BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

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[The_Shadow]

Josh Holloway for Aquaman or Green Arrow?

 

[Marvin]

Josh Holloway for Aquaman or Green Arrow?

Amell does a fine enough job. I think anyways.

Aquaman has legs so that he can walk. He is not a mermaid.

Kryptonians are the equivalent. Same with most/all birds.

 

[InJustice]

Since when was Superman above people plotting behind his back? Lex has made a living out of it. Am I to presume you think it's impossible for the likes of Bruce Wayne to slip through the cracks and salvage Kryptonian architecture for future manipulation?

Ok, why does anyone go anywhere new? Either because it is an actual destination, or it leads to an intended destination. Whichever it is, any number of scenarios can be created to naturally place him in that area.

The trap is literally invisible and undetectable. I'm not seeing these obvious warning signs you're talking about.

Batman doesn't have to be immediately seen. In any case, it doesn't matter as it would be too late. The very fact Batman is in the same room would indicate the trap had already taken place.

You're talking about a Superman with X-Ray vision, there's no way Batman would be left in plain sight when Superman can simply see him.

To display Batman's preparation and intelligence, show him training himself to breathe in Krypton's atmosphere. So he builds the room and has to continuously enter it, pass out coughing like Superman, have Alfred drag him out, recover, and then do it again.

You do realize Faora and Jor-El both suggested how Krypton's gravity was far stronger than Earth's? At least Superman can handle it because his body is originally of Kryptonian descent (born in Krypton with no problem, yet Martha said that Clark had trouble breathing as a child). Batman trying to train himself would simply be suicide due to his human composition.

Ok, and?

Where does this fit into the suggestion Batman would eventually explore Superman's cause for being so super, via thorough examinations of several scientific hypotheses?

Because it's not simply atmospheric chemistry that gives Superman his powers. It's a mix of both atmosphere and yellow sun light. Therefore, it's as simple as Batman testing out a Kryptonian specimen to see how it derives its powers.

 

[Wise]

Josh Holloway for Aquaman or Green Arrow?

He'd make a fantastic Ollie. His character in Lost was alot like Ollie in many ways. Sarcastic, gruff, resourceful, rouguishly charming

 

[Jekecy]

You're talking about a Superman with X-Ray vision, there's no way Batman would be left in plain sight when Superman can simply see him.

No way, as in 'no way can X-Rays be blocked' type of no way?

 

[Lencho01]

Cool art, but weird story...

http://moonheadpress.blogspot.mx/2014/01/gods-end.html

 

[InJustice]

No way, as in 'no way can X-Rays be blocked' type of no way?

Again, how would Batman know how to stop X-Ray Vision? Or even better, how does Batman know Superman has X-Ray Vision? There's nothing that says X-Rays can be stopped in terms of the Man of Steel universe (I'm not saying using lead is not a possibility, what I'm saying is that the knowledge that X-Ray Vision can be stopped isn't available yet).

 

[Wise]

Again, how would Batman know how to stop X-Ray Vision? Or even better, how does Batman know Superman has X-Ray Vision? There's nothing that says X-Rays can be stopped in terms of the Man of Steel universe (I'm not saying using lead is not a possibility, what I'm saying is that the knowledge that X-Ray Vision can be stopped isn't available yet).

He may not know. But he can certainly hypothesize. He's Batman.

 

[InJustice]

He may not know. But he can certainly hypothesize. He's Batman.

But how can he hypothesize without coming off as Bat-God? If we're talking during that same framework that Jekecy brought up, then Batman cannot realistically prepare himself for Superman having X-Ray Vision, because he cannot know that Superman possesses such a power.

 

[MrsKent26]

Since when was Superman above people plotting behind his back? Lex has made a living out of it. Am I to presume you think it's impossible for the likes of Bruce Wayne to slip through the cracks and salvage Kryptonian architecture for future manipulation?

I definitely think people could get away with plotting behind his back. He can't hear everything all the time. But It would be reasonable, after learning he has this weakness to atmospheric changes, that he would pay attention to what becomes of any Kryptonian tech left over and what people are doing with it. And it would also make sense for him to pay particular attention to what Batman is up to if they are at odds. It's all about what he chooses to pay attention to.

