we're not seeing that I hope someone eventually cracks.

Batman and Superman are very lucky that they've been modernized for the times. Thanks to Nolan and Snyder.

Batman and Superman really are lucky that they're modernized franchises. I hope that if WB wants to create Justice League, that they utilize similar methods for their other franchises.

As for costuming, what about something like these images?

Spoiler

The skirt could use some longer lengths and her headband should be the traditional one when she's wearing casual clothes. But for the most part, I think it's a great effort towards modernizing the costume.

 

[craigdbfan]

1,000 times better than anything WB tv ever whipped up.

 

[Smallville13]

Batman and Superman really are lucky that they're modernized franchises. I hope that if WB wants to create Justice League, that they utilize similar methods for their other franchises.

As for costuming, what about something like these images?

Spoiler

The skirt could use some longer lengths and her headband should be the traditional one when she's wearing casual clothes. But for the most part, I think it's a great effort towards modernizing the costume.

Still no to those costumes. I just don't think it's a great fresh visual a girl walking around in Greek warrior garb in 2015 or whatever. And of course no to the jacket too. There's something fresh and modern. I'd love to see what someone like Jamie McKelvie could come up with. I think she definitely needs full leggings. The bikini suit doesn't feel right in these times either.

 

[Rust]

Yeah, no thanx to that. It's just too damn cheesy still. That head-piece...

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Still no to those costumes. I just don't think it's a great fresh visual a girl walking around in Greek warrior garb in 2015 or whatever. And of course no to the jacket too. There's something fresh and modern. I'd love to see what someone like Jamie McKelvie could come up with. I think she definitely needs full leggings. The bikini suit doesn't feel right in these times either.

I'd like to see her wear multiple costumes. On for Themyscira, and the other for "the real world."

 

[Caped Crusader]

I said it before.. & I'll say it again. Wonder Woman needs to be on the big screen, not tv.

 

[ThreadPool]

Let's remember that WB thought it would be a good idea to spend 200 million on GL and release it half cocked. Not that the director's intended product would've been much better.
But they continue to reaffirm the fact they can only do Batman and Superman right... Some of the time.
They need a real plan. They need a plan like Marvel, but not identical to Marvel's.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Whedon has a finished script, I heard. If it's not good enough, let the animation writers polish it up. Then get a STRONG unknown as the lead, but fill the supporting cast with A or B list actors and actresses. And find a decent villain, it doesn't have to be a great one, just someone thematically relevant for WW to fight.

Really, WB makes their live action superhero movies into a grand experiment, when all they have to do is hire smart people and step back.

 

[Mysteryman]

I have always been curious about Whedons WW script .
I would Love to read it one day .

 

[Kevin Smith]

They need to get off Cavill's ass about JLA. HE DOESN'T KNOW. Only the big shots at WB do.

 

[ThreadPool]

And even they don't know.