BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

[afan]

Start by changing the Batsuit/voices. Hint at Robin, reference someone like Mr Freeze..

But show this Batman is different by giving him a completely different personality. I think that's the most effective thing.

Make him SCARY. Not just 'kind of' scary, or a little unsettling. Make him a horror character who HAPPENS to be the good guy (and doesn't kill)

Long ears are best

What is the second picture from?

 

[afan]

Just wondering........just how long would it take for Batman to become "tired and weary"(which BTW for me would be never)........Bruce Wayne/Batman is an extrordinary individual, which more then makes up for his lack of any powers..........his will, and his dedication to carry out his oath would preclude ever becoming tired and weary.................but that being said "awhile" for me should be 15-20 years...putting a tired and weary Batman at about 45 years old.

 

[Herolee10]

Well if we go by realistic standards, someone in the line of Batman's work would suffer some pretty bad and long lasting injuries within less than half a decade's work of serious crime fighting and it just really depends on the canon and back story that they develop for Ben's batman in terms of the foes that he's already encountered and defeated.

Hell, one film with the Joker in Nolan's franchise left Batman forever scarred so one can imagine on the scars that Ben's Batman will have if he's already encountered some of his well known enemies in the past within the DCU's canon.

 

[afan]

Well if we go by realistic standards, someone in the line of Batman's work would suffer some pretty bad and long lasting injuries within less than half a decade's work of serious crime fighting and it just really depends on the canon and back story that they develop for Ben's batman in terms of the foes that he's already encountered and defeated.

Hell, one film with the Joker in Nolan's franchise left Batman forever scarred so one can imagine on the scars that Ben's Batman will have if he's already encountered some of his well known enemies in the past within the DCU's canon.

For me the phrase "tired and weary" is indicative more of an emotional state than physical.

 

[DChero]

Agreed. ^^

I just take it as him being in his prime, heh.

 

[Crimson King]

For me the phrase "tired and weary" is indicative more of an emotional state than physical.

But they were looking to cast an older actor, which kind of debunks that.

I haven't been around here--so sorry if this has been answered--but what affect will having an older Batman have on the JL franchise? Not gonna lie, I was disappointed to hear that they were going older with the character, mostly because I think it robs the JL movies of some longevity. Seems short-sighted.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

What is the second picture from?

DKSLaider's DeviantArt account.

I also like this pic.

 

[smallville fan]

For me the phrase "tired and weary" is indicative more of an emotional state than physical.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. This is a Batman who's seen some serious s**t. I hopefully believe he'll be physical enough for JL.

Hmm, maybe the whole "tired and weary" emotional state would eventually change by the end of the film when he's inspired by a young upstart named Superman doing the whole "Truth, Justice & The American Way" thing?

 

[afan]

But they were looking to cast an older actor, which kind of debunks that.

I haven't been around here--so sorry if this has been answered--but what affect will having an older Batman have on the JL franchise? Not gonna lie, I was disappointed to hear that they were going older with the character, mostly because I think it robs the JL movies of some longevity. Seems short-sighted.

I don't see how.........An emotionally drained Bruce Wayne/Batman would not occur overnight....it should only be the result of his crusade over many years....which of course would call for an older actor.

Again I loathe the idea of an emotionally disabled Batman......physically OK..I can live with that........but emotionally never.

 

[afan]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. This is a Batman who's seen some serious s**t. I hopefully believe he'll be physical enough for JL.

Hmm, maybe the whole "tired and weary" emotional state would eventually change by the end of the film when he's inspired by a young upstart named Superman doing the whole "Truth, Justice & The American Way" thing?

Respectfully.....don't like this either.......Batman needs no external inspiration.....his motivation is internal, unwavering and indomitable.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

The only external inspiration for Batman should be bats themselves

But Superman should make him realize that he should be more careful about judging people

 

[roach]

I don't think it would take long for Batman to be tired and weary. When I was in the Navy I would go on six month deployments and would be tired and weary after month 4. I think a guy who goes out and fights multiple crimes a night, sees an ever increasing gallery of rogues with few helpers on his side would grow tired and weary real quick.

 

[Crimson King]

^I don't doubt that at all. My beef is with his apparent age. Doesn't give the franchise a lot of room to grow.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I don't think it would take long for Batman to be tired and weary. When I was in the Navy I would go on six month deployments and would be tired and weary after month 4. I think a guy who goes out and fights multiple crimes a night, sees an ever increasing gallery of rogues with few helpers on his side would grow tired and weary real quick.

Yep. Speaking of which, Greenwood's Batman has that aged, world-weary quality. He's a highlight of YJ. Actually, the whole show was kind of its own highlight

 

[roach]

^I don't doubt that at all. My beef is with his apparent age. Doesn't give the franchise a lot of room to grow.

I don't know the idea that I got was we will have a Batman that is tired and battle weary. He is fighting to clean up a city that loves being dirty. For every criminal he puts away a dozen more take his place. Batman may have one or two helpers but that number is over shadowed by the number of villains that have popped up. I think we will see a Batman with no hope....and guess who stands for hope?

