All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 8

[Micromind]

Even if we accept that all the X-men movies so far are in the same continuity, they are prequels and sequels to loose prequels but the point is is that all confusing the general audience ?

Not really, so having a separate Justice League franchise along with a separate Superman franchise will not be that difficult to accept, even if Cavill plays Supes in both of them. (IMO.)

 

[Rockstar]

Nolan had a problem with them connecting their Batman to his and mde them change it. If Nolan hadn't had a problem with it, they wouldn't have changed it. ..

Nolan had a problem with there being two Batmans onscreen. Having the Armie Hammer Batman would have been counterproductive to what he was doing with Bale and TDK.

But that's neither here nor there. I specifically said not to have the franchies acknowledge each other in any way. The connection would be assumed by the audience and neither confirmed nor denied by the films..

Then that would mean Cavill would be playing a completely different version of Superman than the Synder/Nolan version; different suit, different characterization, different everything.

It would be very convoluted for the general audience.

Case in point: Imagine them doing something similar with Bale and his Batman; suddenly having Bale play a TAS-inspired version in JLA. Imagine if that happened while the BB/TDK/TDKR franchise was still going.

It would be a mess for audiences.

If WB asks Cavill and he agrees, there's nothing either of them can do about it. They can insist that there aren't any specific ties to Superman's solo franchise, but they can't block them from recruiting Cavill...

Cavill wouldn't realistically go against Nolan and Snyder to do JLA, just as Bale didn't go against Nolan to do JL:M.

Why would he go against Snyder/Nolan if MoS proves to be a success, and switch teams to an untested JLA project?

I think we should stop trying to explain the Justice League: Mortal and Christopher Nolan incident to Rockstar. At this point, I believe his motives are to stir up the boards, or he has trouble reading. After two months (as far as I remember), it's starting to get irritating. Rockstar b***hes and whines about the same topic over and over again, and blames King Nolan for WB's failures to launch a Justice League adaptation.

I'm actually enjoying watching DC fanboys like yourself have unrealistic pipedreams about JLA and then getting screwed over by the reality of the situation.

 

[Rockstar]

Even if we accept that all the X-men movies so far are in the same continuity, they are prequels and sequels to loose prequels but the point is is that all confusing the general audience ?

The X-men prequels never aired alongside the sequels in the same time span.

That's why it worked. There was an original X-Men trilogy. It ended.

Now there's X-Men First Class.

 

[BH/HHH]

I still don't think WB's need to do lead up films to Justice League, I really think it could work without it like they did in the new 52 Justice League origoin. Create something based on that, expand on it and make it filmable.

Even if we accept that all the X-men movies so far are in the same continuity, they are prequels and sequels to loose prequels but the point is is that all confusing the general audience ?

Not really, so having a separate Justice League franchise along with a separate Superman franchise will not be that difficult to accept, even if Cavill plays Supes in both of them. (IMO.)

I agree although I think they'd have to use a different actor in JL.

On X-Men First Class I kind of hope something happens to mess up the time line (like Star Trek) as I think the X-Men trilogy messed up alot of things.

 

[Rockstar]

I think Bryan Singer mentioned something along those lines in interviews. That X-Men First Class would follow the "Star Trek" approach.

 

[Micromind]

I agree although I think they'd have to use a different actor in JL.

I would prefer a different actor in the JL movie and keeping a JL as a separate movie franchise. But, that will surely divide the fanbase, imagine something similar to old - Routh Vs welling wars.

This time Cavill supporters Vs Whoever becomes JL Superman, and that does harm both the franchises. Fans are just not mature enough.

 

[Rockstar]

It wouldn't just be two Supermans though in that scenario.

There would be the reboot Batman and the JL Batman.

And if Justice League achieves it's goal and builds interest for solo franchises, they'd have to create second versions of WW, Flash, Aquaman etc for the solo films.


Such a situation would probably show how much better and more effecient Marvel Studio's Avengers approach works in comparison.

 

[BH/HHH]

I would prefer a different actor in the JL movie and keeping a JL as a separate movie franchise. But, that will surely divide the fanbase, imagine something similar to old - Routh Vs welling wars.

This time Cavill supporters Vs Whoever becomes JL Superman, and that does harm both the franchises. Fans are just not mature enough.

God yeah I hated the Routh vs Caill wars, I'm a fan whose happy with what we get. I'd love a JL series alongside a seperate universe Superman series. Infact I'd feel very very lucky.

 

[BH/HHH]

It wouldn't just be two Supermans though in that scenario.

There would be the reboot Batman and the JL Batman.

And if Justice League achieves it's goal and builds interest for solo franchises, they'd have to create second versions of WW, Flash, Aquaman etc for the solo films.