Ok, why does anyone go anywhere new? Either because it is an actual destination, or it leads to an intended destination. Whichever it is, any number of scenarios can be created to naturally place him in that area.

That's kinda vague. Why would superman walk into a random chamber of sorts?

The trap is literally invisible and undetectable. I'm not seeing these obvious warning signs you're talking about.

It is detectable if Superman thinks at all about what people might be doing with Kryptonian tech.

Batman doesn't have to be immediately seen. In any case, it doesn't matter as it would be too late. The very fact Batman is in the same room would indicate the trap had already taken place.

I suppose so.

 

[Jekecy]

Again, how would Batman know how to stop X-Ray Vision? Or even better, how does Batman know Superman has X-Ray Vision? There's nothing that says X-Rays can be stopped in terms of the Man of Steel universe (I'm not saying using lead is not a possibility, what I'm saying is that the knowledge that X-Ray Vision can be stopped isn't available yet).

Ok, let's assume for a moment Batman is blatantly seen by Superman before walking into a room (it begs the question why he would X-Ray everything, but moving on). Is there any reason why Superman would not go to meet him? Supes has no inclination something terrible would come from it. Especially since Batman would be seen as a mere human. Again, how does one premeditate the undetectable? The second he's inside a manipulated room, it's way too late anyway.

 

[Wise]

But how can he hypothesize without coming off as Bat-God? If we're talking during that same framework that Jekecy brought up, then Batman cannot realistically prepare himself for Superman having X-Ray Vision, because he cannot know that Superman possesses such a power.

SvB takes place after MoS. it's conceivable that Bruce has surveillance and recon from Superman's exploits. It's also conceivable that during one of these exploits Superman exhibits evidence of being able to look through objects.

Or Lois comes out and writes about it like in 78.

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

Cool art, but weird story...

http://moonheadpress.blogspot.mx/2014/01/gods-end.html

 

[InJustice]

SvB takes place after MoS. it's conceivable that Bruce has surveillance and recon from Superman's exploits. It's also conceivable that during one of these exploits Superman exhibits evidence of being able to look through objects.

Or Lois comes out and writes about it like in 78.

How does Wayne set up surveillance without being detected? Especially considering that in MOS, Superman was able to see which Government drones were tracking him down and destroy them. Would that also not happen with Wayne's drone/surveillance tech?

 

[Masone]

You're talking about a Superman with X-Ray vision, there's no way Batman would be left in plain sight when Superman can simply see him.



You do realize Faora and Jor-El both suggested how Krypton's gravity was far stronger than Earth's? At least Superman can handle it because his body is originally of Kryptonian descent (born in Krypton with no problem, yet Martha said that Clark had trouble breathing as a child). Batman trying to train himself would simply be suicide due to his human composition.

There's no reason to believe that a Superman "as weak as human" would be able to survive that anymore than an actual human would.

It's like saying our air and atmosphere is unique to us(humans), it's not. It's simply the atmospheric composition of Earth, we're just on it and have gotten used to it.

It's the same with Krypton. It's not "Kryptonian atmosphere(unique to Kryptonians)", it's atmosphere that Kryptonians have gotten used to. There is nothing in Superman's genes that would preclude him from this "suicide" you speak of, so the fact that he didn't die means that Batman could survive as well. It's not like their atmosphere is like the moon where you need a full suit, it's obvious it supports breathing and living. Kryptonians aren't different from Humans in that regard. They had to wear suits in space just like humans.

This is where the training comes in. He continuously puts himself through that hell to adapt to Krypton's atmosphere.

 

[Wise]

How does Wayne set up surveillance without being detected? Especially considering that in MOS, Superman was able to see which Government drones were tracking him down and destroy them. Would that also not happen with Wayne's drone/surveillance tech?

Who's to say Waynetech didn't build those military drones? Or that Bruce is able to hack into those military drones.

It's Superman. Even if Batman doesn't have surveillance the world's media and every schmuck with a camera phone will do his work for him any time Superman is seen in public.

 

[Lencho01]

There's a Batman one too...

http://moonheadpress.blogspot.mx/2013/11/the-deal.html

 

[Jekecy]

I definitely think people could get away with plotting behind his back. He can't hear everything all the time. But It would be reasonable, after learning he has this weakness to atmospheric changes, that he would pay attention to what becomes of any Kryptonian tech left over and what people are doing with it. And it would also make sense for him to pay particular attention to what Batman is up to if they are at odds. It's all about what he chooses to pay attention to.