I think a lot of people were afraid that Superman would end up being taught by Batman but the comments about Batman lead me to believe it may be Batman that learns from Superman.

 

[Kane52630]

I hope when they introduce Batfleck, they wont rehash the origin with flashbacks. Instead they should have a small moment like this and move along...

 

[Crimson King]

I don't know the idea that I got was we will have a Batman that is tired and battle weary. He is fighting to clean up a city that loves being dirty. For every criminal he puts away a dozen more take his place. Batman may have one or two helpers but that number is over shadowed by the number of villains that have popped up. I think we will see a Batman with no hope....and guess who stands for hope?

I think a lot of people were afraid that Superman would end up being taught by Batman but the comments about Batman lead me to believe it may be Batman that learns from Superman.

I kind of assumed that Batman would be coming after Superman because of his apparent willful disregard for life in his battle with Zod. Batman would see him as a threat, which is also how I assumed they'd introduce Lex--as a person funding the rebuilding of Metropolis after the destruction. I didn't like how MoS ended, but this scenario would help to repair it some.

Superman helping out Batman seems like a not-so-good idea. Takes a lot of the focus off of Superman.

 

[X Knight]

a "tired and weary" Batman is essentially what we got in TDKR.

do you think there's a chance they are planning on keeping the Nolan films in this new continuity, albeit with a recast Batman?

I hope not. but, that thought crossed my mind when I read the tired and weary quote.

 

[Loki882]

I kind of assumed that Batman would be coming after Superman because of his apparent willful disregard for life in his battle with Zod. Batman would see him as a threat, which is also how I assumed they'd introduce Lex--as a person funding the rebuilding of Metropolis after the destruction. I didn't like how MoS ended, but this scenario would help to repair it some.

Superman helping out Batman seems like a not-so-good idea. Takes a lot of the focus off of Superman.

There was NO willful disregard for life on Superman's part, but I can see Batman mistakenly believing that they're was.

 

[Crimson King]

There was NO willful disregard for life on Superman's part, but I can see Batman mistakenly believing that they're was.

I disagree, but I think we've been over this before.

 

[Lencho01]

Part of me thinks his being tired and weary is going to be the reason for him being a *****e.

 

[MrGreen]

a "tired and weary" Batman is essentially what we got in TDKR.

do you think there's a chance they are planning on keeping the Nolan films in this new continuity, albeit with a recast Batman?

I hope not. but, that thought crossed my mind when I read the tired and weary quote.

Maybe they're "The-incredible-Hulk-ing" it. Its a tired and weary Batman that COULD be linked to Nolan's universe or not just like TIH was a reboot/sequel to Hulk.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

a "tired and weary" Batman is essentially what we got in TDKR.

do you think there's a chance they are planning on keeping the Nolan films in this new continuity, albeit with a recast Batman?

I hope not. but, that thought crossed my mind when I read the tired and weary quote.

No. They'll be introducing a Batman who is thematically linked to events that could have theoretically taken place, so as to not be a massive departure from what audiences have seen so recently and culture shock, given that the time difference is only 3 years- equal and smaller than the time gaps between the Chris Nolan films.

 

[Batmannerism]

a "tired and weary" Batman is essentially what we got in TDKR.

do you think there's a chance they are planning on keeping the Nolan films in this new continuity, albeit with a recast Batman?

I hope not. but, that thought crossed my mind when I read the tired and weary quote.

Fair comment, but the key with the upcoming iteration of Batman is age.
It's a lot easier to be fanatical when you're young, but age certainly starts
to drag one down a bit, Batfleck being 45, and let me tell you, after 40 things start to slow down a bit - not just in a physical sense, but your
beliefs about life in general don't seem so absolute.

When you hit your 40's it's like the days ahead may be less than the days behind (or in Batman's case, significantly less, given how dangerous his
life is), doubts start to creep in, "have I wasted my life ? have I made a difference ? " stuff like that, it probably starts to put cracks in BAtman's idealism. It's also much easier to be cynical as you get older, and cynicism
is what I'd expect to characterize Batfleck's interpretation.


So a slightly older and weary BAtman is a possibility that works. Bale's Batman was scarred by particular events (and particular injuries, reflecting Nolan's attempt to make it as realistic, as possible - remembering that realistic doesn't mean real)


Superman's idealism is a little different, considering he might be functionally immortal, there's always the promise of a better tomorrow. Not so for Bats.

I think it would be neat to see Supes learn a few things from BAts, maybe not become as cynical but get a more realistic view of the human race. At the same time, maybe Supes will rekindle some of Batman's hope and Bats
will see Supes as someone who can carry on the work of making the world a better place after he's gone (after all, Batman on his own is about protecting Gotham, but the JL is about protecting the world in general).

Hopefully, the DKR references were only suggestive of conflict, and they don't actually try and use Miller's DKR as source material - we've already had the retired Batman thing in TDKR, but also, DKR is about Bats and Supes relationship after decades of philosophical difference (which is why it works).

So, bring on a tired and world weary BAtman, but let's see him a little more hopeful at the end of the film.

peace.

 

[smallville fan]

Not sure what to say about this.