Such a situation would probably show how much better and more effecient Marvel Studio's Avengers approach works in comparison.

Yeah but surely Batman would take a break anyways so maybe it wouldn't matter in the long run.

 

[Micromind]

Yeah but surely Batman would take a break anyways so maybe it wouldn't matter in the long run.

WB is not going to wait for a period of (say, six years - time between SR and MOS.) to relaunch Batman franchise because Batman movies are the money earners for DC and WB right now, plus since Nolan is acting as a producer on the relaunched Batman, they would like to start as soon as Nolan is willing to start, maybe three years.

If JL is made as a separate franchise, expect a different Batman and Superman (similar to what they were planning to do for George Miller's JL: Mortal with Armie hammer as Batman and DJ Cortrona as Superman.)

So, there will be two Batmen and Two Supemen.

 

[Willi Berg]

It wouldn't just be two Supermans though in that scenario.

There would be the reboot Batman and the JL Batman.

And if Justice League achieves it's goal and builds interest for solo franchises, they'd have to create second versions of WW, Flash, Aquaman etc for the solo films.


Such a situation would probably show how much better and more effecient Marvel Studio's Avengers approach works in comparison.

I think if a JL movie creates interest for solo movies for Wonder Woman or Flash or Aquaman, they could use the same actors. There's nothing to impede them.

Anyway, by the time they make a JLA movie, Cavill will probably have moved on already and who knows what state Batman will be by then. I think at this point WB are seeing how much they can milk the Superman and Batman solo franchises and that's the priority.

 

[Micromind]

I think if a JL movie creates interest for solo movies for Wonder Woman or Flash or Aquaman, they could use the same actors. There's nothing to impede them.

Anyway, by the time they make a JLA movie, Cavill will probably have moved on already and who knows what state Batman will be by then. I think at this point WB are seeing how much they can milk the Superman and Batman solo franchises and that's the priority.

Agreed. WB own complete and full rights for WW, GL, Martian Manhunter and Flash (Silver Picturs and Berlanti productions no longer have them.)

Cavill most likely will be Superman for three movies only.

 

[Rockstar]

Yeah but surely Batman would take a break anyways so maybe it wouldn't matter in the long run.

There's no break planned for Batman.

It's their only profitable DC Comics franchise.

 

[Rockstar]

I think if a JL movie creates interest for solo movies for Wonder Woman or Flash or Aquaman, they could use the same actors. There's nothing to impede them.

That would create two schools of solo film franchises.

Ones in their own universes (Batman reboot, Man of Steel) and others in a shared universe connected to JLA and the 2nd Batman and Superman.. (WW, Flash, Aquaman)..


That makes things really convoluted, especially if theyre all out concurrently.

 

[Micromind]

Consider this: Even though Avengers and its associated franchises (Hulk, Iron Man, cap. America, Thor) are getting movies from Marvel Studios, there are other Marvel properties that exist concurrently like Spider-man, X-Men, Ghost Rider, no one is wondering - where is Spider man in new York at the time Loki is attacking ?

Similarly, no one will miss Superman (or Batman) in a Flash movie or WW movie. As far as JL movie is concerned, WB will have to make it clear in the build up marketing leading to the JL movie - that it is a separate continuity.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Sorry to keep coming at you but in your example they are from different studios. Marvel studios has done a very good job at branding its roster. Thor, iron man, cap etc. are all very associated with the marvel studios brand.

Spider-man, x-men etc. to the average movie goes has no connection to the new marvel movie universe being built up the past 5 years.

 

[McLarenMP4]

Why not just copy what they did with The Avengers?

Make MOS the 1st Iron Man movie, reboot Batman so the 1st of that series is in between MOS & MOS2. Have MOS2 or the Batman movie introduce the other JL characters and possibly having a Flash movie after that. Then make the JL movie. Simple.

Keeps the continuity and keeps fans happy at the same time, also no confusion for the audience.

 

[Micromind]

Still the Marvel logo appears before Spider-man, X-men movie, so some general audience may speculate why Spider-Man is missing the action taking place in NY, in Avengers.

 

[Willi Berg]

That would create two schools of solo film franchises.

Ones in their own universes (Batman reboot, Man of Steel) and others in a shared universe connected to JLA and the 2nd Batman and Superman.. (WW, Flash, Aquaman)..


That makes things really convoluted, especially if theyre all out concurrently.

Which is why I don't see a JLA movie being made when WB are concentrating on their solo Batman and Superman movies.

To even consider what happens after a JL movie feels silly to me because the chance of even getting to a JLA movie seems very distant.

But WB did want Green Lantern to be part of a shared universe, when it wanted to keep Batman and Superman separate. WB would want to explore all their options. There was talk of not including Superman and Batman in a JL movie...