What he pays attention to is only valuable if it's not hidden. We're talking about a figure who is known for secrecy and a master tactician.

That's kinda vague. Why would superman walk into a random chamber of sorts?

It's a room with an altered atmosphere. That could look like anything. It could be anything. What would be so difficult in creating a scenario where Supes is in any specified area? He could be investigating a trail of clues which lead there, he could be meeting someone for an appointment, he could be exploring a point of interest...the number of possibilities are endless.

It is detectable if Superman thinks at all about what people might be doing with Kryptonian tech.

That's not a sign of detection at all. Detection requires preemptive knowledge in an inevitably, given a sequence of events. What you're describing is just cautionary behavior. It's akin to not going outside in fear of being stabbed or getting hit by a car. Sure you're going to be successful in avoiding both those things, but on the other hand you're secluded. Supes is obviously not going that route, which means he will always be susceptible to this sort of attack. And that's purely because there is no way to know (for sure) whether any given space is tampered with.

Fortunately for him, it's unlikely. Unfortunately for him, there's also this x-factor called Batman.

 

[Jekecy]

Cool art, but weird story...

http://moonheadpress.blogspot.mx/2014/01/gods-end.html

That first page reminds me of Millar/Vaughn's pitched ending for their Superman trilogy. Most fans detested it, but with the talent involved and the unconventional themes they planned to introduce, I wouldn't have minded seeing it come to fruition.

 

[Wise]

Personally I'm not a fan of the chamber idea. it reeks of saturday morning cartoon super-villainy.

A strategist like Batman wouldn't put all his eggs into a plan like that when he knows there's no way to guarantee that Superman would even be stupid enough to take the bait. The only way to guarantee that he'd go in there would be to put a hostage in there which Bruce would never do... UNLESS the hostage is Bruce Wayne.

 

[InJustice]

There's no reason to believe that a Superman "as weak as human" would be able to survive that anymore than an actual human would.

It's like saying our air and atmosphere is unique to us(humans), it's not. It's simply the atmospheric composition of Earth, we're just on it and have gotten used to it.

It's the same with Krypton. It's not "Kryptonian atmosphere(unique to Kryptonians)", it's atmosphere that Kryptonians have gotten used to. There is nothing in Superman's genes that would preclude him from this "suicide" you speak of, so the fact that he didn't die means that Batman could survive as well. It's not like their atmosphere is like the moon where you need a full suit, it's obvious it supports breathing and living. Kryptonians aren't different from Humans in that regard. They had to wear suits in space just like humans.

This is where the training comes in. He continuously puts himself through that hell to adapt to Krypton's atmosphere.

Except the movie already showed an infant Kal-El that had adapted to Krypton's atmosphere after he was born. That by itself means that Superman had experienced something that humans hadn't: he was already used to Krypton's atmosphere before he was sent to Earth. Therefore, it makes no sense to conclude that because a Kryptonian was re-adapting to Earth's atmosphere, that it means that humans can (esp. when they haven't yet experienced what Kal-El had. Otherwise, why would Faora give a **** about Lois's ability to breathe when she could've just forced her to adapt? That means there's something inherent about Krypton's atmosphere that humans can't adapt to, or is extremely difficult to adapt to).

By seeing what Faora did to Lois prior to meeting Zod, I find it hard to believe that Batman can survive Kryptonian atmosphere.

 

[InJustice]

Who's to say Waynetech didn't build those military drones? Or that Bruce is able to hack into those military drones.

That would depend on what type of company Snyder's Wayne Enterprises is.

It's Superman. Even if Batman doesn't have surveillance the world's media and every schmuck with a camera phone will do his work for him any time Superman is seen in public.

Except Wayne has morals. I highly doubt he would go full-NSA without seeing the benefits and demerits of doing so. At least in TDK, he went full-NSA out of desperation to catch Joker. If he sees a superpowered god, going full-NSA isn't going to help him that much.

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

There's a Batman one too...

http://moonheadpress.blogspot.mx/2013/11/the-deal.html

DUDE! you don't even know! when i first read that i had to sit silently where i was for a half hour.