I think it would already be confusing to have 2 Supermen and 2 Batmen. To feel obliged to have 2 Wonder Women, 2 Flashes, 2 Aquamen etc. just to keep it all separate won't make it less confusing. Plus, it would be difficult to even find 1 Wonder Woman actor, much less 2.

It's highly optimistic to think this will all come together in a neat fashion anyway. Or at all. I don't think WB know what to do with it all. We saw that with JL Mortal and it hasn't cleared up since then, it's only gotten worse.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Like i was saying marvel studios has done a great job letting people know who is in their universe and who isn't. They've spent 5 years introducing all the players over what 4 or 5 movies?

You can practically go up to any stranger and they could tell you it's iron man, thor, cap america, hulk in the avengers. Marvel went out its way to avoid confusion and separate its properties from the ones owned by other studios.

Very few people would expect spider-man to show up in the avengers.

 

[Willi Berg]

Why not just copy what they did with The Avengers?

Make MOS the 1st Iron Man movie, reboot Batman so the 1st of that series is in between MOS & MOS2. Have MOS2 or the Batman movie introduce the other JL characters and possibly having a Flash movie after that. Then make the JL movie. Simple.

Keeps the continuity and keeps fans happy at the same time, also no confusion for the audience.

Because Snyder believes that he gets to keep MOS separate from a JL movie. The way Nolan was granted that with Batman. And now with Nolan involved in some capacity with Batman after he leaves as director, then he would probably want that freedom when continuing to help develop the Batman series. (And, say, if someone like Aronofsky is on the next Batman, he wouldn't want to worry about any JL tie-in either.)

I think the simplest thing is just to make those damn solo movies without having to launch them in a Justice League movie. Make the damn Flash movie. Make a Wonder Woman movie. WB need to stop being afraid of a female lead movie. Make an Aquaman movie. Stop worrying about a JL movie for now or introducing them in each other's movies. Just don't make movies that suck like Green Lantern.

 

[Rockstar]

Which is why I don't see a JLA movie being made when WB are concentrating on their solo Batman and Superman movies.

To even consider what happens after a JL movie feels silly to me because the chance of even getting to a JLA movie seems very distant.

But WB did want Green Lantern to be part of a shared universe, when it wanted to keep Batman and Superman separate. WB would want to explore all their options. There was talk of not including Superman and Batman in a JL movie...

I think it would already be confusing to have 2 Supermen and 2 Batmen. To feel obliged to have 2 Wonder Women, 2 Flashes, 2 Aquamen etc. just to keep it all separate won't make it less confusing. Plus, it would be difficult to even find 1 Wonder Woman actor, much less 2.

It's highly optimistic to think this will all come together in a neat fashion anyway. Or at all. I don't think WB know what to do with it all. We saw that with JL Mortal and it hasn't cleared up since then, it's only gotten worse.

Bingo.


I actually don't care to see JLA at this point.

IMO World's Finest has the potential to dethrone Avengers. The sheer iconic nature of Batman VS Superman is incredible. It owns any character on the Avengers roster.

World's Finest would allow for Luthor, Joker, Lois, Alfred, Jimmy, Perry and all the rest to have supporting roles.

That being said, the only major roadblock is the producer of Batman and Superman: http://splashpage.mtv.com/2010/06/04/christopher-nolan-superman-joker-batman-3/ saying that there won't be a Batman/Superman crossover.


It feels like WB is screwed with any decision they make at this point. It's a no win scenario.

 

[Willi Berg]

Bingo.


I actually don't care to see JLA at this point.

IMO World's Finest has the potential to dethrone Avengers. The sheer iconic nature of Batman VS Superman is incredible. It owns any character on the Avengers roster.

World's Finest would allow for Luthor, Joker, Lois, Alfred, Jimmy, Perry and all the rest to have supporting roles.

That being said, the only major roadblock is the producer of Batman and Superman: http://splashpage.mtv.com/2010/06/04/christopher-nolan-superman-joker-batman-3/ saying that there won't be a Batman/Superman crossover.


It feels like WB is screwed with any decision they make at this point. It's a no win scenario.

A World's Finest movie would be good but for some reason it feels like something that you would hear about as we head to the year 2020!

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

It's almost certainly not going to happen with Bale, unless Nolan has a huge change of heart.

With the next Batman, we don't know. If as rumoured Aronofsky is the forerunner with an Arkham style, and if WB want to do a crossover, he'd do it.

As for Snyder and Supernan all we know is that Man of Steel so far is unconnected to any other franchises. If there is a sequel, it will be interesting to see, considering WB want to have a Justice League movie out within half a decade.

 

[Rockstar]

Do they?

They did before Green Lantern bombed.


Things have changed since.